Youtuber strategy exposed?

[paxen]

Bellular has a couple of rather different outlooks. The videos on the Bellular Warcraft channel are always overall positive, and tries to find the best parts of Warcraft and talk about them. Meanwhile, their livestream is much more what they *actually* think, which at times comes of as extremely negative. Especially during late 9.0 and most of 9.1, which was a terrible time for the game. If you *weren't* critical of WoW during that time, that's when I suspect a paid shill.

The key to watching youtubers and get some information out of it, is that you have to know the streamer and their biases. Like you should with any critic. A movie review where you don't know the reviewer is pretty worthless, but as you come to know them and what they like, you can get far more out of a review if you want to know if you'll like the movie or not. Same applies to streamers.

The other part of streamers is, of course, if they're entertaining. I've watched a bit of Asmon, and I don't like his style. (And I also disagrees with most of his biases, so dumping him after he spent months making disaster porn out of the depp-heard trial was trivial for me). People say he's smart and knowledgeable, but that doesn't really matter when I a) disagree with him about most of what makes a good game and b) find him annoying more than entertaining.

The reverse would be Taliesin, where, like Bellular, his videos are going for finding the good parts of WoW, and his biases pretty much match my own, especially politically. So much so that whenever somebody is hating on Tali, 9 times out of 10 it's because they don't like his politics and as a consequence I don't agree, at all, with *their* politics and I can easily ignore them.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

It's also true that the majority of streamers are likely to be representative of the majority of people; mostly because the streamers are people.

They likely represent the majority view of their audience, that does not mean the majority of people!

Important distinction, same as any podcast/show/whatever. Bellular's (or whoever's) audience is not all wow players, just a certain type of them. Same as every other channel.

[Rennadrel]

Yeah no one can ever have an actual negative opinion about this amazing game, nah, never. It must be a strategy!

That same logic can also be applied to literally every other entertainment medium in the last few years too. The usual hitpieces come out when people on YouTube criticize what is ultimately either garbage or just meh products, whether it be films, TV shows or games. It's also why YouTubers have become a lot more trusted for reviews and opinions than sites like Screen/Game Rant, Polygon, Kotaku, etc etc. Because people speak their minds rather than just constantly praising garbage and mediocrity. But I think a lot of it is because the people working for those kinds of sites are more beholden to the creators for both financial gain and kickbacks for praising the latest thing and ardently defending it from the supposed "haters" and "the alt-right".

Of course, there are people who still shill for corporations that aren't access media creators.

[StillMcfuu]

I don't think pyromancer was ever disingenuous. An oblivious fanboy yes, but when he had his meltdown over how bad the lore has gotten and how he felt like he wasted years trying to explain the lore he quit wow alltogether. I think you can't even find his old videos anymore.

It wasn't that, it wasn't the lore that made him melt down, it was Blizz PR at the time. It went from one week he was a blizz lore shill to the next week he was too good for the lore and he "wasted his time". He's incredibly disingenuous. Basically when it became cool to hate blizz, he followed the cool path in complete lock step.

[HansOlo]

The go to argument when people don't like someone "bashing" a product is "go and make your own if you think it's so easy". Then, when people do it, those same people (I bet you have personally said this yourself at some point), call him "fishy" for doing exactly that?

Edit: Lol. That took less than 30 seconds



"If you think you can do better, become a game dev"
"Ew, he's developing a game while criticizing other games, that's super fishy"

I'm not a massive Bellular fan, I watch some of his stuff but find his style a bit cheesy and melodramatic, but your arguments are so obviously dictated by "he disagrees with me and he has influence, oh no" it's a joke.

Edit: Jesus christ, your post history is vomit inducing. You might be the biggest Blizzard shill I remember.

If you made out living, by bashing products and your motivation is money. That means you are disturbing my interests(by affecting the community), and many other hardworking people in the industry. You are literally playing with people's food(from the cleaners at Blizzard to supporting positive traffic at sites like MMO-C)

Screw these 'content creators'.

