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  1. #141
    They don't need to. But it's accepted in the community.

    Now why they do it.. is very simple. It is very easy to incentivize people to use money on power when you have them see what other people do with money. And with the power being behind loot boxes, you don't know how much money the powerful people have used. So you think small amount of money gets you somewhere. And once you use a bit, you have already justified using money to get power and the next step is to use more money. And once that's justified, what is another $100. Eventually you go out of money or you have the money and end up using thousands. And better yet, people with a lot of money are really competitive and are used to success in life. So getting those people competing against each other is winning the jackpot for the company.

    And that is just the basics of it all.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Give an example of a tactic in Diablo Immortal and I will translate it into Apple/Google/MS, because companies are not games.
    Please for the sake of yourself just shut up for a single second. Apple/microsoft hasn't done anything like Diablo Immortal.

  3. #143
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    Please for the sake of yourself just shut up for a single second. Apple/microsoft hasn't done anything like Diablo Immortal.
    Really? You do know MS bought Diablo Immortal?
    Also how them iPhone chargers hanging? The old one doesn't fit into the new one?
    I also got a perfectly working iPad but it's too old and it doesn't update to the latest iOS (there's absolutely not technical problem to do it - it's just not worth it for them) so I cannot use the latest apps on it. It's like they are telling me to buy a new one.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Really? You do know MS bought Diablo Immortal?
    Also how them iPhone chargers hanging? The old one doesn't fit into the new one?
    I also got a perfectly working iPad but it's too old and it doesn't update to the latest iOS (there's absolutely not technical problem to do it - it's just not worth it for them) so I cannot use the latest apps on it. It's like they are telling me to buy a new one.
    Whataboutism is about the only thing I can decipher out of that mumble jumbo

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Really? You do know MS bought Diablo Immortal?
    Also how them iPhone chargers hanging? The old one doesn't fit into the new one?
    I also got a perfectly working iPad but it's too old and it doesn't update to the latest iOS (there's absolutely not technical problem to do it - it's just not worth it for them) so I cannot use the latest apps on it. It's like they are telling me to buy a new one.
    Lmao. Yes, why would Apple upgrade to lightning from that chunky cable when they had the research to make a small connector? Why?
    Also, web developers are dropping web browser support for lesser reasons than a 5 year old CPU and RAM.

    You forgot Microsoft - Windows 11 doesn't work "on perfectly fine" CPUs, because they don't support their vision for Win 11, the bastards. It's like they are telling you to buy a new computer, because Microsoft stock rises when you spend money on Intel/AMD/nVidia/Dell/etc. /s
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  6. #146
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Lmao. Yes, why would Apple upgrade to lightning from that chunky cable when they had the research to make a small connector? Why?
    Also, web developers are dropping web browser support for lesser reasons than a 5 year old CPU and RAM.

    You forgot Microsoft - Windows 11 doesn't work "on perfectly fine" CPUs, because they don't support their vision for Win 11, the bastards. It's like they are telling you to buy a new computer, because Microsoft stock rises when you spend money on Intel/AMD/nVidia/Dell/etc. /s
    The irony of course it's exactly what they are doing and you are fine with it.
    You don't need the shiny new Intel CPU, you can get by with 8700. You don't need DDR5, You don't need PCIe 5. You don't need nvidia 40xx.
    But they are oh so more powerful +800% value! It's an investment! Buy now while the price is still high!
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  7. #147
    It’s just capitalism, man. We’ve seen it in everything from book publishing (churn out $2.99 ebooks; market on Twitter; quality is nothing; quantity is everything), TV series (end everything on cliffhangers; no more self-contained seasons; gotta get them to click ‘next episode’!), movies (everything is a remake or franchise; hit the right beats; make the right jokes; have the same music, theme, action scenes), and games. Someone identifies the easiest combination of effort/quality to reward, and then everyone does that thing. In mobile gaming, the difficulty/money ratio is best for P2W games. If you made more money by pouring in the effort to make a great single purchase game, that’s what people would do. But you don’t, because people spend money on P2W, so P2W makes more money, so that’s what we get.

    More broadly, it’s a combination of big data providing companies better insights/better more accurate “logs” and companies being meta slaves. So… internet-era late-stage capitalism.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The irony of course it's exactly what they are doing and you are fine with it.
    You don't need the shiny new Intel CPU, you can get by with 8700. You don't need DDR5, You don't need PCIe 5. You don't need nvidia 40xx.
    But they are oh so more powerful +800% value! It's an investment! Buy now while the price is still high!
    Yea I don't need it and don't have it. I agree with you - I'm fine with it. And yes, most of my computers throughout my life were an investment and they paid off.

