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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    In the case of multi-spec, I disagree. If you were able to change your race and class mid dungeon, people would do it, and call it a quality of life improvement, but it would drfinitely diminish how immersed and invested you are in what that character is.

    If you make a shadowpriest, you shouldnt be able to snap your fingers and devote yourself to the Light, for example. If you can cast both, why respec at all; why not just have all of the spells available at once? Why not be able to swap racea when you feel like the racial abilities would be more useful in PVP vs M+? Because it breaks character.
    Lore/immersion/roleplay stuff should never, NEVER stand in the way of gameplay, you can add immersion and rpg elements without fucking over players and adding mid to long-term friction.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Lore/immersion/roleplay stuff should never, NEVER stand in the way of gameplay, you can add immersion and rpg elements without fucking over players and adding mid to long-term friction.
    So levels and ilvl should be account wide. Swap your race and class and faction in rested zones. Alright man.

    Make transmog, barber, auctioneer, bank, guild bank, raid vendors, pvp vendors, mailbox, profession trainer, and great vault all the same NPC, an ethereal you can summon with a toy.

    Roleplay *always* stands in the way of gameplay. Everybody draws a line between convenience and immersion somewhere. The question in this post, broadly, is this: Where is yours?
    Last edited by Amnaught; 2022-06-21 at 01:37 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    So levels and ilvl should be account wide. Swap your race and class and faction in rested zones. Alright man.

    Make transmog, barber, auctioneer, bank, guild bank, raid vendors, pvp vendors, mailbox, profession trainer, and great vault all the same NPC, an ethereal you can summon with a toy.

    Everybody draws a line between convenience and immersion somewhere. The question in this post, broadly, is this: Where is yours?
    I would say nothing of that is intrinsically making gameplay worse, but if you want to get technical that line is drawn by Blizzard and it's quite interesting how we always got qol and never "anti-qol"over the years...

    Your suggestion with the specs however would actively screw multispec players, here is an example on how to do it without that on your holy/shadow priest example and add some fun: upon swapping from holy to shadow or vice versa your character get's a few seconds a "migraine debuff", it does nothing else than that your character is holding his forehead for those few seconds.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Your suggestion with the specs however would actively screw multispec players, here is an example on how to do it without that on your holy/shadow priest example and add some fun: upon swapping from holy to shadow or vice versa your character get's a few seconds a "migraine debuff", it does nothing else than that your character is holding his forehead for those few seconds.
    Do you, or anyone, have a reason to want to "actively screw over" multi-race/class players by not allowing them to swap freely in rested areas.... that wouldnt be applicable to locking specs?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post

    - Locking each character to one specialization, but allowing them to spec into a subpar but viable-for-dungeons Damage role regardless of spec. HELL NO.

    - Changing glyphs and talents only by talking to Class Trainers. NO.

    - Tailors, Blacksmiths, Leatherworkers crafting items that you consume in order to transmog gear, instead of talking to an ethereal. NO.

    - But take items to an ethereal Void Storage in order to unlock them for transmog NO.

    - A battle pet stable master, and 3-slot pet carrier bag instead of a collection accessible everywhere NO.

    - Alchemists craft a recustomization potion, instead of barbers changing your face, skin color, and gender MAYBE.

    - Druid Forms selected at a Druid Trainer instead of barber NO.

    - Battlemaster npcs to join battlegrounds NO.

    - A new kind of meeting stone in all cities to queue for dungeons and raids NO, people should have to go to the dungeons.

    - Mounts are called by a whistle, and arrive after like ten seconds. NO.

    Etc...
    Mostly very bad ideas, they're just annoying for the sake of being annoying. Player interaction is good and Blizzard can definitely find good reasons for players to want to interact, but making things annoying is not the way.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    Quality of life changes are a common topic, making things more accessible at the cost of rpg immersion.

    What changes could be made AGAINST convenience, that would improve immersion?

    - Locking each character to one specialization, but allowing them to spec into a subpar but viable-for-dungeons Damage role regardless of spec.

    - Changing glyphs and talents only by talking to Class Trainers.

    - Tailors, Blacksmiths, Leatherworkers crafting items that you consume in order to transmog gear, instead of talking to an ethereal.

    - But take items to an ethereal Void Storage in order to unlock them for transmog

    - A battle pet stable master, and 3-slot pet carrier bag instead of a collection accessible everywhere

    - Alchemists craft a recustomization potion, instead of barbers changing your face, skin color, and gender

    - Druid Forms selected at a Druid Trainer instead of barber

    - Battlemaster npcs to join battlegrounds

    - A new kind of meeting stone in all cities to queue for dungeons and raids

    - Mounts are called by a whistle, and arrive after like ten seconds.

    Etc...
    Honestly I'd like to see qol features cut for social purposes. One thing I think would help direct players to hubs is making current content items sellable only at the related hub. Not for all loot, obviously, but for specific currencies and the like.

    Things like respeccing and getting new talents at class trainers, etc. etc.

    One thing, I'd keep in mind, is that when you give people access to everything everywhere it fragments the playerbase incredibly. This is a big part of why Auction houses haven't been in new city hubs outside of engineering.



    Hell, I'd say make the player hubs in each expansion accessible at all levels. Then just focus all the services there instead of having players spread out across cata, bfa, shadowlands and soon dragonflight.

    A new kind of meeting stone in all cities to queue for dungeons and raids "
    Think this is a great idea, along with a filter system. Focused more on actually playing old content It'd bring a lot of life back to old content especially if you can find other people interested in it. It'd be a lot better than the only option being to storm through on a higher level char or spend ages trying to get a group together at a low level.

    But maybe less dungeon finder esque and more game lobby esque. Since old content would be rather niche.
    Last edited by Brightforge-Blackwinglair; 2022-06-27 at 07:09 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustov View Post
    The only thing I could think of was to have players learn new class spells at their class trainers. That was one thing they should have kept. It's not a huge inconvenience, it'd be a one-time ordeal per spell. It would provide a purpose to all those derelict class trainers, and could provide an opportunity for them to do something- e.g. offer the player a tutorial on that spell, or queue them to the MoP role trial (can you still do that?), something to encourage them to have a minimum of competence at their class.
    I think the rule of thumb should be if you want to add something immersive back to the game, it still needs to have a purpose.

    I agree with you that some classes, going to your trainer was exciting. But really that was more with classes that had unique quests and mechanics to learn. I didn't really find anything fun about doing it on my warrior for instance other than getting the axe and beserker stance.

    I would be totally down for a return of class trainers but it should be accompanied by them actually teaching new players how to use interrupts and other class mechanics. Not to just arbitrarily go there an click an extra button.

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