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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradur View Post
    Good argumentation my man. As good as FFXIV-Endgame i would nearly say...
    Everything you are talking about takes a few hours.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  2. #202
    Well, Aradur is *technically* right, but it's not really relevant in the scope of actual gameplay.

    Yes, the relic weapon grinds can suck, but they're not BiS until a specific point in the expansion and aren't necessary by any means.

    Yes, the "relic" crafting tool grinds can suck, but they're pretty much just 100% for showing off. You don't need them for a darn thing, and you can make the best stuff yourself or buy it off the MB anyway.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradur View Post
    As someone playing WoW since Vanilla Beta and trying to get into FFXIV: No. The combat is just awful, the mechanics are awful and clunky and the endgame content ist boring/asia-grind-style². If you like WoW and how it handles endgame you will not enjoy FFXIV Endgame.
    WoW is more Asia-style grind than FFXIV. Tf are you talking about.

  4. #204
    I love XIV, so what I'm about to say is not a criticism. The toxic positivity crowd will feel otherwise.

    XIV is two games mashed into one:

    1) 5, 100+ hour single-player RPGs with a solid amount of good content, and a bunch of chores you may or may not like. In experiencing this part of the game, you may wonder why you pay a subscription at all... because you can have the same experience in another Final Fantasy without one. These games are built on a foundation of a game developed in 2006 and gradually improved on. Regardless of what anyone else says, like WoW, there is nothing modern or elegant about the gameplay. It's still fun. I think old Tomb Raider and Resident Evil have fun gameplay. That's just the way it is... as it a game it feels old now. This is probably everything you want to skip.

    2) There is a MMORPG tacked on to the end of each of the 5 games. If you're just starting, that's a lot of content to digest if you can find other willing participants to do no-echo, high difficulty runs. If you're a streamer you can make this look super easy with a horde of people eager to be on the same screen as you. For everyone else, you'll probably wait 45 min in queue to play a nerfed version of the legacy content. For the active expansion, there's a lot of fun raiding to do. Your enjoyment will vary based on who you play with. The XIV community will tell you they're more positive and understanding than any other MMO... this is the same thing as interviewing for a new job and the HR coordinator telling you "We're just a big family here!" ... it's a red flag - the XIV raiding community is just as BS as everywhere else, and it's all about finding the *right* people. I found the right people in WoW, and the right people in XIV.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    I love XIV, so what I'm about to say is not a criticism. The toxic positivity crowd will feel otherwise.

    XIV is two games mashed into one:

    1) 5, 100+ hour single-player RPGs with a solid amount of good content, and a bunch of chores you may or may not like. In experiencing this part of the game, you may wonder why you pay a subscription at all... because you can have the same experience in another Final Fantasy without one. These games are built on a foundation of a game developed in 2006 and gradually improved on. Regardless of what anyone else says, like WoW, there is nothing modern or elegant about the gameplay. It's still fun. I think old Tomb Raider and Resident Evil have fun gameplay. That's just the way it is... as it a game it feels old now. This is probably everything you want to skip.

    2) There is a MMORPG tacked on to the end of each of the 5 games. If you're just starting, that's a lot of content to digest if you can find other willing participants to do no-echo, high difficulty runs. If you're a streamer you can make this look super easy with a horde of people eager to be on the same screen as you. For everyone else, you'll probably wait 45 min in queue to play a nerfed version of the legacy content. For the active expansion, there's a lot of fun raiding to do. Your enjoyment will vary based on who you play with. The XIV community will tell you they're more positive and understanding than any other MMO... this is the same thing as interviewing for a new job and the HR coordinator telling you "We're just a big family here!" ... it's a red flag - the XIV raiding community is just as BS as everywhere else, and it's all about finding the *right* people. I found the right people in WoW, and the right people in XIV.
    I can't imagine anyone seriously saying you are wrong, but I do think you are going a bit far by claiming that the raiding community is the same in both games. You aren't wrong that people overstate the lack of toxicity in FF14, but I still think its much better. A lot of this isn't because of the community as much as because of the structure of raiding and the tools around raiding making it a lot easier to get away from people.

