[TV] Ms. Marvel

[Lady Atia]

I watched episode 3 and I really really hope it's a vision and not her stuck in the past. What's next? She is actually a manifestation of Aisha but somehow due to <insert bs reasoning here> she lost her memories and everything.
Marvel might not go that route, because they generally do shows decently instead of the uber cliches like "It was all a dream" and "It was all due to memory loss"

Tbf I think it's actually her terrigen vision instead of time travel. They will make us think it's timetravel stuff 'till the end of the next episode where they reveal that when the bangle broke she went into terrigenesis, hence the vision of the partition. They even said again that her powers are gene based and that "if Thor would have landed in the Himalaya Mountains they would have called him a djinn." Iirc in the comics, the Inhumans had Attilan hidden there, so that's another tease for them.

Also, it looks like the clandestine want to start an incursion between 616 and the nuur dimension?

[JDL49]

Tbf I think it's actually her terrigen vision instead of time travel.

They have made it clear that inhumans are not going to be used for the forseeable future so that doesn't make sense.

[Lady Atia]

They have made it clear that inhumans are not going to be used for the forseeable future so that doesn't make sense.

Multiverse of Madness literally had Black Bolt in it.

[JDL49]

Multiverse of Madness literally had Black Bolt in it.

And he was not in this universe. Inhumans in the lesser class universes are obviously another matter.
Kamala is in the main universe and there are no inhumans here yet.

[Snuke]

And he was not in this universe.

The only character who didn’t exist in different universes was America. The rest were variants.

[Lady Atia]

And he was not in this universe. Inhumans in the lesser class universes are obviously another matter.
Kamala is in the main universe and there are no inhumans here yet.

Depends on the canonicity of AoS tbh.

Also, it's rumoured that we will see the Universal Inhumans during "The Marvels".

[Izthak]

And he was not in this universe. Inhumans in the lesser class universes are obviously another matter.
Kamala is in the main universe and there are no inhumans here yet.

That we know of. They could be quietly living on the moon still in the MCU.

As for where I think the show is going, my guess is she is in the past, and it's going to be her who saves her grandmother with the "trail of stars." She'll probably also meet her great grandmother who, unable to use the bracelet any better than the other ClanDestines, gives it to Kamala who uses both of them to transport Aisha safely through to Noor (hence her disappearance). Kamala then makes sure her grandmother gets Aisha's version of the bracelet before somehow getting transported back to the present, thus maintaining the circle of events and not causing any paradoxes other than the predestined one that already existed.

Seems the most likely way things will go given how they kept repeatedly alluding to her grandmother's story without showing any flashbacks of it. It also demonstrates the power of having two of the bracelets instead of one, leading Kamala on a quest to find the original partner bracelet.

[JDL49]

Depends on the canonicity of AoS tbh.

Also, it's rumoured that we will see the Universal Inhumans during "The Marvels".

As much as I love AoS it looks like it isn't canon to the main MCU universe and given that, frankly
I wouldn't expect Inhumans in the main MCU before Mutants. Since we aren't all that close to
getting the X-Men (not any earlier than 2025 for a movie) I just can not see any intro of Inhumans
to the primary MCU Universe for at least 5 or 6 years. YMMV and non main universes are another
matter.

[Wonderment2]

This show is moving at a breakneck speed.

It's like entirely new rosters of characters are introduced each episode.

- - - Updated - - -

The only character who didn’t exist in different universes was America. The rest were variants.

Yeah but it doesn't mean the same people are in ever universe?

America is, so far, the only person with no other counterparts but there's perfectly possible other universes were there isn't a tony stark or something.

Pretty sure green goblin states there's no Osborn in the MCU proper

[Endus]

This show is moving at a breakneck speed.

It's like entirely new rosters of characters are introduced each episode.

I have zero familiarity with the character in the comics; I'm probably due to re-up to Marvel Unlimited sometime soon and I'll probably run through them then. Was the Red Dagger a "thing", there, though?