Bellular is just taking advantage of the community(now that the community can't think for itself anylonger). And it bothers me, as he doesn't come of genuine. Notice that I didn't even know anything about the algorithm - that's how obvious it is.

Watch Asmons reaction vid on Bellular. It kinda reveals Bellulars intention. This affects the rest of us, when the community instead starts talking about 'WoW is dead', 'Blizzard steals from you' rather than more positive, balanced or constructive notes.

[uuuhname]

Who do I describe:

1)Every footage/info released, you keep your subs hyped and motivated. Especially before expansions/patches:
All the thumbnails and clickbaits are positive - focus is, that Blizzard finally learned it.

2)Once every 2-3 month - you bash this company - especially after expansion release:
All the thumbnails and clickbaits are negative. Undertone is that Blizzard never gets it and we got betrayed once again.

This cycle repeats itself. You suddenly have borderline community, stuck in emotions(which is the biggest trigger). You can actually keep running this for a decade.

First hint: Bel...r - it can also be someone else.

Do you recognize this pattern or is it just me?

I mean, if this is how you get eye balls on your content, then that's how you get eye balls on your content. who knew running our social media platforms like a business would lead to people treating it like a business.

[Delekii]

If you made out living, by bashing products and your motivation is money. That means you are disturbing my interests(by affecting the community), and many other hardworking people in the industry. You are literally playing with people's food(from the cleaners at Blizzard to supporting positive traffic at sites like MMO-C)

Screw these 'content creators'.

Bellular is just taking advantage of the community(now that the community can't think for itself anylonger). And it bothers me, as he doesn't come of genuine. Notice that I didn't even know anything about the algorithm - that's how obvious it is.

Watch Asmons reaction vid on Bellular. It kinda reveals Bellulars intention. This affects the rest of us, when the community instead starts talking about 'WoW is dead', 'Blizzard steals from you' rather than more positive, balanced or constructive notes.

He would equally make a living out of praising products if the product was widely popular. The fact that bashing it is currently profitable is a representation of the game's current popularity, as well as probably just being his current opinion (by virtue of being.. again.. popular opinion).

Bellular has made plenty of videos that are about good games (he has heaped praise on ffxiv recently) but his primary game since the inception of the channel is wow, and wow is currently shit. It's not a conspiracy.

You're allowed to disagree with him, but discrediting him by convincing people he is disingenuously not representing his own opinion or something is nonsensical.

You're also removing the agency of the community by claiming they aren't thinking for themselves because they don't agree with you. You don't get a say in how people's opinions are formed other than your own, and the fact that they don't agree with yours doesn't make them wrong.

Again, it sucks when your opinion isn't supported, people spend a lot of time looking for reinforcement of their opinions and that is why Bellular is successful, but that in itself doesn't make him wrong or you right.

The likely chain of events for most people who have played the game is dislike the game > go to YouTube looking for reinforcement of that opinion, not like the game > go to YouTube and see Bellular doesn't like it > decide I don't like it now.

Most people who like the game just play the game.

Calling people who disagree with you sheep or exploitative is wrong. People disagree with you. Move on, play the game, or dont. Hell, make your own content if your that invested in people getting the "right" information. If people want to hear it, they will watch it

- - - Updated - - -

They likely represent the majority view of their audience, that does not mean the majority of people!

Important distinction, same as any podcast/show/whatever. Bellular's (or whoever's) audience is not all wow players, just a certain type of them. Same as every other channel.

Sure that's fair enough. That said, the op is claiming it is an issue affecting the entirety of the game, rather than a small subset.

[HansOlo]

He would equally make a living out of praising products if the product was widely popular. The fact that bashing it is currently profitable is a representation of the game's current popularity, as well as probably just being his current opinion (by virtue of being.. again.. popular opinion).

Bellular has made plenty of videos that are about good games (he has heaped praise on ffxiv recently) but his primary game since the inception of the channel is wow, and wow is currently shit. It's not a conspiracy.