    Amazing discussion so far.
    Last edited by ldev; 2022-06-26 at 11:52 AM.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I mean, if you think D:I is doing well, idk what to tell you.
    Bro, you are going on with a lot of stuff not even relevant to the thread or my initial post. All subjective stuff using language with ill-defined qualifiers. This is not worth discussing.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    PC manufacturers on the other hand seem to kill their CPUs around once every 6-12 months not to mention the "socket change" of intel which is a disgrace noone's talking about.
    Not sure where you're hearing this weird conspiracy theory. I mean, I kept using my 2500k for ~10 years.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    1.

    "Opinion"
    Stop being coy and pretending that review bombing isn't a thing.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    general answer: because they are free to play. who the fuck spends a shit load of money to create a game only to give it away for free. they either charge you 60 bucks for the game or leech 60 bucks off ya over two years thru microtransactions. the shittiest part about free games and microtransactions is the video game industry has followed suit so now you pay 60 bucks for a game only to have to pay more in MCT for the better lookin outfits. the coolest outfits are paid for not unlockable. console and pc gamers are getting fucked cause you cell phone fucks keep supporting their shitty MCT pay system. as long as you keep purchasing MCT they arent going away and are going to become more prevelant. my best friend plays raid shadow legends like its crack. he loves it because it is free to play. he has dumped over 500 dollars into a really shitty designed game with no end in sight (from a pay to win aspect this design is brilliant). while he has dumped $500 on his one cell phone game in the past year i have purchased over 25 games on steam that dont add up to 500. the worst part about it , is my best friend and i do not play games together anymore cause he is cracked out spending his money on his free to play game. his brother spent over 25k dollars in MCT on clash of clans. the 25k was his entire savings account. his dad had to bail him out. man the super computer i could build and the games i could purchase for 25k......

    Just to point out something about your little rant:

    The first microtransaction sold by a major publisher was in 2006 when Bethesda sold horse armor in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for $2.50. It was made as an experiment to test the market’s reaction to DLC. Most players reacted negatively, claiming that $2.50 for an in-game cosmetic item was too much. Despite the negativity, the horse armor became the ninth best selling DLC in Oblivion and was still being purchased more than two years after its release. Bethesda and other game studios began using microtransactions more as an extra stream of revenue. In 2008, the iOS store launched on Apple iPhones, and games there used microtransactions as their main source of funding. In the first three years after its launch, iOS apps made over $3.6 billion in revenue with over 15 billion downloads, and 80% of that revenue coming from mobile games. In an attempt to capture the success of microtransactions in mobile games, developers have added more microtransactions in PC and console games.

  13. #153
    yeah its a combination of upkeep costs, servers/data storage, development of new content, events etc. support. I dunno what the RMT is like for mobile games, I guess you probably can buy whale accounts maybe, but the way its setup forces a specific amount of sunk cost regardless of whether you bought an account or sunk enough funds to get one high enough on the whalemeter. I don't think they need to monetize these games as aggressively as they do, but I think if they didn't someone else would simply step in. a mobile game that has no p2w would only require time to get to whatever level. so you'd be able to sell that time to someone else. the idea here seems to be to make that completely irrelevant and to secure all the ways in which you can save time.

    a lot of these popular mobile games wouldn't last long if they didn't get updates, some of the older ones you can just break with excessive pay to win, fallout shelter for example, it doesn't get updated any more but the save file is local (installed from steam), so you can give yourself as many lunch boxes as you want and just break the game. I've played a bunch of mobile games at this point some are just copies of other games, lords mobile is very similar to the browser games that still exist like travian, there are a lot of mobile games that follow this template. pokemon GO is probably one of the least aggressively monetized yet popular mobile games. manages to do ok without overly monetizing. being a game aimed at kids though I suppose it has to be accessible to ppl without money. more mobile games could be like this but i'm not sure they would generate enough money to stay afloat, the whales keep these games going, if they aren't a huge IP like pokemon.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2022-06-27 at 12:35 AM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    Just to point out something about your little rant:

    The first microtransaction sold by a major publisher was in 2006 when Bethesda sold horse armor in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for $2.50. It was made as an experiment to test the market’s reaction to DLC. Most players reacted negatively, claiming that $2.50 for an in-game cosmetic item was too much. Despite the negativity, the horse armor became the ninth best selling DLC in Oblivion and was still being purchased more than two years after its release. Bethesda and other game studios began using microtransactions more as an extra stream of revenue. In 2008, the iOS store launched on Apple iPhones, and games there used microtransactions as their main source of funding. In the first three years after its launch, iOS apps made over $3.6 billion in revenue with over 15 billion downloads, and 80% of that revenue coming from mobile games. In an attempt to capture the success of microtransactions in mobile games, developers have added more microtransactions in PC and console games.
    Is that just a literal copy-paste from wikipedia?

