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  1. #81
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    I would be ok with some minor develpment, but the idea is to keep it classic.

    Some things i would love to see:
    - OFF-levels that allow players to get more talent points, i was thinking in a off-level of 20, perhaps 40, players would get 11 or 31 extra talents.
    - Extra gear slots that scale with off-levels, a Plate user would be hable to equip mail in those slots. A mail user would be hable to equip leather and so on, but cloth users would be hable to equip plate beneath their main equipment. No extra-slot for main weapons.
    - Old instances with HC mode, similar to DM and SFK in cata, but tuned for off-levels.

    I do agree with the OP in one point, making cata classic realms is a bad idea.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Yes, let's put development resources behind an old, superseded iteration of the game instead of developing new improvements for the current and ongoing one.

    Let's do that.

    Let's just set money on fire.
    You mean, corrupted game mechanics laced with cookie clicker nonsense minigames?

  3. #83
    All I read was "make wow into runescape"

  4. #84
    The biggest reason this wouldn't work is that the minds that made the original classic are gone. The ones they got just don't have the same perspectives. So you will never get that real classic feel to the systems and game play. Sure, some people can do a really good job emulating it and other might even do a fair job at making it feel somewhat the same but everything they go forward on would just be influenced by the current retail game in reality. Not to mention the people playing the game are totally different. The culture surrounding the whole genre and gaming itself is massively altered.

    Its why its best imo to just release the older games as close to as they were as possible. Sure sometimes change because you have to shove it into the new wow client or some data was lost.. so be it. Just do your best to make it as it was as it was before and just let it roll. Anything you plug into it that is totally brand new just will start to feel like retail and if you want that then just play shadowlands / dragonflight when it hits. Its really that simple.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    It was early indeed, but thats not all. People wanted way more changes than it was presented, and it wasnt really well executed. Why would you go through a harder more sluggish version of mc when you can get rank14 in 6 weeks and tier 0.5 from the get go.
    I don't think a harder version of MC was necessarily the problem, but them rather that loot quantity remained unchanged initially.

    They marketed as part of the challenge of SoM that it's unlikely to earn BiS within a phase(nevermind that only extremely lucky, rich (GDKP buyers) or corrupt guildleaders / officers obtained BiS within a phase during actual lcassic), yet at the same time, made it easier to obtain PvP gear.
    So you had to put in extra effort for the same loot, while PvP'ing was just objectively better for any nonhealer class to gear yourself, which then largely invalidated any raiding until AQ / Naxx with the exception of a few select pieces.

    I don't think having Tier 0.5 in there from the start was a bad thing, because the set requires quite the effort to obtain as you need 8/8 Tier 0 pieces to complete the whole chain and the set as a whole isn't that useful except for a handful of pieces.
    As a healer you'd just pass on the set almost entirely on every class.

    What in my opinion set SoM up for being that underwhelming:
    - Not class changes, same Meta as Classic
    - No Itemization changes (at least buffing certain weak items might've mixed things up)
    - Same loot quantity despite accelerating the content pacing

    In a world where Blizzard would've at least tackled 1 and 3, i could imagine that SoM would've been quite popular, but those factors combined with the fact that it just started only a few months after we "left" Classic gave it little room beyond the leveling phase.
    If Blizzard launches another Classic season (which they've hinted at) and they drag their feet on class changes yet again, then they just intentionally sabotage themselves.

  6. #86
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    SoM failed because it didn't cater to anyone, It was not what classic+ enthusiasts wanted nor what purists would have liked. Blizzard has the problem to be way to conservative with classic IPs, they need to hit the gas harder both in D2R and Classic. A well done Classic+ would generate a hype possibly bigger than OG classic, so many people would come back for it.
    Early on before it released I remember them saying that depending on how well SoM went they would implement things in future seasons like a rebalance to classes and items. Made it sound to me like PoE leagues where everything is the same with some new mechanics thrown in each season.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    Now you’re strawmanning lol nice. Just admit what you said was stupid and let’s skip these weird games shall we? Thanks
    *yawn* That wasn't a strawman. In the absence of an actual argument do you just have a grab bag of random terminology you like to throw out?

    Again, I'm sorry you feel like Cata touched your no-no areas but it really shouldn't be this controversial to suggest that progression servers are likely to continue through all expansions.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    *yawn* That wasn't a strawman. In the absence of an actual argument do you just have a grab bag of random terminology you like to throw out?

