Youtuber strategy exposed?

[Kithelle]

I mean is it "exposed"? A lot of them do this...they even say sometimes that they're done only to show up next expansion

[shadowmatrix]

They paid them? My day keeps getting more depressive.

Where is the consumer in all this. Are we just all sheeps?

Many are sheep, otherwise why did FFXIV suddenly become a "new game" just because the streamers who ignored it for years suddenly decided to sing it's praises. Too much emphasis is put on people who get paid to play 6+ hours a day and have viewers ready to carry them through any obstacle they come across.

[kieraTM]

Not played WoW for years, but when I did I would respect his videos. Always seemed pretty level headed and thoughtful. However, I recently watched his video on SWtOR (and MMO I play daily) and it was dire. He used another streamers videos and essentially read out a wiki page. Kind of felt like WoW news was lacking so he tried to make a SWtOR video obviously without playing the game himself

[Swnem]

Oh get over it. Every Youtuber does that. Even Mr Happygamer that just seems to like everything under the sun made a video of games he hates.
Get over yourself. Stop caring so much about what others say.

Not that i am saying WoW is a good game, cause i'm not. It's not good at all and i completely understand people venting frustrations on such a bad dev team that seems to live in the past.

All i'd like is to see more talent trees, cause i know that the game itself will just be more of Shadowlands with a new paint job and all new annoyances to replace crafted leggys and covenants.
It's clear they don't have the budget to do much more anymore. They don't have the courage to change much either.
It's a case of managing expectations at this point. Keep them low and realistic and it's alright.

[exochaft]

When Blizzard is failing to listen to the content creators even when they're completely on the mark with what's wrong with the game and the direction it's taken, it's pretty clear that 'ultimately' Blizzard is doing whatever the fuck they want regardless of any content creator's opinions.

I mean look at all the content creators that spoke out on Shadowlands Alpha/beta and pointed out how the Covenant system was complete illusion of choice, and will favour exploits in balance. It all ended up with Blizzard having to own up to mistakes a year into Shadowlands, and try and course correct with 9.2, way past late.

No amount of content creator feedback will really influence Blizzard's own direction with the game. At the end of the day, you're choosing to be affected by youtuber hatespeech and using bullshit confirmation bias to imply that it's making the game go into a worse direction, when in reality if the game goes in a worse direction the blame squarely falls at Blizzard's own internal decisions, not any youtuber regardless of preaching constructive criticisms or 'hatespeech'.

The reality is Blizzard can't act on all the feedback. They act to what they are able to feasibly manage under the budgetary constraints and limited resources they have available to them; and yes billion dollar companies do still have budgets and finances to deal with like any other company. Don't let confirmation bias from content creators influence your perspective otherwise. No Bellular or Preach or Asmongold has the power to affect Blizzard's ability to make a good or bad expansion. Even if all doomsaying was quelched from the internet, Blizzard themselves are restricted by their own internal goals and financial limits to meet any demand the fans have. The game's failings are due to its own design.

If you're talking about the community taking a stand to fix other parts of the community, then you're just doing the exact same I've warned you about above. You're intentionally diving into the shark-infested waters of Youtube Drama and you want everyone to work on getting rid of the sharks. That's not a reasonable solution to your problem. The problem is you choosing to dive into shark infested waters when you should know better not to.

Stances on the YouTubers aside, their affect on Blizz is only as much as they allow... which is almost nothing in most cases. I'm not a big-time streamer or YouTube content creator, but I was an alpha/beta tester for Shadowlands, and with my own testing I came to pretty much the exact same conclusions that a lot of streamers did at the time in terms of the state of Shadowlands. Guarantee I'm not the only one in this camp, quite a few of the issues with the game were bloody obvious if you're even a semi-serious tester. Even with the delay, it was obvious that the game was still not ready. What happened? Game launched in its terrible state anyways. Part of this is likely due to the bean counters at Blizz saying they couldn't put off release any longer, the other part is that Blizz ignored a lot of feedback intentionally or unintentionally (evidenced by the blue posts that came out later that gaslit the situation something fierce). Either way, this sort of thing has been happening more and more, which is also why 9.1.5 ended up being the "let's try to shove everything into the game that players have been asking for" patch. I don't believe it was completely genuine, as it was likely a last-ditch effort to try to make themselves look better while trying to staunch the player losses.