You're allowed to disagree with him, but discrediting him by convincing people he is disingenuously not representing his own opinion or something is nonsensical.

You're also removing the agency of the community by claiming they aren't thinking for themselves because they don't agree with you. You don't get a say in how people's opinions are formed other than your own, and the fact that they don't agree with yours doesn't make them wrong.

Again, it sucks when your opinion isn't supported, people spend a lot of time looking for reinforcement of their opinions and that is why Bellular is successful, but that in itself doesn't make him wrong or you right.

The likely chain of events for most people who have played the game is dislike the game > go to YouTube looking for reinforcement of that opinion, not like the game > go to YouTube and see Bellular doesn't like it > decide I don't like it now.

Most people who like the game just play the game.

Calling people who disagree with you sheep or exploitative is wrong. People disagree with you. Move on, play the game, or dont. Hell, make your own content if your that invested in people getting the "right" information. If people want to hear it, they will watch it

- - - Updated - - -



Sure that's fair enough. That said, the op is claiming it is an issue affecting the entirety of the game, rather than a small subset.

But do you expect constructive outcome from this group? It's like men are getting reviews of women at Incels.

Thank you for creating Bellular for us. We could had been without, if people would quit instead of being borderline around the game. If the game is shit or not is up for a debate. We have a pool in another thread, that clearly states it's not.

[Kralljin]

It's like men are getting reviews of women at Incels.

Yes, because Women are in fact a product where i should first consider reading up some reviews before...purchase?

[HansOlo]

Yes, because Women are in fact a product where i should first consider reading up some reviews before...purchase?

Or -

As if satan would read up from the bible.

Clarifying:
Satan = Bellular.
Bible = WoW.
Audiance = poor gamers betrayed by god(Blizzard).

[Kralljin]

Or -

As if satan would read up from the bible.

Clarifying:
Satan = Bellular.
Bible = WoW.
Audiance = poor gamers betrayed by god(Blizzard).

So Bellular is the one that put temptation out in the world and gave us free will?

[Delekii]

But do you expect constructive outcome from this group? It's like men are getting reviews of women at Incels.

Thank you for creating Bellular for us. We could had been without, if people would quit instead of being borderline around the game. If the game is shit or not is up for a debate. We have a pool in another thread, that clearly states it's not.

I have no idea what any of this post means. All the words are English words that I know, but the sentences have functionally zero meaning.

Assuming I can apply some reasonable guesswork, the "constructive outcome" is to fix the game so it's not shit anymore. The only means of achieving this is to make it financially demanding for Blizzard not to do so, which means convincing people to stop paying money until they do so.

Like I said; you're allowed to have a different opinion to Bellular, or to me, or to anyone else. I don't mind that you enjoy the game; go for it. I don't, so it is in my interest to get the game fixed so that I do. You saying that I am a sheep because my opinion happens to align with Bellular, or that Bellular is faking it to get views, is nonsensical and misrepresentative. You don't have to agree with me, but you can fuck right off pretending that it's not my opinion.

If you want to argue in good faith, spend your time arguing against the argument rather than the medium of delivery or the honesty of the proponent. What you are doing is functionally straw-manning people that you disagree with. If you want people to believe that WoW is good and that they should stop consuming Bellular's content, explain why he is wrong, don't pretend he isn't sharing his own opinion.

[HansOlo]

I have no idea what any of this post means. All the words are English words that I know, but the sentences have functionally zero meaning.

Assuming I can apply some reasonable guesswork, the "constructive outcome" is to fix the game so it's not shit anymore. The only means of achieving this is to make it financially demanding for Blizzard not to do so, which means convincing people to stop paying money until they do so.

Like I said; you're allowed to have a different opinion to Bellular, or to me, or to anyone else. I don't mind that you enjoy the game; go for it. I don't, so it is in my interest to get the game fixed so that I do. You saying that I am a sheep because my opinion happens to align with Bellular, or that Bellular is faking it to get views, is nonsensical and misrepresentative. You don't have to agree with me, but you can fuck right off pretending that it's not my opinion.