    That said, I've learned to try not to scare people off about the big MSQ. Some people I thought would love the MSQ hated it and some I thought would hate it loved it. It's sort of unpredictable. Look at Preach. He openly laughed at and mocked the idea that he would get into the story and then he become the biggest fan of the story. As often as that happens, someone who loves stories and even FF games finds it a huge slog. I usually just tell people that if they like the game but are feeling like its a slog, skip ARR, watch a recap, and pick up at Heavensward.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    . this is the same thing as interviewing for a new job and the HR coordinator telling you "We're just a big family here!" ... it's a red flag - the XIV raiding community is just as BS as everywhere else, and it's all about finding the *right* people. I found the right people in WoW, and the right people in XIV.
    of course there is toxicity in FF. that being said, its NO WHERE near as rampant as it is in wow raiding scene.

    I've played both games for a very long time, since launch of both actually, and raided on both in both pugs and statics/guilds. Wanna know the last time I met toxic people in wow? When I tried tanking a couple of months ago. Havent really played much since. Wanna know the last time I met toxic people in FF? honestly I dont even remember..the only time I remember is in a heavensward extreme trials +6 years ago.

  7. #207
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    I skipped a large portion of the story. It never got better for me until ShB and EW, otherwise I wouldn’t be playing right now.

    That said, do try to ask for advice in the game, or friends. If you don’t mind spoilers tell your friends ahead of time so they fully explain mechanics. Level another job after you skip for a good learning curve on mechanics.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Aradur View Post
    As someone playing WoW since Vanilla Beta and trying to get into FFXIV: No. The combat is just awful, the mechanics are awful and clunky and the endgame content ist boring/asia-grind-style². If you like WoW and how it handles endgame you will not enjoy FFXIV Endgame.
    Tell us you've never played a decent amount of this game without telling us you've never played a decent amount of this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradur View Post
    Getting the best gathering/profession-Tools = Farm the same Orechunks literaly thousands of time, making the same shit from literally the same gather materials thousand of times to trade it in
    Getting the best weapons/upgrades = Farm this boring PoS-Warfront-Thing for weeks/months and do the same shit over and over and over and over again to get the mats you need to upgrade it.

    == Asia Style grind. No thanks, i'll pass.
    First off, you're legit talking about the Relic weapons, which is designed from the start to be an expansion long event for players that allows them to get something shiny for all their work. The whole POINT of these things was to give the players that grind IF they wanted it because if you'd actually played the game otherwise, you notice that nothing else in 14 has that kind of grind to get ANYWHERE with it. What's more is the fact that, guess what? These don't just die off once the expansion is over and you can't ever get it if you decided to play after. Oh! And nearly all the steps are something a bit more stimulating then 'Go give me nearly 5000 Apexis Crystals'.

    Second off, What's the thing that's common to do in end game raiding for the best gear and the best chance to complete mythic content in WoW again? Split-runs, I think it's called? Where you've gotta go into raids with similar armored characters and funnel all the gear into your best players and this often leaves you running the same raid multiple times, over and over, to the point where it actually stops the world first race because the players are having to do another split-run? Yeah... congrats, the game you've been playing since Beta is doing the same thing it's been doing since WoD now, asking you to spend weeks/months doing the same shit over and over again to get what you need to upgrade.

    Third and Finally, You aren't an 'Elite' for playing a game since Beta. Hell, you're not even special. You just happened to be around at the time and got lucky to get into a game when it was at it's most broken. All you're telling us right now by claiming that 'I've played since Beta!' is how much time, effort, and money you've pushed into the game that, especially in the last several years, has shown not only to NOT care for it's players but also belongs to a company that has shown it regards you little more than a walking ATM. You must feel so proud.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Second off, What's the thing that's common to do in end game raiding for the best gear and the best chance to complete mythic content in WoW again? Split-runs, I think it's called? Where you've gotta go into raids with similar armored characters and funnel all the gear into your best players and this often leaves you running the same raid multiple times, over and over, to the point where it actually stops the world first race because the players are having to do another split-run? Yeah... congrats, the game you've been playing since Beta is doing the same thing it's been doing since WoD now, asking you to spend weeks/months doing the same shit over and over again to get what you need to upgrade.
    This has happened a lot in this thread, and I really feel compelled to point it out: The things described in this thread as being "the norm" in WoW raiding - split runs, addon programmers, etc - are things that generally only the most extreme world first guilds (which are - as often as not - actually businesses) engage in, and isn't typical of the experience of probably 99% of players or raiders.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    This has happened a lot in this thread, and I really feel compelled to point it out: The things described in this thread as being "the norm" in WoW raiding - split runs, addon programmers, etc - are things that generally only the most extreme world first guilds (which are - as often as not - actually businesses) engage in, and isn't typical of the experience of probably 99% of players or raiders.
    We can't help it if the wow people keep coming in here ranting and raving about how elite and hardcore end-mythic bosses are. That's why we keep having to talk about that garbage.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    We can't help it if the wow people keep coming in here ranting and raving about how elite and hardcore end-mythic bosses are. That's why we keep having to talk about that garbage.
    This is wildly dishonest.