If we're talking about YouTubers in general, this is something each individual has to make a decision on for themselves. There are some YouTubers that are legit and genuine, there are some that are in it for the grift. What should be said is that the YouTube algorithm is a fickle mistress, and if you want your content to be seen (because who doesn't if you're making content on YouTube?), sometimes you have to make thumbnails or titles a certain way so they get promoted or seen. It's like making a resume or filling out a job application: there's things that are looked for in terms of subject matter and phrases that will increase your chances of getting hired or at least further in the process, and while many people would never talk that way about themselves or use that specific verbiage in normal conversation or writing, you're constrained by what the system is and not playing by the rules of the game is just shooting yourself in the foot. Sometimes the rules suck, but often there isn't a viable alternative beyond following the rules.

As a slight aside, streamers with respect to WoW are nowhere near the level of shilling that you get for major corporations like Disney or Amazon. Some are directly funded and produced by the corporations, others just are addicted to the tainted Kool-Aid and will be the mouthpiece of the corporation until the end of time. When someone's takes swing back and forth between being for or against a corporation's products or stances on things, there's a higher chance that their views are genuine compared to someone who always supports the corporation no matter what. At this point, a better generalization is you should be more worried about YouTubers and content creators who will never go against the corporation they support than anyone who occasionally or mostly goes against them. Again, this is generalization, not a hard-fast rule.

Even most of the content creators mentioned in this thread genuinely want Blizz to make good games and products because they, like many, want Blizz to succeed the right way. Furthermore, you can get way more content and spin-off content when the products put out are good versus bad, and that's not even including the perks/bonuses you'd get from Blizz for supporting their products. Think about it: if you're take on a game is that it's terrible, and you potentially are convincing people the game is bad to where they won't play it, that's shooting yourself in the foot (especially if that game is the only content you cover). Many YouTubers critical of content (even beyond WoW) are keenly aware of this, but they would rather stick to their honest opinions than make a quick buck. Other YouTubers have little or no morality and would lie to their audiences to keep interest in their flagship channel draw in order to keep the money coming it. Again, being a positive shill is a much easier and reliable way to keep YouTube revenue coming in, even if it means not being honest and a mouthpiece of whatever company you shill for.

[HansOlo]

Oh get over it. Every Youtuber does that. Even Mr Happygamer that just seems to like everything under the sun made a video of games he hates.
Get over yourself. Stop caring so much about what others say.

Not that i am saying WoW is a good game, cause i'm not. It's not good at all and i completely understand people venting frustrations on such a bad dev team.

All i'd like is to see more talent trees, cause i know tgat the game itself will just be more of Shadowlanss with a new paint job.
It's clear they don't have the budget to do much more anymore.

I do care when people are reading from the wiki - without playing the game - while having 1M subs. This is misleading the community and it should had some responsibilities tied to it.

Maybe i'm too much of a Blizzard boy - maybe/maybe.

[Caprias]

I do care when people are reading from the wiki - without playing the game - while having 1M subs. This is misleading the community and it should had some responsibilities tied to it.

Maybe i'm too much of a Blizzard boy - maybe maybe.

The only responsibility streamers and youtubers have to their audience is to entertain them, they are literally modern day actors.

And again, 80% or so of their hot takes (at least it sounds like too hot for you) are literally just the currently ongoing community sentiment in the game, people love confirmation bias for their "entertainment".

[Triceron]

We don't know if people care - we don't have the option. The only people we got - is people who are paid to have an youtube opinion. And you are the product of this - when you said, that Blizzard didn't listen us. You reliazed that, when I told you that they are not obliged to listen. And then you got personal.

What's that have to do with youtube content creators?

Blizzard doesn't act on the feedback they take in, whether they are 'listening' or not. They can only do so much with the resources they have at their disposal. I don't watch any youtube content creators and I can easily tell you this information.

That you think 'the only people we got is youtuber opinions' is the first and only part of your problem. Like I said, you fix 100% of your Twitter problems if you don't use Twitter.

'I am sick and tired of Youtube Content Creator opinions, we need a Youtube Content Creator who can expose them' is nothing but a need for vindication.

[Nzx]

Bellular is the type of guy who decides to start a project to fully voice act a game he "loves" when the community loves it, and then gets a cease and desist for breaking copyright law and magically decides every decision the company makes is bad.

Preach is the fucking worst for this sort of shit. Back in Legion 7.0 he made video after video crying about his mage getting Sephuz first and therefore getting benched and how it was optimal to reroll instead of grind for another legendary, and then when general opinion changed in 7.3 and legendaries became easy to get he made a video calling everyone who said the legendary system was always bad a liar, and that it was "revisionist history", and that getting a different legendary at the beginning of the expansion just made him come up with a new playstyle. Now the community fanboys FF14, all of a sudden that's the greatest storytelling of all time.