    Again, I'm sorry you feel like Cata touched your no-no areas but it really shouldn't be this controversial to suggest that progression servers are likely to continue through all expansions.
    That was a strawman, that was the actual classic definition of one.

    You brought up an argument I never said and then tore down its flaws. I never said the things you were just arguing against.

    I have nothing against cata, if they made it I just wouldn’t play it I have no issues. I’m just telling you facts and you don’t like to hear them because you’re either attached to cata for some reason or you are a contrarian who just like to argue. I’m assuming the later considering you’re other discussions on here. If you want to be a contrarian you have to at least form a semi-intelligent counter to what you’re arguing against though. Just a helpful tip for next time.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    That was a strawman, that was the actual classic definition of one.

    You brought up an argument I never said and then tore down its flaws. I never said the things you were just arguing against.

    I have nothing against cata, if they made it I just wouldn’t play it I have no issues. I’m just telling you facts and you don’t like to hear them because you’re either attached to cata for some reason or you are a contrarian who just like to argue. I’m assuming the later considering you’re other discussions on here. If you want to be a contrarian you have to at least form a semi-intelligent counter to what you’re arguing against though. Just a helpful tip for next time.
    Lmfao okay dude. You've made the same completely unsourced argument multiple times and the only evidence you have to back it up is the fact that "the community" for which your singular voice is the only thing that matters doesn't support it. I called you out on this and you've pivoted the argument several times with ad hominems and other various non-arguments. If you actually had "nothing against Cata" you wouldn't be arguing so vehemently against the mere suggestion that maybe, just maybe, the future of progression servers which have up to this point been rolled out chronologically would continue to do just that.

  10. #90
    I think they missed a massive opportunity when they didn't go the route of Classic+ instead of just mindlessly releasing the expansions again in order. The idea of seeing what WoW would look like if they kept moving on with Vanilla had me extremely curious, and we already know that some stuff like Emerald Dream maps were in development at this point.

    As it stands I don't and will never have interest in classic. I already played these expansions, I don't want to just repeat them for the sake of a nostalgia trip, I want something more out of my time than that.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Lmfao okay dude. You've made the same completely unsourced argument multiple times and the only evidence you have to back it up is the fact that "the community" for which your singular voice is the only thing that matters doesn't support it. I called you out on this and you've pivoted the argument several times with ad hominems and other various non-arguments. If you actually had "nothing against Cata" you wouldn't be arguing so vehemently against the mere suggestion that maybe, just maybe, the future of progression servers which have up to this point been rolled out chronologically would continue to do just that.
    Already told you my sources for the tenth time. Keep repeating yourself and maybe you will sound more correct the next time.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    Already told you my sources for the tenth time. Keep repeating yourself and maybe you will sound more correct the next time.
    And for the tenth time the private server community isn't a valid source because Blizzard's Classic wasn't made for the private server community. They are different audiences which want different things from the game. You do not get to hand waive the will of the entire Classic WoW community because you "have a brain." This is not an argument nor is my dispute of this nonsensical form of reasoning an example of me being a contrarian. Take the ego down a notch.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    And for the tenth time the private server community isn't a valid source because Blizzard's Classic wasn't made for the private server community. They are different audiences which want different things from the game. You do not get to hand waive the will of the entire Classic WoW community because you "have a brain." This is not an argument nor is my dispute of this nonsensical form of reasoning an example of me being a contrarian. Take the ego down a notch.
    You’re talking in circles sweetheart I already responded to this nonsense and then you responded with a strawman.

    Keep repeating yourself maybe it will sound more correct next time

  14. #94
    sorry but blizz isnt going to pay for new content to be developed for classic when they dont even pay GMs to moderate the game. it is full of bots and people buying gold. blizz puts minimal effort into classic just to generate extra money from subs and thats it.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    sorry but blizz isnt going to pay for new content to be developed for classic when they dont even pay GMs to moderate the game. it is full of bots and people buying gold. blizz puts minimal effort into classic just to generate extra money from subs and thats it.
    If you care too much about bots just don't play any mmorpg ever, because they are in every game with an economy and are extremely hard to get rid of completely. Also Classic is a huge chunk of the WoW subs and classic announcement generated a hype bigger than probably every expansion since Legion. Ion said he would listen to what the community wants, and if we want Classic+ we have to speak up.