If it is, kudos for fitting them in even if it took a bit (might have wanted to have a side-story for about 5 minutes an episode, or after-credits, just to introduce them and their operations in Pakistan before this episode, but that's a really minor pacing concern).

If not, they're SUPER shoehorned in, especially when the older master dies nearly immediately. There's the pacing concern. That's not about what's here, it's just about shifting some things around so it's not just all INFODUMP OH GOD FIGHT ARGH BLARGH I'M DEAD.

Yeah but it doesn't mean the same people are in ever universe?

America is, so far, the only person with no other counterparts but there's perfectly possible other universes were there isn't a tony stark or something.

Pretty sure green goblin states there's no Osborn in the MCU proper

There's no Norman Osborn, Tech Mogul in the MCU proper.

There might be a Norman Osborn: Hot Dog Vendor in the MCU, making a decent wage with his cart in Times Square or something. Could be hilarious to have the MCU Peter grab a chili dog on the swing one day and go "uhhh, what?" I'd get Defoe to come in to be on-screen for three seconds and not give Peter time to go back and check.

We can also presume there's universes where Person A doesn't exist because they got hit by a car in a tragic accident when they were 4 years old or whatever, too. The universes twist and weave and where they diverge, they tend to find a way to echo each other, even without the TVA.

That's not explicitly stated, but it seems pretty obvious to me, at least. That's how variants come to be.

[everydaygamer]

Red Dagger was from the comics but there he was just a vigilante who fought in defense of the people.

[HeatherRae]

I really enjoyed Episode 4, but I need them to stop leaving me on cliffhangers T_T

[JDL49]

I really enjoyed Episode 4, but I need them to stop leaving me on cliffhangers T_T

Good grief that isn't a cliffhanger ! It's just that once they did the first couple of intro eps this was no longer traditional episodic television where you typically come to a pause spot and some of sort of resolution after each episode. Rather it's a limited series and the content is more compact at times.

[Ielenia]

We can also presume there's universes where Person A doesn't exist because they got hit by a car in a tragic accident when they were 4 years old or whatever, too. The universes twist and weave and where they diverge, they tend to find a way to echo each other, even without the TVA.

That's not explicitly stated, but it seems pretty obvious to me, at least. That's how variants come to be.

But they can also literally not exist. Using your "Person A" example, say Howard Stark dies when he's a teenager in universe 1337, before he ever has a son or even met his future wife. That means Tony Stark would simply not exist at all in said universe. It wouldn't be a case of "said person existed, but they died". There would be no records of the character we know as "Tony Stark" ever existing.

An example of that here is WoW's alternate Draenor. Garrosh simply did not exist in that reality because Grommash's wife died before she could get pregnant, if memory serves.

[Endus]

But they can also literally not exist. Using your "Person A" example, say Howard Stark dies when he's a teenager in universe 1337, before he ever has a son or even met his future wife. That means Tony Stark would simply not exist at all in said universe. It wouldn't be a case of "said person existed, but they died". There would be no records of the character we know as "Tony Stark" ever existing.

An example of that here is WoW's alternate Draenor. Garrosh simply did not exist in that reality because Grommash's wife died before she could get pregnant, if memory serves.

From what I recall, the Marvel multiverse tends towards certain patterns, it's not a truly chaotic system, and it's not due to things like the TVA. If Howard Stark died before Tony existed, some other family of Starks might have a kid they named Tony, even if that's not something that happens anywhere else. Certain notes recur, and where Tony Stark truly doesn't exist, you generally still get an Iron Man analog.

The most obvious example of this is the Spider-folks, though there's an additional layer to that nonsense.

This isn't a requirement of multiversal structure, so you're generally correct, but in the Marvel Multiverse specifically, things trend differently.

[Lady Atia]

From what I recall, the Marvel multiverse tends towards certain patterns, it's not a truly chaotic system, and it's not due to things like the TVA. If Howard Stark died before Tony existed, some other family of Starks might have a kid they named Tony, even if that's not something that happens anywhere else. Certain notes recur, and where Tony Stark truly doesn't exist, you generally still get an Iron Man analog.