I've unsubscribed from these people and avoid their content as much as possible - unfortunately the most vocal in this community are the kind of people who don't have their own opinions and just parrot what they hear from whoever they donate the most money to on Twitch, which means inevitably you hear the same shit takes every where you go and the only option is to disengage from the community entirely (which I massively recommend).

[HansOlo]

Stances on the YouTubers aside, their affect on Blizz is only as much as they allow... which is almost nothing in most cases. I'm not a big-time streamer or YouTube content creator, but I was an alpha/beta tester for Shadowlands, and with my own testing I came to pretty much the exact same conclusions that a lot of streamers did at the time in terms of the state of Shadowlands. Guarantee I'm not the only one in this camp, quite a few of the issues with the game were bloody obvious if you're even a semi-serious tester. Even with the delay, it was obvious that the game was still not ready. What happened? Game launched in its terrible state anyways. Part of this is likely due to the bean counters at Blizz saying they couldn't put off release any longer, the other part is that Blizz ignored a lot of feedback intentionally or unintentionally (evidenced by the blue posts that came out later that gaslit the situation something fierce). Either way, this sort of thing has been happening more and more, which is also why 9.1.5 ended up being the "let's try to shove everything into the game that players have been asking for" patch. I don't believe it was completely genuine, as it was likely a last-ditch effort to try to make themselves look better while trying to staunch the player losses.

If we're talking about YouTubers in general, this is something each individual has to make a decision on for themselves. There are some YouTubers that are legit and genuine, there are some that are in it for the grift. What should be said is that the YouTube algorithm is a fickle mistress, and if you want your content to be seen (because who doesn't if you're making content on YouTube?), sometimes you have to make thumbnails or titles a certain way so they get promoted or seen. It's like making a resume or filling out a job application: there's things that are looked for in terms of subject matter and phrases that will increase your chances of getting hired or at least further in the process, and while many people would never talk that way about themselves or use that specific verbiage in normal conversation or writing, you're constrained by what the system is and not playing by the rules of the game is just shooting yourself in the foot. Sometimes the rules suck, but often there isn't a viable alternative beyond following the rules.

As a slight aside, streamers with respect to WoW are nowhere near the level of shilling that you get for major corporations like Disney or Amazon. Some are directly funded and produced by the corporations, others just are addicted to the tainted Kool-Aid and will be the mouthpiece of the corporation until the end of time. When someone's takes swing back and forth between being for or against a corporation's products or stances on things, there's a higher chance that their views are genuine compared to someone who always supports the corporation no matter what. At this point, a better generalization is you should be more worried about YouTubers and content creators who will never go against the corporation they support than anyone who occasionally or mostly goes against them. Again, this is generalization, not a hard-fast rule.

Even most of the content creators mentioned in this thread genuinely want Blizz to make good games and products because they, like many, want Blizz to succeed the right way. Furthermore, you can get way more content and spin-off content when the products put out are good versus bad, and that's not even including the perks/bonuses you'd get from Blizz for supporting their products. Think about it: if you're take on a game is that it's terrible, and you potentially are convincing people the game is bad to where they won't play it, that's shooting yourself in the foot (especially if that game is the only content you cover). Many YouTubers critical of content (even beyond WoW) are keenly aware of this, but they would rather stick to their honest opinions than make a quick buck. Other YouTubers have little or no morality and would lie to their audiences to keep interest in their flagship channel draw in order to keep the money coming it. Again, being a positive shill is a much easier and reliable way to keep YouTube revenue coming in, even if it means not being honest and a mouthpiece of whatever company you shill for.

Can I ask you this - now that you have some experience in that community(assuming you are/were a youtuber):

Why didn't you bring up the reasonings behind the quality check? Could it be a reaction to the pandemic? Could it be lack of budgetting? Just some good old general journalism - instead of reading something up from a lore book?

I'm certain that any dev working at Blizzard - knew that the game wasn't ready. I don't see the value of the biggest content creators are pointing this out - I wish we had same quality expections to the content creators.

Point is - why can't just have the full spectrum, instead of everybody saying it's not workin? Maybe i'm just expecting too much.

[Hablion]

They paid them? My day keeps getting more depressive.

Where is the consumer in all this. Are we just all sheeps?