    For one, the thread is about endgame raiding, so of course it steers in that direction. Acting as if people are being unreasonable by bringing it up is wholly dishonest.

    Second, even among mythic raiders, these practices are not typical. As I said, it's mostly the extreme high end people that even touch these things. Saying that it's "common" would be like me claiming that every XIV player uses ACT timers/callouts and mods their client to improve their DPS.

    I'd really rather not turn the thread into another stupid war about how WoW sucks and XIV is the holy grail or something, though.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    This has happened a lot in this thread, and I really feel compelled to point it out: The things described in this thread as being "the norm" in WoW raiding - split runs, addon programmers, etc - are things that generally only the most extreme world first guilds (which are - as often as not - actually businesses) engage in, and isn't typical of the experience of probably 99% of players or raiders.
    You're right. This IS the most extreme of raid guilds set up for their end game. But even if it's just for the 1%, it's still shows that something isn't quite right in WoW's system if this is the norm, which from what I've understood it has been for a number of expansions now.

    But the problem is that it's not just limited to just the end game, high end stuff. It's everywhere. How about earning flying in an expansion after Mists? Congrats, you've got to Explore all the zones, finish ALL the reputations, do the full story of another zone (Which in itself might take weeks to do depending on how it was designed), and more. The Rep grinds themselves used to have player power behind them, with some reps being BEHIND other reps in terms of unlocks. And isn't that even worse with how it works in Shadowlands with Covenants?

    Was the example I gave for the 1%? Sure. But that doesn't mean that same design for repetition isn't there for the rest of the game to demand your attention every day to keep up or to avoid FOMO.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    But the problem is that it's not just limited to just the end game, high end stuff. It's everywhere. How about earning flying in an expansion after Mists? Congrats, you've got to Explore all the zones, finish ALL the reputations, do the full story of another zone (Which in itself might take weeks to do depending on how it was designed), and more. The Rep grinds themselves used to have player power behind them, with some reps being BEHIND other reps in terms of unlocks. And isn't that even worse with how it works in Shadowlands with Covenants?
    Well, WoW's flying has always sort of sucked, but it's actually a lot better in Shadowlands. Just complete your main campaign and a small part of the follow-up campaign and you unlock it account-wide. I do despise how they constantly go through this cycle of, "Give stuff, take it away, give it back, take it away, etc." though. I never feel excited about my class in a new expansion anymore because I just assume that there will be nothing new. I'm just losing all my legendary effects and get to go farm them back again. (That's not really 100% true at all, but feels that way.)

    XIV granting flying on a per-zone basis by simply finishing and exploring that zone has always felt better.

    As for Covenants, I came into SL late, but they're basically a non-factor now. I hear they were really cumbersome early on, but now you're max renown by just leveling and doing basic quests, and you can swap covenants for free any time. Does that mean Blizz learned, or is it just late expansion rule-relaxation? Who knows!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Was the example I gave for the 1%? Sure. But that doesn't mean that same design for repetition isn't there for the rest of the game to demand your attention every day to keep up or to avoid FOMO.
    I honestly don't see that in current WoW at this time. You can log in, just hit some M+ once a week and get geared up pretty fast without any constant attention or "FOMO". It honestly feels no better or worse than logging in daily to hit Expert roulettes or something, the main difference is that the gearing curve is just steeper in WoW.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Well, WoW's flying has always sort of sucked, but it's actually a lot better in Shadowlands. Just complete your main campaign and a small part of the follow-up campaign and you unlock it account-wide. I do despise how they constantly go through this cycle of, "Give stuff, take it away, give it back, take it away, etc." though. I never feel excited about my class in a new expansion anymore because I just assume that there will be nothing new. I'm just losing all my legendary effects and get to go farm them back again. (That's not really 100% true at all, but feels that way.)

    XIV granting flying on a per-zone basis by simply finishing and exploring that zone has always felt better.