If you want to argue in good faith, spend your time arguing against the argument rather than the medium of delivery or the honesty of the proponent. What you are doing is functionally straw-manning people that you disagree with. If you want people to believe that WoW is good and that they should stop consuming Bellular's content, explain why he is wrong, don't pretend he isn't sharing his own opinion.

You seem to misunderstand the premise - and I keep reapting myself.

I don't believe playing youtube algorithm contributes to anything remotely constructive.

But this guy exists to do this - regardless of how perfect the end product is. And it bothers me, that this indiviual got like 1M subs - all he is doing is misleading(if you ask me - there is a very strong evidens behind this).

People who are motivated by money, tends to be very misleading(you can see this on TV as well, when success is graded by ratings). And this subject really bothers me, as it creates disruption in the community.

[Delekii]

You seem to misunderstand the premise - and I keep reapting myself.

I don't believe playing youtube algorithm contributes to anything remotely constructive.

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it more correct; it just remains nonsense on repeat.

You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever that:
1. Bellular "plays the youtube algorithm";
2. why such a behavior would be problematic in any case;
3. why it is an issue in and of itself (rather than because it might lead to more people disagreeing with you);
4. why you think anyone should care about your opinion on the subject.

Your argument that he is "motivated by money" implies that he is saying things that he doesn't think are true, intentionally misleading people, or otherwise doing something "wrong" that he wouldn't be doing if not motivated by money. The onus is on you to prove this, it is not something you can just state and be expected to take on your merit.

Creating "disruption in the community" is the entire point of his recent WoW videos (and many others like him). As I have already proven, he creates videos that positively represent games as well, which means that he isn't solely creating negative videos from some belief that they garner more views. In the case of WoW, his opinion is that the game is on a bad path and needs adjustment, and disrupting the community so that they are likely to disrupt Blizzard is a means to that end. That they also garner more views and make him money is not a problem in and of itself unless you then prove the above list as well.

Your premise has zero intrinsic validity; it is based solely on your opinions and treats those opinions as facts. There is nothing intrinsically right about maintaining a harmonious community in the face of a floundering game, nor anything intrinsically wrong about causing disruption when it provides a path toward improvement. Both are opinions based on subjective interpretations of a given set of circumstances.

You say "there are very strong evidens [sic]" that he is misleading people but provide zero reference to that evidence besides your subjective opinion on the matter. If he is misleading people on a matter of fact, it won't be hard for you to post a link to that here.

[HansOlo]

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it more correct; it just remains nonsense on repeat.

You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever that:
1. Bellular "plays the youtube algorithm";
2. why such a behavior would be problematic in any case;
3. why it is an issue in and of itself (rather than because it might lead to more people disagreeing with you);
4. why you think anyone should care about your opinion on the subject.

Your argument that he is "motivated by money" implies that he is saying things that he doesn't think are true, intentionally misleading people, or otherwise doing something "wrong" that he wouldn't be doing if not motivated by money. The onus is on you to prove this, it is not something you can just state and be expected to take on your merit.

Creating "disruption in the community" is the entire point of his recent WoW videos (and many others like him). As I have already proven, he creates videos that positively represent games as well, which means that he isn't solely creating negative videos from some belief that they garner more views. In the case of WoW, his opinion is that the game is on a bad path and needs adjustment, and disrupting the community so that they are likely to disrupt Blizzard is a means to that end. That they also garner more views and make him money is not a problem in and of itself unless you then prove the above list as well.

Your premise has zero intrinsic validity; it is based solely on your opinions and treats those opinions as facts. There is nothing intrinsically right about maintaining a harmonious community in the face of a floundering game, nor anything intrinsically wrong about causing disruption when it provides a path toward improvement. Both are opinions based on subjective interpretations of a given set of circumstances.

You say "there are very strong evidens [sic]" that he is misleading people but provide zero reference to that evidence besides your subjective opinion on the matter. If he is misleading people on a matter of fact, it won't be hard for you to post a link to that here.

