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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    If it's opnion-driven entertainment - why do you disagree with me?
    Because you're trying to artificially diversify a popularity contest to more favourably promote your own opinion that you don't like the current popular options, while presenting this as a community-wide problem that needs to be fixed.

    You're not merely giving your opinion, you're making an argument that something is broken and needs fixing. The only thing that's broken is your inability to regard that Youtube drama is not a Community-wide problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Truthfully and 100% honest - this is exactly what I want. I want the youtubers to fight and debate. That is entertaining for me - but it also puts up standards. It won't be enough to say "see - they betrayed us again!!". In that kind of enviourment - Bellular would have nothing to say or stay - and it would be enlightening. Maybe even new personalities pops up out of encouragement.

    Let's as community please set some standards up. It genuinely pleases me, that i'm not the only that dislikes Bellulars youtube algorthim skills(it could be any other bandwagon rider - determined to ruin this game).
    But you ALREADY have this.

    Plenty of other youtubers do 'reaction' videos of other youtubers. They're already doing what you're asking for, all while you're criticizing them in the same breath for influencing people too much and being paid for their opinions.

    You don't see the problem with this at all?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-06-21 at 03:13 AM.

  2. #62
    Stood in the Fire VMSmith's Avatar
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    So go watch and promote SoulSoBreezy and Hazel, both very positive YouTubers who are only critical of WoW in the gentlest of fashions. And ignore the YouTubers and streamers that annoy you. That's how you be a consumer of entertainment, you pick and choose what appeals to you, as does everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    The only responsibility streamers and youtubers have to their audience is to entertain them, they are literally modern day actors.

    And again, 80% or so of their hot takes (at least it sounds like too hot for you) are literally just the currently ongoing community sentiment in the game, people love confirmation bias for their "entertainment".
    Exactly, it's all entertainment. I'm not saying they don't believe what they say, but their goal is to entertain an audience of people who agree with what they say. If many people didn't agree with Asmongold and Bellular and whoever else then their channels would fade into nothingness because no one would be listening.

    The OP's problem is not really with YouTubers and streamers, it's with the fact that so many of the most invested people right now don't really like the game that the OP loves and that, apparently, bothers the OP. And, again, if you don't like criticism then don't expose yourself to it. Play like an ostrich, if you can't see it then it's not there. Just go play and have fun.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because you're trying to artificially diversify a popularity contest to more favourably promote your own opinion that you don't like the current popular options, while presenting this as a community-wide problem that needs to be fixed.

    You're not merely giving your opinion, you're making an argument that something is broken and needs fixing. That is why I disagree with you. If this was merely your opinion, I have no problem. But you're not framing this discussion as an opinion at all, that is the difference.
    You tend to sound more sophisticated, than you actually are - did you know that? You practically said nothing - but lot's of contradiction.

    Anyway - i'm just happy that people can see through BS. I'm anxious about content creators and thier influenze driven by money and dishonesty.

  4. #64
    I don't really watch him anymore, but they aren't all bad. The psychology of how Diablo Immortal manipulates people video wasn't bad.

    I guess he's got like 8-9 people working for him (somehow?) with his channels so he's got to put out something to pay the bills.

    But ya, he's definitely straying pretty close to the tabloid journalism equivalent of gaming news (which itself is already a pretty bad).

    He definitely goes through Reddit/4chan/Twitter to get the vibe of how people are feeling about certain topics and then makes cognitive bias videos based on the most popular beliefs.

    He doesn't really seem to ever have any unique/controversial takes on anything.
    Last edited by Mojo03; 2022-06-21 at 03:17 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because you're trying to artificially diversify a popularity contest to more favourably promote your own opinion that you don't like the current popular options, while presenting this as a community-wide problem that needs to be fixed.

    You're not merely giving your opinion, you're making an argument that something is broken and needs fixing. The only thing that's broken is your inability to regard that Youtube drama is not a Community-wide problem.

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    But you ALREADY have this.

    Plenty of other youtubers do 'reaction' videos of other youtubers. They're already doing what you're asking for, all while you're criticizing them in the same breath for influencing people too much and being paid for their opinions.

    You don't see the problem with this at all?
    I just figured out today, what the youtube algorthim is... That is how much I know about the subjet.

    If you can link some people, who are reacting on content creators - that would please me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    I don't really watch him anymore, but they aren't all bad. The psychology of how Diablo Immortal manipulates people video wasn't bad.