IF amazon did pay there would of been some sort of disclaimer/disclosure otherwise the Government would come down hard.

[HansOlo]

What's that have to do with youtube content creators?

Blizzard doesn't act on the feedback they take in, whether they are 'listening' or not. They can only do so much with the resources they have at their disposal. I don't watch any youtube content creators and I can easily tell you this information.

That you think 'the only people we got is youtuber opinions' is the first and only part of your problem. Like I said, you fix 100% of your Twitter problems if you don't use Twitter.

I disagree. Asmon moved so many to FF - that officals at Blizzard went personal on him.

Don't tell me that content creators don't have anything to say - especially - when they can influenze this many and thier opinion.

This community needs more focus on selfthinking and this leaves spots open for pioneers in content creation.

[xero5141]

That's not really a problem specific to Belluar. That's more of a problem with how we have an entire generation of men that has grown up taking instructions from people on Youtube. People don't think for themselves anymore.

I'm not sure what you're implying here, that somehow a previous generation is more competent because they didn't have youtube?

[Triceron]

I disagree. Asmon moved so many to FF - that officals at Blizzard went personal on him.

Don't tell me that content creators don't have anything to say - especially - when they can influenze this many and thier opinion.

This community needs more focus on selfthinking and this leaves spots open for pioneers in content creation.

People also moved to FF because Shadowlands was shit.

Even Gabe Newell came out in an interview and said he moved to FF, and he'd been a long-time veteran of WoW who even played Shadowlands, and blatantly stated that the game was just too 'meh' now.

Again, your issue is confirmation bias. You hear a Youtuber doing or saying something that you see trends of many people following, and you decide that it's a problem that affects the community at large, when the whole problem stemmed from Shadowlands being shit affecting the community at large.

If you're advocating self-thinking, then the last thing you should be doing is advocating more youtube content creators who ultimately influence more opinions away from self-thinking.

You don't put out a dumpster fire by adding more fire to it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not sure what you're implying here, that somehow a previous generation is more competent because they didn't have youtube?

They're not 'more competent', they're 'less influenced by the pervasive tribalistic media that exists today'.

[HansOlo]

People also moved to FF because Shadowlands was shit.

Even Gabe Newell came out in an interview and said he moved to FF, and he'd been a long-time veteran of WoW who even played Shadowlands, and blatantly stated that the game was just too 'meh' now.

Again, your issue is confirmation bias. You hear a Youtuber doing or saying something that you see trends of many people following, and you decide that it's a problem that affects the community at large, when the whole problem stemmed from Shadowlands being shit affecting the community at large.

If you're advocating self-thinking, then the last thing you should be doing is advocating more youtube content creators who ultimately influence more opinions away from self-thinking.

You don't put out a dumpster fire by adding more fire to it.

Fact this - Asmon did move so many, that it affected the management at Blizzard. I don't care if Gabe or Bobby moved. We are talking about influenze. In fact - I will argue with Asmon has much more influenze, than Gabe in the community.

And I disagree - we need more youtubers - because content creation is not going anywhere. Misleading the community - will kill the game in the end - so it's required that someone would balance this out.

It's like you saying - the whole thing started with monarchy - so we can't have democracy.

[Triceron]

Fact this - Asmon did moved so many, that it affected the management at Blizzard. I don't care if Gabe or Bobby moved. We are talking about influenze. In fact - I will argue with Asmon has much more influenze, than Gabe in the community.

And I disagree - we need more people - because content creation is not going anywhere.

It's like you saying - the whole thing started with monarchy - so we can't have democracy.

Except content creation is not a system of government, nor a suitable replacement for it.

Content creation is entertainment, plain and simple. It's opinion-driven entertainment that profits off its intentional biases. You're advocating for monarchy to be replaced with military coups putting in a different monarch to 'balance things out'. You don't end up with a better system of governance through this.

You're trying to fix the problem with more of the same problem. You're adding fire to a dumpster fire.

I can even give you a direct example of how and why your system doesn't work, because the very thing you're criticizing (monetized opinions) happens to be exactly what any youtuber who 'exposes' other youtubers would be profiting off of. The drama they generate is what will make them money, and you will see them generate more and more needless drama and 'truthtelling' for the sake of clicks. You literally are asking to replace Asmongold with a shadier, community-splitting youtuber who makes their money off generating drama.

And such youtubers already exist in MANY other fandoms. Youtubers who literally make a living off 'exposing' other youtubers within the same fan community. These are generally the assholes of the community, not the solution.

