Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    GOP is coming after social security next.

    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  2. #2
    This isn't a new thing. They've always have been trying to gut or change Social Security since its inception.

  3. #3
    The only saving grace is that it would be really really hard for them to actually do because of how much it would directly (negatively) affect a key constituency. I think step one needs to be raise, if not eliminate, the taxable income cap on it. That would mostly, if not entirely, address the solvency. If it takes raising the eligibility age to get the votes, it's not preferable, but acceptable.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  4. #4
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,005
    When it's something you've paid into for 40 years or so, taken from your paycheck without fail, it's "entitlement". Says the man whose salary is paid by taxes.

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    24,685
    They are aging out, they want to make sure they suck it dry before they leave.

    I've been told since before I knew what the words social or security meant that the it probably wouldn't exist by the time I age into it.

    The political system that fostered it died out and it can't be maintained unless politicians were actually interested in maintaining it. Even if no one touches it it wouldn't be able to sustain future generations, especially Millenials.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    When it's something you've paid into for 40 years or so, taken from your paycheck without fail, it's "entitlement". Says the man whose salary is paid by taxes.
    Still wonder just what was in that GOP email leak that turned Graham into such a Trump fanboy and if any of that can be related in attempt so sow chaos.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral tehdang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,146
    You can even say, Social Security is coming after Social Security. Read any report of the Trustees for the past twenty years. They'll predict imminent insolvency, cash deficits, actuarial impossibilities, and time is running out. No nasty, partisan headline necessary.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  8. #8
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    36,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Still wonder just what was in that GOP email leak that turned Graham into such a Trump fanboy and if any of that can be related in attempt so sow chaos.
    "We'll release the video of your wife and that guy on MMO-C" possibly.

    To be fair, Graham has been trying to gut SS since at least 2005. Nothing about Trump has changed his mind, only the timing.

  9. #9
    You guys got to fight back and start fighting for each other instead of for yourselves. The single biggest issue with today is it's all about the individual not about the group and people need to stop thinking that way because that's when society falls.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - The subscription for WoW will be added to Gamepass Ultimate at no additional cost, mark my words.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    "We'll release the video of your wife and that guy on MMO-C" possibly.

    To be fair, Graham has been trying to gut SS since at least 2005. Nothing about Trump has changed his mind, only the timing.
    Ah. Truly sad how America could actually fix most of the issues if it weren't for people like this and dumbasses supporting them standing in the way. Would rather sell themselves and their families out than ever admit they are wrong on something and refuse to even try and THINK about actual solutions to the issues.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Waycross, GA
    Posts
    8,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    The only saving grace is that it would be really really hard for them to actually do because of how much it would directly (negatively) affect a key constituency.
    You really think their constituents would hear about how they gutted SS? They would hear about how it was the Dem's fault or not hear about it at all.

    I think step one needs to be raise, if not eliminate, the taxable income cap on it. That would mostly, if not entirely, address the solvency.
    Not likely to happen, but would be nice.

    If it takes raising the eligibility age to get the votes, it's not preferable, but acceptable.
    Working until you die isn't acceptable. The retirement age doesn't need to be raised at all.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    You guys got to fight back and start fighting for each other instead of for yourselves. The single biggest issue with today is it's all about the individual not about the group and people need to stop thinking that way because that's when society falls.
    Yeah, as soon as the GQP figures that out shit will start getting better.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You can even say, Social Security is coming after Social Security. Read any report of the Trustees for the past twenty years. They'll predict imminent insolvency, cash deficits, actuarial impossibilities, and time is running out. No nasty, partisan headline necessary.
    Nasty partisan headlines are always necessary when nasty partisans rear their nasty little heads.

    If you'll notice Graham likes to trot it out the fearmongering about the US turning into Greece but only when a Democrat is president. He cheerfully voted to increase the national debt when Trump was president.

    You're just butthurt that SS will always be more efficient than any privately run retirement institution.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    You really think their constituents would hear about how they gutted SS? They would hear about how it was the Dem's fault or not hear about it at all.
    On this issue, and probably only this issue, I think they actually would. George W. tried partially privatizing it, but the more he talked about it, the less popular it became. "Rein in entitlement spending" is a great bugaboo for the GOP to run on when it comes to denying people *cough* minorities and poor people*cough* benefits, but if they actually hit their older voters in the wallet? They'd still feel the pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    Working until you die isn't acceptable. The retirement age doesn't need to be raised at all.
    I agree that working until you die isn't acceptable. However, I think the ONLY semi-reasonable point that right-wingers/moderates bring up on the issue is that the number of years people live on average beyond 65 has steadily gone up since the program was implemented. As medical technology improves, this could continue to rise. Obviously I think you could mathematically keep the age and the benefits by changing the tax cap- my point about changing the legibility age being 'acceptable' was political, not moral. It's really hard to see the political will to simply eliminate that cap without some sort of tradeoff any time in the near future. If Congress ever does get around to fixing the solvency (and not just punting by paying via general funds), I'd rather not have benefit cuts be a part of that deal as the GOP will insist. If you could swing a higher retirement age instead of benefit cuts (in addition to a raising of the payroll tax cap), I think that would be a huge win.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    The only saving grace is that it would be really really hard for them to actually do because of how much it would directly (negatively) affect a key constituency. I think step one needs to be raise, if not eliminate, the taxable income cap on it. That would mostly, if not entirely, address the solvency. If it takes raising the eligibility age to get the votes, it's not preferable, but acceptable.
    They've been screwing that exact group for years and just get more popular with them each time they do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You can even say, Social Security is coming after Social Security. Read any report of the Trustees for the past twenty years. They'll predict imminent insolvency, cash deficits, actuarial impossibilities, and time is running out. No nasty, partisan headline necessary.
    SS is billions in the green. The US government borrows from SS due to it being one of the few things in the US government that pays for itself.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral tehdang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Nasty partisan headlines are always necessary when nasty partisans rear their nasty little heads.