    I guess he's got like 8-9 people working for him (somehow?) with his channels so he's got to put out something to pay the bills.

    But ya, he's definitely straying pretty close to the tabloid journalism equivalent of gaming news (which itself is already a pretty bad).

    He definitely goes through Reddit/4chan/Twitter to get the vibe of how people are feeling about certain topics and then makes cognitive bias videos based on the most popular beliefs.

    He doesn't really seem to ever have any unique/controversial takes on anything.
    What got me the most was, after bashing enough products - he announced his own game studio and his own game(this was last year).

    Super fishy personality.

  6. #66
    Field Marshal Jacques's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Speaking of confirmation bias...
    Played the game for 15 years. I formed my own opinion over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I do care when people are reading from the wiki - without playing the game - while having 1M subs. This is misleading the community and it should had some responsibilities tied to it.

    Maybe i'm too much of a Blizzard boy - maybe/maybe.
    Responsibilities for an opinon about a video game? Sure, dude. And this is not a maybe. You're a deluded fanboy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    [...]
    I'm certain that any dev working at Blizzard - knew that the game wasn't ready. I don't see the value of the biggest content creators are pointing this out - I wish we had same quality expections to the content creators.

    Point is - why can't just have the full spectrum, instead of everybody saying it's not workin? Maybe i'm just expecting too much.
    So you don't see the point in valid criticism? In pointing out flawed systems and design decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I disagree. Asmon moved so many to FF - that officals at Blizzard went personal on him.

    Don't tell me that content creators don't have anything to say - especially - when they can influenze this many and thier opinion.

    This community needs more focus on selfthinking and this leaves spots open for pioneers in content creation.
    And why do you think this happend? Just because of Asmongolds godlike powers or because wow was so bad that people were ready to give other games a try?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    For me - he is the equivalent of a fakenews reporter(just like some few others). It's concerns me as they affect the community for personal gains.

    Can anyone following him/them give us some insight? Why did you make these people to something?
    I don't like clickbaity shit either but I accept that it is the one of the best ways youtubers can get people to watch a video. I wouldn't call his stuff fake news; he goes into a lot of detail in his actual videos. people who think otherwise are the kind of people who you see make on Facebook who make a comment on news articles; they go off the headline and don't actually read the article itself.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    If you can link some people, who are reacting on content creators - that would please me..
    I don't know about that.

    The fact that you've been criticizing Asmongold without knowing that Asmongold does reaction videos of other youtuber's content, and ofor influencing WoW while not actually knowing how the youtube algorithm actually works kinda tells me you don't actually watch Asmongold's content while openly criticizing him for being popular.

    So I'm not sure what you actually want to see, because I don't actually know who or what you watch or what made you even come to your opinion that the system/and-or community is completely broken.

    It really sounds like you're one of those internet movie critics who talks about how the industry is wrong and no one puts out a good movie any more, but only bases their opinions on movie trailers and not actually watching new movies.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-06-21 at 03:27 AM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    So go watch and promote SoulSoBreezy and Hazel, both very positive YouTubers who are only critical of WoW in the gentlest of fashions. And ignore the YouTubers and streamers that annoy you. That's how you be a consumer of entertainment, you pick and choose what appeals to you, as does everyone else.



    Exactly, it's all entertainment. I'm not saying they don't believe what they say, but their goal is to entertain an audience of people who agree with what they say. If many people didn't agree with Asmongold and Bellular and whoever else then their channels would fade into nothingness because no one would be listening.

    The OP's problem is not really with YouTubers and streamers, it's with the fact that so many of the most invested people right now don't really like the game that the OP loves and that, apparently, bothers the OP. And, again, if you don't like criticism then don't expose yourself to it. Play like an ostrich, if you can't see it then it's not there. Just go play and have fun.
    You are right about the assumptions and good take.

    Youtube algoritm is a scary thing for a person, who just figured it out. But alteast I know why I don't like Bellular now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    Played the game for 15 years. I formed my own opinion over the years.



    Responsibilities for an opinon about a video game? Sure, dude. And this is not a maybe. You're a deluded fanboy.


    So you don't see the point in valid criticism? In pointing out flawed systems and design decisions?



    And why do you think this happend? Just because of Asmongolds godlike powers or because wow was so bad that people were ready to give other games a try?
    Did you just take a bunch of answers out of context and answered them to prove a point?

    Good job bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I don't know about that.