The most obvious example of this is the Spider-folks, though there's an additional layer to that nonsense.

This isn't a requirement of multiversal structure, so you're generally correct, but in the Marvel Multiverse specifically, things trend differently.

Yeah - that's why I hate the idea of using the DC CW structure for the MCU multiverse where every earth only has a handful of (different) superheroes. Main Earth (or 616 in the case of the MCU) should have EVERY superhero that is available from the comics, and variant earths should have exactly that - variants of the main earth's superheroes, stuff like Spider-Gwen who dies on 616, or genderswapped variants. Regarding the Green Goblin - it's highly possible that Oscorp may not exist, but Norman may still be alive and just not a public personality yet.

[Izthak]

Multiverses, as presented in things like this, are ridiculous. I'm not sure why you're trying to convince yourselves that you're somehow making them more believable when they're beyond unbelievable to begin with. There's just no way that they would have such few changes between them. If Nog the Caveman decided to mate with Tooga instead of Hubi, or even just took a microsecond longer to breed with Tooga, the entire population of the planet would be different with completely different evolutionary paths taken. Worse, if the very first protein strand that formed in the primordial goop spun clockwise instead of counter-clockwise that one time, life may never have formed to begin with. And lifeless, empty voids and barren rocks would be the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of universes in a multiverse.

But not in the MCU, no sir. In the MCU, most universes followed a similar path up until about 10 years ago, give or take. Save for the ones that somehow became animated universes, or universes composed of sentient paint, both of which are totally plausible and believable (but not whatever aspect of them that you're arguing over right now; that goes Too Far™ apparently).

It's one of those things where you just accept the stupidity of it or you don't. Trying to rationalize it is already doomed to failure. I mean, the fact that any universe counts itself as anything other than "1" is ridiculous in and of itself.

[Endus]

Multiverses, as presented in things like this, are ridiculous. I'm not sure why you're trying to convince yourselves that you're somehow making them more believable when they're beyond unbelievable to begin with. There's just no way that they would have such few changes between them. If Nog the Caveman decided to mate with Tooga instead of Hubi, or even just took a microsecond longer to breed with Tooga, the entire population of the planet would be different with completely different evolutionary paths taken. Worse, if the very first protein strand that formed in the primordial goop spun clockwise instead of counter-clockwise that one time, life may never have formed to begin with. And lifeless, empty voids and barren rocks would be the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of universes in a multiverse.

But not in the MCU, no sir. In the MCU, most universes followed a similar path up until about 10 years ago, give or take. Save for the ones that somehow became animated universes, or universes composed of sentient paint, both of which are totally plausible and believable (but not whatever aspect of them that you're arguing over right now; that goes Too Far™ apparently).

It's one of those things where you just accept the stupidity of it or you don't. Trying to rationalize it is already doomed to failure. I mean, the fact that any universe counts itself as anything other than "1" is ridiculous in and of itself.

Because the Marvel Multiverse isn't everything that exists.

Marvel's cosmology extends to the Omniverse, which includes everything. It includes the real world, where I'm typing this right now. It includes DC comics universes. It includes Lord of the Rings. It includes the Dune saga. It includes My Little Pony. And so on. Literally all things.

The Marvel Multiverse is just that one bit that behaves a certain way and is the focus of Marvel comics. And narratively, there's reasons why the Marvel Multiverse is that way; it's intentional design, not random chance.

[HeatherRae]

Good grief that isn't a cliffhanger ! It's just that once they did the first couple of intro eps this was no longer traditional episodic television where you typically come to a pause spot and some of sort of resolution after each episode. Rather it's a limited series and the content is more compact at times.

Listen, I wasn't done watching ok! I need MORE. :-P

[Logwyn]

They have made it clear that inhumans are not going to be used for the forseeable future so that doesn't make sense.

Ms. Marvel isn't an inhuman?