Nonsens. You know that I can't prove - it's the same premise when athiests say prove the picture of God.

If majority in this thread, calling him BS - is for a fact supporting my observations(one way or another). I did my best to analyse his behaviour and I exposed myself during that process.

You are basically having a fight with me for the sake of it and frankly, dont contribute to anything.

Put the monocle down.

Don't have time - I might be planning a rally on YouTube.

[Delekii]

Nonsens. You know that I can't prove - it's the same premise when athiests say prove the picture of God.

If majority in this thread, calling him BS - is for a fact supporting my observations. I did my best to analyse his behaviour and I exposed myself.

You are basically having a fight with me for the sake of it and frankly, dont contribute to anything.

Don't have time.

You're right, that's EXACTLY what it is like.

You believe something without any evidence, call atheists full of shit and "disrupting the community", use your own circle-jerking community and made-up literature as "evidence" and when they demand proof of you you say "you know I can't prove it, that's not fair!"

I couldn't have picked a better analogy if I'd tried. You "analyzed" his behavior only insofar as it clashes with your opinion, in an incredibly biased and unobjective way. You believe this thread somehow supports your hypothesis, despite the fact that you did exactly what you claim he does, by creating a leading thread title that intrinsically aims to draw people sharing your opinion, and still don't actually have a majority of people supporting what you are saying (again; you interpret what you see only in a way that supports your belief).

I'm not having a fight with you for the sake of it, I'm having a fight with you because you create unerringly biased threads with clear ulterior motive and try to claim that OTHER PEOPLE act in shady, unfair manners because they don't align with your beliefs. You are a walking definition of hypocrisy. Anyone who clicks on your post history can see in mere seconds the type of person you are.

If you don't have time, don't make the thread on a discussion forum. Don't make posts that are full of shit, shit on content creators and other people, call their opinions "sheepish" and claim them to be only a manner of chasing the youtube buck, and then fail to back up those claims with any semblance of reasonable evidence.

Hell, you even want someone else to start a channel doing the EXACT SAME THING, only on your side of the fence, completing the full rotunda of hypocritical flubber.

Please start a channel, where you call out on all these people, based on thier own material - like some journalist.

Let's just have one guy, who can balance this out - just a little bit. It would be so refreshing with such debate.

Ill sub to you - and even better if you stream.

The absurdity of your hypocrisy is laughable. Go ahead and make the channel that aims to counteract Bellular; if you are correct and people support you and your position, I'm sure it will blow up to be a raging success. Of course, that means you are exactly the person you claim Bellular is; I guess you're in a bit of a Catch-22!

[Cthulhu 2020]

"People make negative videos about WoW and Blizzard games only because negativity gets them money!"

Yes which is why most games have overwhelmingly negative videos about them! Because negativity makes money!

... wait. No. Most games actually have incredibly positive videos about them. Maybe WoW has just been shit for awhile now? And every time Blizzard releases a new trailer there's tons of hype around it, people have hopium that it will be good, then it releases unfinished, buggy, no content but raiding, boring grinds to keep players logging in, etc. an the cycle repeats.

[HansOlo]

You're right, that's EXACTLY what it is like.

You believe something without any evidence, call atheists full of shit and "disrupting the community", use your own circle-jerking community and made-up literature as "evidence" and when they demand proof of you you say "you know I can't prove it, that's not fair!"

I couldn't have picked a better analogy if I'd tried. You "analyzed" his behavior only insofar as it clashes with your opinion, in an incredibly biased and unobjective way. You believe this thread somehow supports your hypothesis, despite the fact that you did exactly what you claim he does, by creating a leading thread title that intrinsically aims to draw people sharing your opinion, and still don't actually have a majority of people supporting what you are saying (again; you interpret what you see only in a way that supports your belief).

I'm not having a fight with you for the sake of it, I'm having a fight with you because you create unerringly biased threads with clear ulterior motive and try to claim that OTHER PEOPLE act in shady, unfair manners because they don't align with your beliefs. You are a walking definition of hypocrisy. Anyone who clicks on your post history can see in mere seconds the type of person you are.