    As for Covenants, I came into SL late, but they're basically a non-factor now. I hear they were really cumbersome early on, but now you're max renown by just leveling and doing basic quests, and you can swap covenants for free any time. Does that mean Blizz learned, or is it just late expansion rule-relaxation? Who knows!

    - - - Updated - - -


    I honestly don't see that in current WoW at this time. You can log in, just hit some M+ once a week and get geared up pretty fast without any constant attention or "FOMO". It honestly feels no better or worse than logging in daily to hit Expert roulettes or something, the main difference is that the gearing curve is just steeper in WoW.
    That is better than what it's been before, but I also feel like in this particular instant for Shadowlands, it might have been Blizzard cutting their losses. As it is, there are a lot of folks who believe that the expansion itself is pretty much going to be ignored moving forward.

    I'll also say that I've not touched WoW since Mid BFA, so I don't know how it's handled now, but the gearing back then was atrocious with you spending all your time pushing M+ Keys to hopefully get better items, then gambling on your chest back at base, and then the gear you get might not even be better for you because of the Azarite abilities for your class being better on lower item level gear. There's a bit of a difference between the gearing curve being steeper and feeling like the game rolled dice for you and telling you 'You lose' no matter HOW much time you've put in to try and get ahead.

    And to comment on your previous post of the war of WoW VS 14, as far as it comes to me, I did try to give Wow the benefit of the doubt and do my best when it comes to my memories as someone who played it for YEARS. I loved the game, warts and all.

    But when it came down to it, the developers, systems, and overall community that has grown from WoW always made me feel horrible. I always felt pressured by the community to give my all and knock myself out in getting the highest gear or I was useless. The systems in play gave me a chance to get said highest gear, but only if I worked hard every day for hours to push myself up to that point. And the developers have shown themselves as people who don't care, focusing on money for money sake as we've seen in not just WoW, but also the other properties Blizzard are in charge of (Hi, Diablo Imortal).

    Now, is FF14 the best of the best? No. It's got a lot of problems in many of those same areas as WoW does. But in the end, I feel they do an overall better job of not only respecting my time, but do a better job of fostering a better community and do their best to fix a problem if it arises. In the little over two years I've been with the game, they've done more in their development time and in the game to make me feel like something more than just a walking wallet, and along with the story their game has told? That is something I'll always praise.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Now, is FF14 the best of the best? No. It's got a lot of problems in many of those same areas as WoW does. But in the end, I feel they do an overall better job of not only respecting my time, but do a better job of fostering a better community and do their best to fix a problem if it arises. In the little over two years I've been with the game, they've done more in their development time and in the game to make me feel like something more than just a walking wallet, and along with the story their game has told? That is something I'll always praise.
    Yeah, I still play both and appreciate what each of them are.

    I always felt like XIV was a better...what word do I use here..."whole" game. It feels like an entire world, with lots of stuff I want to do, characters I don't mind listening to (Sometimes!) and just a general atmosphere that I can appreciate hanging out in. That's not to say that the PvE content isn't great as well, it certainly is. XIV also generally respects my time more, except in a few areas.

    Contrast that to WoW which also has a world and - to be honest - a lot of stuff to do, but I just generally don't care about most of it. I won't claim it's a quality issue, it's just that I don't get into it very much. However, I do enjoy the overall gameplay feel and the enhanced PvE elements like Mythic+. I feel like I can sink my teeth into the PvE a little more in general. (XIV dungeons are much cooler thematically, but lets be honest about what the gameplay generally consists of.)

    All in all, I can alternate between the games as I see fit and have a great time in either. Never saw the need for a fight over em!

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    You're right. This IS the most extreme of raid guilds set up for their end game. But even if it's just for the 1%, it's still shows that something isn't quite right in WoW's system if this is the norm, which from what I've understood it has been for a number of expansions now.
    I mean, this COULD exist in FFXIV. The addon programming, the split runs, etc, since you can only fully gear up 2 jobs in the 16 weeks of Savage prior to Ultimate, and so on, and so forth. There's a couple reasons it doesn't:

    1) Comps aren't really a major thing in FFXIV. There's no fight where you *need* a, for example, RDM for Empower or some buff or something. As long as you stick with 2 tanks, 2 heals, 2 melee, 2 ranged, you're pretty much good. This happens because FFXIV designs around a tighter raid group of 8 players, and design is more homogenous over roles - IE, all tanks have an invulnerability, all heals have a major CD, non-greedy DPS all have pretty standardized raid debuffs on pretty standardized 2 minute CDs. There's also never a need to stack a particular class - in fact, that's usually a bad thing to have a duplicate job in FFXIV. So even with 2 jobs you can fully gear up in time, you can coordinate with your static to do so just by hitting all the raids weekly.

