Sepulcher of the First Ones Raid Tuning Coming June 21

[deathshere]

Lfr mythic lol

[Ashana Darkmoon]

While I do agree nerfs kind of are a natural cycle of the game at this point because for some reason they havent found a way to use the natural gearing up cycle to lower the curve as well as they once did (not to say nerfs still didn't happen then but fewer and less large ones).. but.. when you see things like 30% off here, 75% there... my god.. was it even sanely tuned to begin with? Those are mega tuning changes.

Yeah I do think there's some merit to the arms race idea with RWF stuff, and not in a way that's really sustainable.

Like people will hate this, but making the challenge more about throughput than mechanics would make gear nerfs way more significant, right? Like Echo beats stuff with crap gear because they are the best dps in the world (like how they eked out that bit of extra dps on Sylvanas), but when other guilds get there later, the 20% more damage makes it a completely different fight because they can skip phases etc.

But with the way SL has mostly been (and even 8.3 with corruption dps), actual dps hasn't seem to matter that much. even crap guilds do enough damage, they just can't handle the 10 different instant wipe mechanics. So then they have to crater mechanics with nerfs and even that doesn't feel like enough.

Personally I'd be more interested in raiding again if it was more on the throughput side. That's kinda how m+ is in a way, mechanics are simple and known but you do crazy stuff like huge pulls to do more damage (which gear helps with immensely!).

[kronides]

It's because no one is doing the raid. This raid was way too hard for regular people, even on normal, so they said, "Fuck it, I just don't raid anymore, this isn't meant for me." And they won't come back now after it's been nerfed repeatedly, either; it never should have been so hard in the first place.

[kamuimac]

It's because no one is doing the raid. This raid was way too hard for regular people, even on normal, so they said, "Fuck it, I just don't raid anymore, this isn't meant for me." And they won't come back now after it's been nerfed repeatedly, either; it never should have been so hard in the first place.

heh thats so me this tier.

wont lie painsmith mythic is what broke me and i left with " no no no nope im done with this shit "

i literlay didnt touch this tier above lfr and i did lfr only because my guardian druid was super unlucky with weapons as was runing 1s with 226 green weapon :0

m+ is only endgame which is semi -decently tuning (if it was up to me i woudl flat nerf it all by 30 % to bring more people into mythic + )

[Osmeric]

It's because no one is doing the raid. This raid was way too hard for regular people, even on normal, so they said, "Fuck it, I just don't raid anymore, this isn't meant for me." And they won't come back now after it's been nerfed repeatedly, either; it never should have been so hard in the first place.

It's astounding if they made SL and thought "this is what people really want."

[Daan]

Sepulcher of the First Ones difficulty set to 'Heroic' (was 'Mythic').

[Loveliest]

It's because no one is doing the raid. This raid was way too hard for regular people, even on normal, so they said, "Fuck it, I just don't raid anymore, this isn't meant for me." And they won't come back now after it's been nerfed repeatedly, either; it never should have been so hard in the first place.

Yep. Somehow they managed to make us struggle in the raid so much that it isn't fun anymore. Progression is fun. Hitting your head against a wall while you wait for nerfs is not. Not sure how they managed to take the arguably best part about WoW (raids) and mess it to the point people lose interest completely.

- - - Updated - - -

Completely agree. My guild is in the same boat: SL's raids were a big step up in difficulty. You pretty much have to outgear the fights as an average skilled group and even then one mistake often means a wipe.

Yep. We used to be able to carry 2-3 guildies on hc. Now we can't carry even one because of the scaling and wipe mechanics. Maybe this would mean we should now stick to normal instead of hc, but why the design change? Why would you want to give ppl who used to progress hc less progression. Raid wipe mechanics because of one randomly chosen player should be Mythic only.

[gobarj]

Holy shit, did raiding guilds get this bad that they need Mythic to be tuned closely to the Heroic or Normal versions? We really don't need everyone "entitled" to Mythic gear, if you can't beat it then that's fine, it's why Heroic (or Normal) is there for you and your guild. Mythic isn't supposed to be for everyone...

[MoanaLisa]

It's astounding if they made SL and thought "this is what people really want."

Nah, it's what they wanted for the raid. The lessons that were learned in Cataclysm have either been forgotten or they no longer care. I'm in 100% agreement with others that damage nerfs of 75%-90% show just how out-of-whack the tuning was to begin with.

I think they now build these things for the "unofficial" world first race and then have no idea where most players competencies rest. So they just hunt around. These nerfs though show an incompetence for raid tuning that the raid team needs to think about. I doubt that they will though.

[Osmeric]

I doubt that they will though.

Indeed. I've come to the conclusion that unless the dev team explicitly owns up to failures and says how it will fix them, they won't be fixed. This is why I will likely never play WoW again.

[Neotart]

It does sound that way for you and your guild, so good for you. Ours always requires 5 healers for a group size of around 16 to 18 (mostly average-parse) players for it on Heroic.




Just don't forget about the raiders below your group's skill level. Our guild has never been what would be called "top tier" but it does have multiple AoTC achievements and with each expansion (of late), it's felt like Blizzard keeps designing encounters ever the more tighter -- and leaving the more average-skilled behind. It's frustrating how many guilds that don't raid Mythic are being punished because of the game dev's arms race with the RWF scene (and/or just don't care enough for proper tuning). /rant

Main thing is all the players using defensives in the right way. but yeah.

[TOM_RUS]

I'm gonna test those nerfs next week, but it feels like these nerfs are not enough and we need much more nerfs to make those mythic bosses killable by average guilds.

[erifwodahs]

I'm gonna test those nerfs next week, but it feels like these nerfs are not enough and we need much more nerfs to make those mythic bosses killable by average guilds.

But getting CE is not for average guild. Average guilds have Normal/HC. CE literally means Cutting Edge - how can you be cutting edge if you are average?

[coprax]

"[...]damage reduced by 90% on Mythic difficulty"

I don't know what these spells are or what they do, but holy fuck!?

[Zoibert the Bear]

This is sad and ridicoulous. Imagine tuning content for 0.001% of the playerbase.

[twothe]

Mythic, the new LFR.

[panda040]

With every nerf to mythic difficulty cutting edge means less and less

[MatthewOU2015]

Everyone saying this is dumb link your cutting edge achievements. This raid was severely overtuned

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Nah, it's what they wanted for the raid. The lessons that were learned in Cataclysm have either been forgotten or they no longer care. I'm in 100% agreement with others that damage nerfs of 75%-90% show just how out-of-whack the tuning was to begin with.

I think they now build these things for the "unofficial" world first race and then have no idea where most players competencies rest. So they just hunt around. These nerfs though show an incompetence for raid tuning that the raid team needs to think about. I doubt that they will though.

The fact they've been nerfing dungeons at the same time (after being out for almost two years, in what is already the easiest season in the history of the game) seems like it may be a change of course.

I don't think they've ever nerfed a raid this much or nerfed dungeons this much this late in a season

[Sariengrey]

Large, hard nerfs like this just show and prove they never knew what they were doing in the first place.