If you don't have time, don't make the thread on a discussion forum. Don't make posts that are full of shit, shit on content creators and other people, call their opinions "sheepish" and claim them to be only a manner of chasing the youtube buck, and then fail to back up those claims with any semblance of reasonable evidence.

Hell, you even want someone else to start a channel doing the EXACT SAME THING, only on your side of the fence, completing the full rotunda of hypocritical flubber.

The absurdity of your hypocrisy is laughable. Go ahead and make the channel that aims to counteract Bellular; if you are correct and people support you and your position, I'm sure it will blow up to be a raging success. Of course, that means you are exactly the person you claim Bellular is; I guess you're in a bit of a Catch-22!

I actually tried to discuss with you. But the only thing you are able to, is to stop words in my mouth.

Stop the quote war with me and calm down.

I told you. I believe if money is the motivation in this, then it is per default deemed to mislead. And Bellular in this example, is the perfect stereotype. You asked for proof - read the comments about him in this thread. That is my whole point. Full period.

If you disagree - then come with counter arguments.

Also - stop calling people full of shit when you don't agree.

- - - Updated - - -

"People make negative videos about WoW and Blizzard games only because negativity gets them money!"

Yes which is why most games have overwhelmingly negative videos about them! Because negativity makes money!

... wait. No. Most games actually have incredibly positive videos about them. Maybe WoW has just been shit for awhile now? And every time Blizzard releases a new trailer there's tons of hype around it, people have hopium that it will be good, then it releases unfinished, buggy, no content but raiding, boring grinds to keep players logging in, etc. an the cycle repeats.

You know that the YouTube people who bash Diablo Immortal, is the same people who praises Lost Ark(even though is worse P2W).

I just want a standard to clean up what's going on. It's a trend to bash Blizzard. But I don't necessarily agree with this.

[VMSmith]

It's a trend to bash Blizzard.

Have you ever considered that most people may agree that Blizzard deserves "trashing" right now, for a variety of reasons?

Trends don't happen because most people disagree with the trend, it's because it speaks to them. The Youtubers you are up in arms about can only succeed because most people agree with what they're saying, which leads to the conclusion that maybe they have some good points. It doesn't happen because so many people wake up one morning and think "Hmm, for no good reason I'm going to start talking shit about Blizzard and WoW. That might be fun!". I guarantee that every person who has a problem with WoW and Blizzard's directions wishes they were as wholesome as they once seemed and that the game was just real good fun.

[Santti]

I don't watch streamers mostly because I can make up my own mind about how I think about any given thing. Opinionated rants aren't helpful and even if I did watch from time to time I would never donate to them. There's little else to say.

Yeah, I don't think I've ever watched a single streamer talk about WoW in any capacity, over the... 17'ish years I've played. Well, except Totalbiscuit, but I pretty much only ever watched his other content.

I couldn't even recognize Bellular. I know Asmongold, but only because I'm getting some serious, irrational uncanny valley vibes from that face of his, to a point I went and searched Google for a way to forever block channels like they never existed, just so I didn't have to see it, ever again.

...

Anyway, if WoW wasn't so boring to watch, I might have enjoyed watching someone else play it. But alas, it is boring, so I watch content related to other games instead.

- - - Updated - - -

Have you ever considered that most people may agree that Blizzard deserves "trashing" right now, for a variety of reasons?

Trends don't happen because most people disagree with the trend, it's because it speaks to them. The Youtubers you are up in arms about can only succeed because most people agree with what they're saying, which leads to the conclusion that maybe they have some good points. It doesn't happen because so many people wake up one morning and think "Hmm, for no good reason I'm going to start talking shit about Blizzard and WoW. That might be fun!". I guarantee that every person who has a problem with WoW and Blizzard's directions wishes they were as wholesome as they once seemed and that the game was just real good fun.

Did you know it's a trend to think fire is hot? They don't actually think that, they just want to fit in.