    The fact that you've been criticizing Asmongold without knowing that Asmongold does reaction videos of other youtuber's content, and ofor influencing WoW while not actually knowing how the youtube algorithm actually works kinda tells me you don't actually watch Asmongold's content while openly criticizing him for being popular.

    So I'm not sure what you actually want to see, because I don't actually know who or what you watch or what made you even come to your opinion that the system/and-or community is completely broken.

    It really sounds like you're one of those internet movie critics who talks about how the industry is wrong and no one puts out a good movie any more, but only bases their opinions on movie trailers and not actually watching new movies.
    That is too much to take in. I don't know what you are trying to point out(sorry).

    But yes - I enjoy reaction videos. Especially if they react on content creators, who have responablitiy of more than a million sub and all they actually do is to play youtube algorithm. If that was what you were fishing for.

    Was that you trying to downtalk me?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    You are right about the assumptions and good take.

    Youtube algoritm is a scary thing for a person, who just figured it out. But alteast I know why I don't like Bellular now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did you just take a bunch of answers out of context and answered them to prove a point?

    Good job bro.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That is too much to take in. I don't know what you are trying to point out(sorry).

    But yes - I enjoy reaction videos. Especially if they react on content creators, who have responablitiy of more than a million sub and all they actually do is to play youtube algorithm. If that was what you were fishing for.

    Was that you trying to downtalk me?
    It's me literally confused at why you'd bring up Asmongold and making an example of him being a negative influence on the community, without actually having watched his content and deciding yourself whether he actually is a bad influence or not.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Rationalization and contradiction.

    We just have one problem in all this - Blizzard is not asking for an opinion. And we have bunch of "content creators" who needs to have an opinion in order to exist, who even now, is affecting our current communication.

    We need a person/group to balance these people out. Yes - polarization is required - and no - it's not a bad thing. You gave the woke example - I can equally give you the right/left groups in policitics, which are the necessary mechanics. I wish we had a content creator, who didn't follow bandwagon.

    ...
    There are popular youtuber and streamer who are always positive towards Blizzard like Taliesin and Evitel, Tradechat or Wowhead in general (they have purely positive articles about Diablo Immortal and even say that it isn't pay to win and legendary gems aren't that much of a power boost). You probably don't see videos or clips from them because of confirmation bias. Yes, Bellular and ASmongold start every expansion with mostly negative videos and end with mostly positive ones but that actually reflects the game. Every expansion starts with lots of problems like shadowlands started with very restrictive covenants, Torghast. legendaries and a whole lot of other problems and slowly over time they fixed those problem to a pooint that now at the end of the expansion most things are fixed or in a state that it's fine.

    In my opinion it's more dmaging for the game and community that channels like T&E or websites like wowhead are always positive towards Blizzard. Wowhead does a terrible job reporting about Diablo Immortal. Locking the comment section, talking only about how pretty the cosmetics in the shop are without talking about their price, telling people that it isn't really pay to win and that legendary gems don't give that much character power and you'll be fine. Or T&E back in BFA taliing about azerite armor and how their bonuses are actually better than tier sets and how wonderful it is to collect multiple sets of gear and how rewarding it is to unlock new rings with higher heart of azeroth levels. Always telling their community that there are no problems, there is no negativity and that even the worst ideas and decisions aren't bad but actually the best thing ever.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    There are popular youtuber and streamer who are always positive towards Blizzard like Taliesin and Evitel, Tradechat or Wowhead in general (they have purely positive articles about Diablo Immortal and even say that it isn't pay to win and legendary gems aren't that much of a power boost). You probably don't see videos or clips from them because of confirmation bias. Yes, Bellular and ASmongold start every expansion with mostly negative videos and end with mostly positive ones but that actually reflects the game. Every expansion starts with lots of problems like shadowlands started with very restrictive covenants, Torghast. legendaries and a whole lot of other problems and slowly over time they fixed those problem to a pooint that now at the end of the expansion most things are fixed or in a state that it's fine.