    2) Addons are less necessary because FFXIV has clear telegraphs and pretty strict scripts. I can't tell you how many fuzzy AoEs my raiders have died to in WoW because the graphic, while flashy, isn't very clear. Or how many times a wipe occurs because a spell-queue system pushes a particular boss ability to a bad timing. Or how many boss spells are instant cast with only a voice line to indicate it's happening. While WoW's raiding sound design is great and I raidlead based almost solely on voicelines, for some reason WoW raiders have evolved into playing with 0 sound and usually something on the second monitor while raiding (which is admittedly bizarre to me).

    3) FFXIV, in general, is proactive, while WoW is reactive. FFXIV is all about setting up for certain moments. WoW is often utter chaos and very variable from pull to pull. While FFXIV has random ground-based AoE in some dungeons, I've found in lots of trials and raids ground AoEs tend to be pattern-based as opposed to RNG.

  17. #217
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I mean, this COULD exist in FFXIV. The addon programming, the split runs, etc, since you can only fully gear up 2 jobs in the 16 weeks of Savage prior to Ultimate, and so on, and so forth. There's a couple reasons it doesn't:

    1) Comps aren't really a major thing in FFXIV. There's no fight where you *need* a, for example, RDM for Empower or some buff or something. As long as you stick with 2 tanks, 2 heals, 2 melee, 2 ranged, you're pretty much good. This happens because FFXIV designs around a tighter raid group of 8 players, and design is more homogenous over roles - IE, all tanks have an invulnerability, all heals have a major CD, non-greedy DPS all have pretty standardized raid debuffs on pretty standardized 2 minute CDs. There's also never a need to stack a particular class - in fact, that's usually a bad thing to have a duplicate job in FFXIV. So even with 2 jobs you can fully gear up in time, you can coordinate with your static to do so just by hitting all the raids weekly.

    2) Addons are less necessary because FFXIV has clear telegraphs and pretty strict scripts. I can't tell you how many fuzzy AoEs my raiders have died to in WoW because the graphic, while flashy, isn't very clear. Or how many times a wipe occurs because a spell-queue system pushes a particular boss ability to a bad timing. Or how many boss spells are instant cast with only a voice line to indicate it's happening. While WoW's raiding sound design is great and I raidlead based almost solely on voicelines, for some reason WoW raiders have evolved into playing with 0 sound and usually something on the second monitor while raiding (which is admittedly bizarre to me).

    3) FFXIV, in general, is proactive, while WoW is reactive. FFXIV is all about setting up for certain moments. WoW is often utter chaos and very variable from pull to pull. While FFXIV has random ground-based AoE in some dungeons, I've found in lots of trials and raids ground AoEs tend to be pattern-based as opposed to RNG.
    Just a small note, especially when it comes to engame raiding:

    Not just 2 melee, 2 ranged - you want 1 melee dps, 1 phys range dps, 1 magic dps and 1 other - if any of them is missing it results in 1% less damage for the group (the buff, buffing you for 1% each if you have a tank/heal/phys range/melee/magic dps)

    Also, you want to avoid multiple people per job as its worse for limit break gain (but this is minor compared to the other)

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    I honestly don't see that in current WoW at this time. You can log in, just hit some M+ once a week and get geared up pretty fast without any constant attention or "FOMO". It honestly feels no better or worse than logging in daily to hit Expert roulettes or something, the main difference is that the gearing curve is just steeper in WoW.
    This is pretty much spot on. I play MAYBE a grand total of 8 hours a week in WoW and I'm only ~6 ilvl behind my team. I am the lowest ilvl in the raid, that's true, but I also do like 2-3 keys a week and raid log. Literally that's it. I still post up 90%+ logs, and 99% by ilvl. My "weekly" chore list is more fun in WoW than FF14, I fucking hate capping tomes, but I like my character more in FF14.

    Just because you can grind keys for a mythically rare upgrade doesn't mean you should or have to. Play the game how you want and find like minded players and you'll have a great experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Tell us you've never played a decent amount of this game without telling us you've never played a decent amount of this game.
    Yeah, don't get me wrong I hate relic weapons. I hate that they're "usually" the coolest looking weapon and the least fun to acquire (I don't like grinding, as it doesn't respect my time), but that's super misleading for them to complain about it as the "best" weapon, when in reality it's hardly, and never during prog.

    Second off, What's the thing that's common to do in end game raiding for the best gear and the best chance to complete mythic content in WoW again? Split-runs, I think it's called? Where you've gotta go into raids with similar armored characters and funnel all the gear into your best players and this often leaves you running the same raid multiple times, over and over, to the point where it actually stops the world first race because the players are having to do another split-run? Yeah... congrats, the game you've been playing since Beta is doing the same thing it's been doing since WoD now, asking you to spend weeks/months doing the same shit over and over again to get what you need to upgrade
    This isn't common and especially not at any normal level. I've played in probably 6 different guilds all in the US top 20-100 rated over the last decade and I've done exactly 0 split runs my entire raiding career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    This is wildly dishonest.

    For one, the thread is about endgame raiding, so of course it steers in that direction. Acting as if people are being unreasonable by bringing it up is wholly dishonest.

    Second, even among mythic raiders, these practices are not typical. As I said, it's mostly the extreme high end people that even touch these things. Saying that it's "common" would be like me claiming that every XIV player uses ACT timers/callouts and mods their client to improve their DPS.

    I'd really rather not turn the thread into another stupid war about how WoW sucks and XIV is the holy grail or something, though.
    Bingo.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    This is wildly dishonest.

    For one, the thread is about endgame raiding, so of course it steers in that direction. Acting as if people are being unreasonable by bringing it up is wholly dishonest.

    Second, even among mythic raiders, these practices are not typical. As I said, it's mostly the extreme high end people that even touch these things. Saying that it's "common" would be like me claiming that every XIV player uses ACT timers/callouts and mods their client to improve their DPS.

    I'd really rather not turn the thread into another stupid war about how WoW sucks and XIV is the holy grail or something, though.
    It is perfectly reasonable to point out that heavy use of mods to trivialize mechanics is the norm in WoW but not the norm in FF14.

    It is perfectly reasonable to point out that overcoming steep gear walls is a major part of WoW's raid design and not at all a part of FF14s raid design.

    It is perfectly reasonable to point out that farming lower difficulties to gear up is the norm in WoW and not the norm in FF14.

    None of those are intrinsically value judgements, but people with serious wow brain see that and start having meltdowns and make us debate wether using ACT is the same as weak auras in a mythic end boss. It's stupid shit, but wow brain makes people say stupid shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Yeah, I still play both and appreciate what each of them are.

    I always felt like XIV was a better...what word do I use here..."whole" game. It feels like an entire world, with lots of stuff I want to do, characters I don't mind listening to (Sometimes!) and just a general atmosphere that I can appreciate hanging out in. That's not to say that the PvE content isn't great as well, it certainly is. XIV also generally respects my time more, except in a few areas.

    Contrast that to WoW which also has a world and - to be honest - a lot of stuff to do, but I just generally don't care about most of it. I won't claim it's a quality issue, it's just that I don't get into it very much. However, I do enjoy the overall gameplay feel and the enhanced PvE elements like Mythic+. I feel like I can sink my teeth into the PvE a little more in general. (XIV dungeons are much cooler thematically, but lets be honest about what the gameplay generally consists of.)

    All in all, I can alternate between the games as I see fit and have a great time in either. Never saw the need for a fight over em!
    It really depends what you are doing in each game, but generally speaking WoW is constructed to be the only video game you play and F14 is not. There are a lot of predatory hooks in WoW.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post

    It really depends what you are doing in each game, but generally speaking WoW is constructed to be the only video game you play and F14 is not. There are a lot of predatory hooks in WoW.
    Nah....
    Or rather, it *really* depends on what you are doing in each game.
    Only Mythic raiding in WoW requires you to do some sort of prep in terms of gear. That's about it.

    I do basically nothing in WoW but play for ~3 hours a week and all my gear except the legendary slots are at max level or one ilvl-step below it. (that means way better than heroic raiding gear) and has been for quite a long time as well.
    And I didn't even raid this tier.

    Since it's not about "gating" gear or anything, as "the only video game you play" means that you invest a lot of *time* in that game, that statement is simply not true.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-06-24 at 02:32 PM.

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