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    This is insular, elitist BS. People are not dumb for enjoying themselves with mobile games than other forms of entertainment. These are hobbies and things people do with their free time. You are not entitled to any entertainment produced by others for any price other than what the owner of that media or entertainment decides it ought to cost.

    If someone wants to spend on Legos (which are crazy expensive & worthless to me), Sideshow collectibles, or a mobile game- there is no great or inherent nobility to any of those things than the other.
    I think that is an unfair comparison.
    Yes there are a lot of expensive hobbies but what makes mobile games bad is that their monetisation schemes include a lot of psychological traps, often intangled in each other.
    Yes you may think Lego is too expensive for what you get but you just buy a model and thats it. You don't have to buy lego bucks that are never sold in large enough quantities to actually buy a model, they don't sell you 3/4 finished models where you have to buy random packs that may or may not contain the pieces you need.
    All that stuff is what makes mobile game monetization so descpicable.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I think that is an unfair comparison.
    Yes there are a lot of expensive hobbies but what makes mobile games bad is that their monetisation schemes include a lot of psychological traps, often intangled in each other.
    Yes you may think Lego is too expensive for what you get but you just buy a model and thats it. You don't have to buy lego bucks that are never sold in large enough quantities to actually buy a model, they don't sell you 3/4 finished models where you have to buy random packs that may or may not contain the pieces you need.
    All that stuff is what makes mobile game monetization so descpicable.
    I see where you are coming from, but frankly, that is highly subjective.

    One person's $40 may not mean the same to another. You can't look at video games and hobbies as strictly value propositions.

  17. #157
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I think that is an unfair comparison.
    Yes there are a lot of expensive hobbies but what makes mobile games bad is that their monetisation schemes include a lot of psychological traps, often intangled in each other.
    Boi, how would you like this LIMITED EDITION Lego set only 100 in existence. Bids start at Carl Sagan.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I see where you are coming from, but frankly, that is highly subjective.

    One person's $40 may not mean the same to another. You can't look at video games and hobbies as strictly value propositions.
    But you can't buy that new dress for your virtual waifu for 40$, you have to buy a dresspack with 400 gamebucks. A gamebuck pack costs 10$ and can contain between 1 and 250 gamebucks. And your dresspack can contain one of 5 dresses or 20 totally unique portrait border colors!

    My problem are not the 40 bucks. People can spend what they want for their hobbies. But there are not a lot of mobile games where i can just buy something for a set euro price, there always is so much monetization bs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Boi, how would you like this LIMITED EDITION Lego set only 100 in existence. Bids start at Carl Sagan.
    Correct, fear of mission out is a thing with physical products, too. But that is nothing compared to virtual monetization schemes. Plus, as Seinfeld once said : "Limited? Yes it's limited to the number we can sell"

  19. #159
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    Because Humans have a hard time not falling into traps that trick their brain into thinking something "Good" is happening. Blame the reward centers of your brain, they're easily tricked and stimulated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shakzor View Post
    Probably an analogy to how a few whales, eat tons of fish/krill/whatever at once, compared to sharks, dolphins and other fish. So instead of eating lots of fish, they spend lots of money on bs mtx
    Not only that but, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a Shark, bigger than a Whale....
    (Fun Fact: The Whale Shark is closer to Whale, than shark, as it's diet consists of some of the smallest marine life, like a lot of the biggest Whales)
    <~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.

    <~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    But you can't buy that new dress for your virtual waifu for 40$, you have to buy a dresspack with 400 gamebucks. A gamebuck pack costs 10$ and can contain between 1 and 250 gamebucks. And your dresspack can contain one of 5 dresses or 20 totally unique portrait border colors!

    My problem are not the 40 bucks. People can spend what they want for their hobbies. But there are not a lot of mobile games where i can just buy something for a set euro price, there always is so much monetization bs.
    And some people really like that sort of thing. Others don't. It's why people budget X amount of dollars to literally throw away on a trip to Vegas. You don't have to like the same thing as them to respect that they like it.

    And yes, people get addicted to buying things when there's no chance involved as well. So lets not go down that rabbit hole yet again!

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