    In my opinion it's more dmaging for the game and community that channels like T&E or websites like wowhead are always positive towards Blizzard. Wowhead does a terrible job reporting about Diablo Immortal. Locking the comment section, talking only about how pretty the cosmetics in the shop are without talking about their price, telling people that it isn't really pay to win and that legendary gems don't give that much character power and you'll be fine. Or T&E back in BFA taliing about azerite armor and how their bonuses are actually better than tier sets and how wonderful it is to collect multiple sets of gear and how rewarding it is to unlock new rings with higher heart of azeroth levels. Always telling their community that there are no problems, there is no negativity and that even the worst ideas and decisions aren't bad but actually the best thing ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's me literally confused at why you'd bring up Asmongold and making an example of him being a negative influence on the community, without actually having watched his content and deciding yourself whether he actually is a bad influence or not.
    I can agree. I do enjoy T&E - I also agree, they are not as visable as Bellulars 'IS WOW dead NOW - more DRAGONS!? Deadwing RETURNS!?' vids.

    Reliazed the only person I need to avoid is Bellular and his friend(had a meltdown earlier).

    I will quit this thread - thanks for the insights/discussions
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-06-21 at 05:31 AM.

  13. #73
    Dayum OP you must be a genius, exposing their tricks just like that! I never noticed, dam, can I subscribe to your newsletter?

    /s
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  14. #74
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    When they gain traction they're most likely to use clickbait. It’s fine as long as you’re entertained, but you gave an example of someone who’s obnoxiously (and not occasionally) negative towards everything.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    We don't know if people care - we don't have the option. The only people we got - is people who are paid to have an youtube opinion. And you are the product of this - when you said, that Blizzard didn't listen us. You reliazed that, when I told you that they are not obliged to listen. And then you got personal.
    Lmao. You keep digging yourself into a grave.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Lmao. You keep digging yourself into a grave.
    What are you even saying? If you want to discuss - go ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Dayum OP you must be a genius, exposing their tricks just like that! I never noticed, dam, can I subscribe to your newsletter?

    /s
    What is that attitude? I just saw 3 posts - and you troll in all of them. Calm down.

  17. #77
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    The YouTube algorithm rewards clickbait thumbnails and titles, that is the strategy. And what better clickbait than making a false statement or shitting on something. Positive videos don't sell as well, don't have to be support of a company, or product, and can also just be making crafts/fan art or talking.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  18. #78
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    For your first point: This is popular for most Youtubers if you want to play the algorithm. Don't blame the creators blame YouTubes policy on how vids get recommended. The way Youtube works now is vastly different from the old days that its chased a lot of people of the platform, especially some of the older content creators I used to watch. with now YouTube being a dumping ground for twitch VODs. YouTube is a broken mess. If you don;t play the algorithm your videos wont get shown wont get picked up and the creator doesn't get paid. I used to love Jesse's Cox's content back in the day (still do), but Youtube has kind of killed his love for making videos. And the videos he does make you can tell its made to please the algorithm and you can tell from his thumbnails to the titling of his videos.

    As for your second point: If you are talking about Blizzard, well Blizzard deserve alot of that negativity, they have literally destroyed their reputation, and nearly everything they have done lately constantly makes mainstream news in a bad way. Its been a year since the misconduct investigation conducted by California and Blizzard are still sticking their foot in it, with their own investigation and Diablo Immoral they just keep taking L's. And its affected moral within the company and its affected their games, so yes Blizzard are in a negative place and in my opinion have fallen to what I call the trifactor of suckage in videogames. EA, Ubisoft, Acti-Blizz. Three companies I will never buy from. I can understand if you love their games and its depressing to keep hearing the negativity, but its literally how a majority of people feel and its how the company have made people feel. To ignore that is to ignore the horrible shit hey have done and you cannot turn a blind eye, bad behaviour needs to be called out. I do understand that it can be tiring, I am sick of hearing it too, but at the same time you cannot stay silent about these things
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-06-21 at 07:54 AM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  19. #79
    Ah, Baldular. The guy who sold his soul to YouTube for some hair plugs. I guess somebody has to make rageporn for the eternally mad ex-WoW player demographic, I just wish he wouldn't pretend to be unbiased when anybody with a shred of critical thinking skills can see right through him. The worst part is that you can use his BfA-era videos when he'd simp hard for Blizzard to defeat the assbackwards nonsense drivel he submits to the Algorithm God every other week these days.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    We don't know if people care - we don't have the option. The only people we got - is people who are paid to have an youtube opinion. And you are the product of this - when you said, that Blizzard didn't listen us. You reliazed that, when I told you that they are not obliged to listen. And then you got personal.
    You realize any idiot when a webcam can make a YouTube right? And if your good enough you can even get monetized and the algorithm will push you higher!

    It's even super easy to get started just have a webcam, a mic, and your own charming personality and you can fight the evil of *checks notes" world of Warcraft YouTubers

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