  16. #96
    Wont happen. We all want that feeling we got when playing wow for the very first time, 1000 years ago. No matter what Blizzard does with wow, that feeling you had in the first year(s) will never return.

    Our best bet is a new game from someone else than Blizzard. Blizzard is not the same that made wow in the first place. Its something quite different now. Something that cant create something great again.

  17. #97
    Warchief Crillam's Avatar
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    It would be awesome if they decided to do something like that. And then re-create the old Outland and Northrend that was planned back in vanilla. See them going/taking it in a different approach with a vanilla mindset. Raids, dungeons etc. However that won't happen because it would be a waste of time and money. Let's see how wotlk classic even goes. Might be the last "classic" release before they scrap it.

  18. #98
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kent088 View Post
    Classic Plus = A new, alternative course for WoW starting in the Vanilla era. This includes lore, gameplay, and administration, the inspiration for this idea from the widely successful Runescape approach.

    ONE. THE RUNESCAPE APPROACH, IN SHORT

    Runescape's most widely loved era by many of its players was in roughly 2007/8, an intermediate period between the early 00's classic Runescape and the more modern RS 3. In this iteration, the game was sort of a Star Wars Galaxies set in the fantasy world Jagex created, for the browser. This changed when Runescape decided to implement it's own "NGE", and copy many features of WoW and other MMO's. Finally, after a huge deal of bemoaning by the players, they implemented old school servers, where bug fixes are done and changes are made based on primarily player vote.

    TWO. THE RUNESCAPE APPROACH, IN WOW

    Begin with a Classic server. Implement bug fixes that have been implemented throughout the era of Classic Vanilla. Offer player votes for changes; Perfect RS' majority vote with a rating system with a value system: "Proposal A: Nerf Frostbolt by 20%. Select 1-10 how much you agree with this proposal. Suggest an alternative number if desired." Set changes to require a 7.5 average rating to implement. This sort of value system voting has been well studied in business and political science is one of a few optimal ways of handling mass voting. These proposals should be formulated PROPERLY, so that players do not skew their answers from their actual feelings on a proposal. Examples below:

    IMPROPER Proposal

    1. "Release Mount Hyjal as a new high-level open world zone, complete with two dungeons and a world boss." "Rate this proposal 1-10."

    PROPER Proposal

    1. "Release Mount Hyjal as a new high-level open world zone. (Levels 53-60)."
    2. "Release two additional dungeons with the Mount Hyjal release."
    3. "Release a world boss with Mount Hyjal."
    "Rate these proposals 1-10."

    Possible Results - Improper: 7.9, Results - Proper: 8.5, 6.9, 9

    What these could suggest - Improper: Players want all these changes. Proper: Players want to see mount Hyjal but with an emphasis on the open-world, however they would likely prefer dungeons to no progression content at all.

    So as we can see here, if I am a player who wants to see Mount Hyjal, but dislikes dungeons, in the first proposals I will possibly vote against, heavily. In the second, I can vote for 1 and 3, and its up to other players to counter or agree with me on the dungeons. This provides a more accurate match of where players' heads are.

    Realistically, these votes should contain possibly 20 questions, centering on what the level ranges the new zones should be, what gear tiers they are, etc. A truly classic environment would not endlessly inflate gear scoring like mainstream WoW, which gets into another point.

    THREE. PERMANENT LEVEL 60 CAP

    Part of WoW's issue is this huge invalidation of previous content. All these development and game hours put into content for it to instantly become worthless overnight. This has been alleviated some by systems like Timewalking, or separating the profession schools, but why even chase your tail when you can relax the design process to just roll in new content as a part of old content, and vice versa?

    Keep the cap at 60, but implement levels for talent points after that for new content where the "levels" are expanded. Here's an example scenario:

    Historical Retail: Geared 60 > Outland Geared Level 62 > Level 70 > Geared Level 70

    Result: Rush to 70, rush to latest raids.

    Alternative: At level 60, one does new daily or Outland content, or becomes a defender of Azeroth, choosing to stay and focus on new objectives in existing content. These give experience for new talent points, up to an additional 10. Talent trees are updated to be more modern, but are ultimately the same size.