    If you'll notice Graham likes to trot it out the fearmongering about the US turning into Greece but only when a Democrat is president. He cheerfully voted to increase the national debt when Trump was president.
    You've arrived at a valid point. He's only going to make the worst comparisons when he stands to make political gain. (And *ahem* the partisan backlash from the sources cited only rears its partisan head when its Republicans making the criticism). Not that they're untrue, just that he does the politician thing with it.

    You're just butthurt that SS will always be more efficient than any privately run retirement institution.
    God, if SS is what you're comparing with efficiency, you have a very strange idea of that word.

    SS is billions in the green. The US government borrows from SS due to it being one of the few things in the US government that pays for itself.
    To rephrase this, the federal government has been jacking the money and replacing it with IOU's for decades now. It's just being refilled from general taxation, aka today's income tax receipts are being funneled into social security. National defense is complained about frequently, but can't touch it.

    So by "billions in the green" you mean, well let's put it in SSA Trustees language,"the cost has exceeded non-interest income since 2010", "Total cost went higher than total income 2021," and "reserves deplete in 2035." You can't really say billions in the green if the money current retirees paid in over their lifetime is gone, but they're expecting to cash out for many years for money that hasn't been taken yet. Actuaries say the program is shit and dying ... current retirees from a baby-boom gen is increasing beneficiaries faster than lower-birthrate current payers can be taxed, and all that.

    I mean, it can be nice putting on a blindfold for liabilities talk, and taking it off for the assets. It's extremely fun if you're saving for retirement!
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post

    I agree that working until you die isn't acceptable. However, I think the ONLY semi-reasonable point that right-wingers/moderates bring up on the issue is that the number of years people live on average beyond 65 has steadily gone up since the program was implemented. As medical technology improves, this could continue to rise.
    I always have to laugh at those that think raising the retirement age is the answer. Yes people are living longer but you know what science hasn't figured out yet? How to slow the aging process. There is a reason why Airline Traffic controllers and similar positions have age ceilings. Have y'all even worked in an office setting with an extremely older workforce on Your team. The difference in production is staggering! Simply put making people work until they are 70s deeply hurts production as they become slower and more prone to calling in sick. Not only that but it stagnates growth and new ideas in the office because the "good ole boys" will prevent meaningful change. Sometimes you need to cut down the old trees to improve the life of the forest and that means to get them out of production and let them sit on a beach somewhere.

    That being said its no mystery why SS is hurting. When you keep your cap at 130k for decades and since Reagan raided it by using it to pay for General Ledger expenses no wonder a great program is hurting. I laugh every single time a Republican cries about it being insolvent because y'all was the one who raided the retirement account in the first place.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    You've arrived at a valid point. He's only going to make the worst comparisons when he stands to make political gain. (And *ahem* the partisan backlash from the sources cited only rears its partisan head when its Republicans making the criticism). Not that they're untrue, just that he does the politician thing with it.

    God, if SS is what you're comparing with efficiency, you have a very strange idea of that word.
    The key difference here is that when Dems are in control the debt doesn't usually spiral out of control. When the GOP is in control the debt frequently goes up. Yet for some reason the GOP likes to view themselves as disciplined about government debt. The partisan backlash you're whining about is really just some people laughing at GOP hypocrisy.

    And yet its still better than the alternative. Hows that bear market helping your 401K?

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk wunksta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,953
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    God, if SS is what you're comparing with efficiency, you have a very strange idea of that word.
    The system is also efficient: the cost of administering Social Security is less than 0.7% of annual benefits, compared to administrative costs at private insurance companies that are on average more than 40 times as high.
    https://www.epi.org/publication/issuebriefs_ib112/

  20. #20
    Sadly, we have ways to fixing our issues with Social Security perfectly fine, the GOP are just ideologically against anything that would actually work and would rather cut their nose off to spite their face intentionally causing suffering than actually addressing the issues and preventing them.

    Raising the age limit won't address it as they won't suddenly be more capable of working just because the cap is lifted, as another said, living longer didn't mean they slowed aging.

    Cutting benefits won't address it because they are underpaid as is and typically either are barely holding it together off it, living with others because they don't make enough to support themselves or are flat out homeless and cutting that pay just forces more of them off the cliff.

    But raising the cap on how much is taxed towards social security so the more well off get much of their income untouched would greatly address it. Especially if you also changed the laws so that all income is taxed as income regardless of source above $200,000 so that those getting their income through stock dividends and such actually pay into it at all which they currently dodge, those changes right though would likely completely solve the issue without no extra suffering.

    But the GOP would rather cause suffering than have those who are well off actually pay into the system properly. As I have said before, the biggest moochers and welfare queens in this nation aren't poor, they are among the wealthiest among us.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •