Going from hardcore to friends and family (CE level)

[Celement]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

[Biomega]

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

Personal decision, but that may be advisable here.

Remember: these kinds of guilds aren't in it for the performance. You offering advice to help them get better may be well-intentioned, but a lot of people in that kind of environment quite literally don't care. That's not why they play. They play to hang out with people.

My advice would be to help out when asked only - if they want people to contribute to a fight, or if someone says they don't know what to do etc. that's when you can step in and explain. But offering unsolicited advice just because you're wiping is usually counterproductive - many people will take it as a kind of undue pressure they're not accustomed to or interested in (YMMV of course).

[Temp name]

I mean, if it's time restraints causing you go look for a lower ranked guild, just join a guild that fits your skill requirements with your schedule rather than try and force a guild who clearly doesn't care about maximizing progress to fit what you want out of them.

There are guilds in / near top 100 world with 2 day a week raiding schedules, time requirements won't stop you from raiding near the highest levels.

And if it's not time stopping you from raiding at the level you want to, then either find another way to solve it, or take a break. Don't force others to live up to your standards when they don't want to.

[Accendor]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

Why don't you go for possibility 3 and instead join a hardcore guild and only go on their alt raids during that time? The level of play is usually much higher than in casual guilds and yet you do not have the same form of commitment. If you are a good player, you will also be able to transit to progress, once you have more time again.

Not every guild will take you, but there are enough who will. Just be honest with them amd accept that for the beginning you will only be reserve.

[Celement]

Why don't you go for possibility 3 and instead join a hardcore guild and only go on their alt raids during that time? The level of play is usually much higher than in casual guilds and yet you do not have the same form of commitment. If you are a good player, you will also be able to transit to progress, once you have more time again.

Not every guild will take you, but there are enough who will. Just be honest with them amd accept that for the beginning you will only be reserve.

That might be the best solution my availability is just all over the place currently and I didn't consider a back up only spot.

[XDurionX]

Personal decision, but that may be advisable here.

Remember: these kinds of guilds aren't in it for the performance. You offering advice to help them get better may be well-intentioned, but a lot of people in that kind of environment quite literally don't care. That's not why they play. They play to hang out with people.

My advice would be to help out when asked only - if they want people to contribute to a fight, or if someone says they don't know what to do etc. that's when you can step in and explain. But offering unsolicited advice just because you're wiping is usually counterproductive - many people will take it as a kind of undue pressure they're not accustomed to or interested in (YMMV of course).

This pretty much. Unsolicited advice is considered demeaning and patronizing by most people. Not restricted to WoW, but pretty much all walks of life.

[klaps_05]

Thats what F&F and casual guilds are - you just have to accept ppl will constantly fail small stuff and hopefully by the last few weeks of the tier when its completely blasted with nerfs, you can clear it for CE. Unfortunately those places dont really attract ppl with good past performance but rather the opposite.

If you are ever in a guild where you find yourself as a raider having to offer ppl advice, its not the right guild for you.

[mauserr]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

I tried that at one point and wasn't satisfied in the long run. You will always be grinding your teeth when you see those stupid misplays every single pull or people not pulling their weight, just not caring.

You need to find a guild of likeminded individuals. Raiders that once like you went from cutting edge to raiding 1-2 times a week, but still play good and try their best. Once I found one like that, clearing hc week 1, 2 at worst, then just farming it and not really giving a fuck about mythic, only playing some m+ afterwards, that was the good shit.

[Biomega]

You need to find a guild of likeminded individuals.

That's really the best strategy in general. The vast vast VAST majority of problems arises from a mismatch of goals and expectations. Find people who want to be doing the same things you want to be doing, and many of those issues simply go away.

Of course that's easier said than done

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Haha, don’t expect a casual guild to perform. They are for a different purpose. You can at least chill and have some fun with them.

[Goatfish]

Really the best advice I have is to find a group where your goals either align with or can coexist with the group goals. Recognize what you want out of a guild and take the slow process of finding a group you align with.

I don't recommend you try to lower your expectations. I often find that these casual guilds actually aren't happy with themselves when they try to raid or push higher keys. These kind of people try to idolize "the power of friendship" and "the journey is the goal" but it often turns out that those platitudes just leads to a lot of hidden frustration and guilds like that often fracture or completely collapse. They generally do recognize that they need to sacrifice some of their values to get results and are often too stubborn to bite the bullet.

This isn't to say they are wrong. A certain type of person enjoys pushing the wheelchair around the zoo instead of freely walking, but you need to recognize what it is you want and go with the group that matches your intentions. I just promote caution with the groups who consistently carry people because while you might find a couple people who are fine with always carrying someone, it's pretty rare to find a whole raid group that wants to carry the same shitter(s) who never better themselves.

Edit: I really want to reiterate. Don't listen to these people who tell you just to chill out as if you can force yourself to enjoy something you don't enjoy. It's absolutely god awful advice to tell someone to "just change your personality man". It's potentially possible, but it takes a long time, a lot of dedication, or a lot of drugs.

[potis]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

This comes with age/time related matters, and prioritizing things.

Can i play at a higher level? Yes.

Do i wanna deal with people and back to immature 20 year olds that are okay players but nothing amazing and think they are hot shit or be asked to play more than i want? Hell no.

Do i get fucking angry that the same 3-5 people out of 15-20 that are the starters of 80% of wipes and more like part of 90% of wipes on our HC clearing guild because they need a few more tries to learn some fights and the game is actually getting harder for them? Yes.

Do i prefer averagely 100-200 overall wipes to clear HC only casually with 2-4hr/week over a course of 2-3 months, over 150 wipes for a Mythic boss in a week? Well, yeah since i have been doing it for the last 7-8 years.

Do i end up averagely the same item level as Mythic raiders, just ~4-5 weeks after because of all the systems? Yeah, so who gives a fuck.

Its not really the other people that are the problem, its yourself, i catch myself ready to bang the desk, alt f4 and unsub (next time i unsub, its when i quit WoW for good basically or at least, the predetermined gather up on Wednesday evening) when we wipe on dumb shit, but thats 10 minutes every ~10 hours of raiding but thats on me, cause i know they will wipe us, i know they need 5-10 more tries than the other players to learn, etc.

[Malkiah]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

i've been through myself, a couple times in a multiple games in fact, so i know where you're coming from and the specific issue you're experiencing.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out.

so two things:
1. this is how every casual guild works - in theory, the people come first and the performance comes second. at least, that is one way that casual guilds will shape their guild culture... and if that's how they do things, you're not going to change that with facts or logs or metrics.

2. i had to learn to soften my language quite a bit, to point out the mistakes without being like "hey so-and-so fucked up such-and-such mechanic every pull" like you would in a performance-based guild.
try... talking to the raid lead, whoever coordinates the raids. kinda buddy up to them, and talk to them and let them decide to relay your information to the rest of the guild or not.
"if i may suggest, X mechanic is vital to beating this raid, you may want to remind them of that"

Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

my advice is this:
either find a path in yourself to just kinda be OK with them fucking up, and instead of making yourself feel out of place by barking at them at it just roll with it and enjoy the company and the occasional wins, or else yeah take a break from raiding.

you aren't going to change a casual guild's culture, adapt to it or step out.

[Daedius]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

Was a hardcore raider that went casual. Just did it, in the end all the achievements and vanity meant sweet fuck all. Just play to enjoy without the commitment.

[Athorha]

Find a guild that raids first person.

[pallesenmogens]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

All you can do is offer your advice, you can't force anybody to listen to it or implement the changes. So it's really up to you, if you believe you, eventually, would fit in. Otherwise I would say take a break for now. :-)

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

I think it's pretty hard to go backward, most people can't do it. You just see the Dunning Krueger stuff all over lol

I'm happy doing m+ with friends but unless I was willing to commit the time to a raid with people who had my goals (which I'm not) it's just misery and frustration.

I'd say almost all conflicts in the game come from people not having the same goals!

[Relapses]

Real advice: Don't try to help unless they ask you first. If you can't hold your tongue then maybe going casual isn't the right answer for you.

Personally, I've realized that I have almost no tolerance for stupidity so I simply haven't raided since Nighthold.

[VinceVega]

Does anyone have any advice for this? Recently I've been trying out more casual guilds instead of very progression minded ones and I've not been fitting in.

I just notice things done oddly and try to help. Pulls continously caused by the same people yet always addressed as the groups fault. Under performers taken over people newly recruited for the express reason that we need their roles. Cause of woes not being understood, etc.

I just feel like the black sheep for pointing things out. Am I better off just taking a break till I can commit to playing at a higher level?

Yeah... you have to be REALLY prepared to just... keep chill.

I did it in Legion and... god damn there have been moments where i nearly had to smash my head on the keyboard.
But it is not the goal to be super efficent in these groups. Even though many in these groups think it is. These are ironically mostly the poeple who talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

Just don't point things out. They have to do the content in their pace. If you point it out or are visibly frustrated you should go back to CE or at least mid mythic raiding.

Put yourself in their shoes: Someone everyone knows can play better joins your group. Everybody knows (well most) you could probably point something out for every character and every encounter. But if you do it it does not feel good for the others.

Just play. Never say anything unless you are running into a wall or someone directly asks you.

I found for myself that i won't have fun this way. If people do not try to get better (no matter the level) it gets frustraiting for me and i also don't want to be an asshole pointing it out all the time. So i am mostly the mid performing player in a mid mythic group and don't play in PuGs or FaF groups anymore.

[Caprias]

Don't you think It'd be helpful to disclose a bit more accurately of what you mean with "hardcore to casual"?

Because there are people on this forum that will scream "bloody murder, you're wasting your life and this game is your whole identity" when you're in a 3 evening middle of the pack CE guild that takes 4~months to clear and also people that would call that being a "filthy casual".