    Six new raids released throughout the course of the TBC expansion: Two will be harder than Vanilla tiers - Black Temple(T4) and Sunwell(T5). The remaining four raids integrate with existing Tiers, ranging from T1-T3. Players can now choose to face C'Thun or Lady Vashj for their Tier 3 equivalent stats, though both raids will drop cosmetically different loot.

    Alternative Two: At level 60, content is not released in expansions, but instead in patches. Each patch varies in size, but focus on incremental, qualitative changes to the game. Tier 4 is released as "Invasion of Outland" a new raid centered on storming Hellfire Citadel in the new single "Outland" Zone. Following Tier 4, a later patch releases an additional Tier 2 raid is released in Tanaris, focused on revisiting the Invasion of Hyjal through the Caverns of Time.

    FOUR. EXPANSIONS ON NON-RAID, DUNGEON, OR PVP CONTENT

    Separate combat levels from profession levels. Allow professions as an open world, solo way to get gear on par with pvp or pve'rs. The fine print here is that the top gear is always soulbound and incredibly arduous to make. It might be worthwhile to make a helmet and chest, raid for gloves, and pvp for boots, for example. Or you may choose to only interact with other players in small 2-3 person groups fighting world elites, roleplay, etc. Or you may choose to interact with players in massive 100 player raids consisting of multiple raid groups for large world events.

    Professions should, simply put, do and have more. Make them alternative ways of playing just like in SWG, such as a bard profession where my combat level is five, but I spend all my time entertaining other players, or buffing them, engaging in tournaments, making me gold and awarding me items that can be used in my pursuit of other professions, or ultimately in gaining combat related items when I decide to do that content. If I have a "gig" in Felwood, I can pay other players to escort me from my large bank I've developed.

    Combat professions should be expanded with more buffs, and debuffs. Alchemist or Engineer professions will even allow players to blend their professions with their combat level, in effect creating fully fleshed out Apothecary or Tinker classes.

    FIVE. MORE REWARDS FOR OPEN WORLD PVP

    Simply put, Open World PvP should be more rewarding. Give PvP rankings with dishonor and honor. Kill a level 10 as a 60? Gain dishonor. Choose to engage in FFA PvP and Attack your own factions settlements? Gain Dishonor. Defend a settlement from the other faction? Bonus Honor. BG's are fun and great, but they serve to push players into cities and afk, and after all this is the world of warcraft between the Horde and Alliance.
    Basically what you're asking for is WoW 2.0. Which I don't disagree with, but you're wanting to go back to the good old days and then have them make content and along the way not fuck it all up like they have.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Cayde69 View Post
    I most certainly can when it’s paired with a ton of people on forums constantly saying that cata is terrible and that wow classic should be a trilogy and that you never ever see anyone hyped or talking about cata. If anything they would skip it and go to mop because that at least had some sort of audience.

    Also I love how you’re saying “you can’t possibly get that information from looking at the private server community” considering we are talking about a version of the game that was specifically made because of the private server community LOL.

    If a community that specifically loves the older versions of wow. A community that has been held in contact for over a decade now, that has tried to open up cata servers idk how many times just for it to die the day it opens up. Yeah let’s not look at that at all for a hint. Yup. Smart thinking on your part
    Well, that's it boys. Here we have confirmation that Cata will undeniably not happen because "a ton of people on the forums" don't want it. Rip in pepperonis.

    Jokes aside. Dude, if you think they will skip Cata and go to MoP, you are mistaken. There will be people that want Cata, people that will come back to play Cata, and people that will carry on through Cata to wait for MoP, and they all add to the $$$. Not to mention it just doesn't really make sense.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    Well, that's it boys. Here we have confirmation that Cata will undeniably not happen because "a ton of people on the forums" don't want it. Rip in pepperonis.

    Jokes aside. Dude, if you think they will skip Cata and go to MoP, you are mistaken. There will be people that want Cata, people that will come back to play Cata, and people that will carry on through Cata to wait for MoP, and they all add to the $$$. Not to mention it just doesn't really make sense.
    I don’t actually believe they would skip cata to go to mop, I just said “if anything” to highlight that that scenario would happen before cata because at the very least mop has a sizeable audience and has at least held a minor amount of players on dedicated servers for at least a short period of time.

    I think it ends with wrath and then they will either attempt some more SoM nonsense, make seasons, or attempt something different.

    I mentioned more than just people talking on forums but that’s cute that this is all you took from it.

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