[HansOlo]

Except content creation is not a system of government, nor a suitable replacement for it.

Content creation is entertainment, plain and simple. It's opinion-driven entertainment that profits off its intentional biases. You're advocating for monarchy to be replaced with celebrities, that's the difference.

If it's opnion-driven entertainment - why do you disagree with me?

I'm litteraly asking for more diverse selection(althou requiring that they would move against the algorthim - it would be SO refreshing).

[Tojara]

Bellular is the type of guy who decides to start a project to fully voice act a game he "loves" when the community loves it, and then gets a cease and desist for breaking copyright law and magically decides every decision the company makes is bad.

Preach is the fucking worst for this sort of shit. Back in Legion 7.0 he made video after video crying about his mage getting Sephuz first and therefore getting benched and how it was optimal to reroll instead of grind for another legendary, and then when general opinion changed in 7.3 and legendaries became easy to get he made a video calling everyone who said the legendary system was always bad a liar, and that it was "revisionist history", and that getting a different legendary at the beginning of the expansion just made him come up with a new playstyle. Now the community fanboys FF14, all of a sudden that's the greatest storytelling of all time.

I've unsubscribed from these people and avoid their content as much as possible - unfortunately the most vocal in this community are the kind of people who don't have their own opinions and just parrot what they hear from whoever they donate the most money to on Twitch, which means inevitably you hear the same shit takes every where you go and the only option is to disengage from the community entirely (which I massively recommend).

This is a big reason why I just don't consume social media, youtube or twitch in general. Most personalities don't know what the fuck they're talking about and will praise something one minute, and hate it the next minute. If it's cool to hate Blizzard, you better believe they will jump all over it. A lot of people act like these people are revolutionaries or have god tier opinions, when in reality it's just a consolidation of popular opinion in online forums (so yay, as much as this hurts to say, a good deal of people on forums like these or reddit actually come up with these opinions!).

Another big reason is that they're hardly confrontational. They rarely step on each others toes because it's in their best interest for ALL OF THEM to be buddy-buddy with each other (and this is especially true for the people on top). This says more about the bottom feeders or those in the middle ranges than it says about the people at the top of the pecking order BTW.

You can go back and watch like 95% of them and the community parrots during SL sing the praises of Torghast during it's early stages. Why? Because it's new and popular opinion hasn't formed yet. 4-5 months later and it's suddenly shit, lol. What changed? Oh, people talking about how certain systems might be problematic in the future!

This isn't me defending Blizzard or attacking EVERY CONTENT creator either. Blizzard does fuck up a lot and some of the creators do bring up solid, and original points from time to time. The reason why you have a lot of them blown away by FF14 is because it's in their best interest to be as nice as possible to this new community they're trying to attach to, and the worst thing you can do is be overly critical of something new (this isn't bashing FF14 either, it's an awesome game in a lot regards but it does have it's faults).

Again, Blizzard gets a lot of things wrong and sometimes it takes playing other games to realize this. Their finger hasn't been on the pulse on this game for years IMO and they haven't really moved with an aging player base that made this game super popular back in 2004 (not that I expect it to be super popular going into two decades, but still). While players think they're smart about everything, we really aren't. If you want proof of this you just need to go back to Classic WoW launch. We got pretty much everything that the old game had, only to realize down the line that some of this shit for a giant portion of the player base fucking sucked. I remember people cheering for built in server lag to replicate 2004 latency in addition to launching the honor system pretty close to what it was back in Vanilla (and the mass transfers of people leaving because they didn't want to lose).

You think you do but you don't was eerily true. Not the literal statement (Classic was a good idea), but trying to make it too close to the original was the wrong call IMO and the experience could've been a lot better had they changed a few things.

[HansOlo]

I can even give you a direct example of how and why your system doesn't work, because the very thing you're criticizing (monetized opinions) happens to be exactly what any youtuber who 'exposes' other youtubers would be profiting off of. The drama they generate is what will make them money, and you will see them generate more and more needless drama and 'truthtelling' for the sake of clicks. You literally are asking to replace Asmongold with a shadier, community-splitting youtuber who makes their money off generating drama.

Truthfully and 100% honest - this is exactly what I want. I want the youtubers to fight and debate. That is entertaining for me - but it also puts up standards. It won't be enough to say "see - they betrayed us again!!". In that kind of enviourment - Bellular would have nothing to say or stay - and it would be enlightening. Maybe even new personalities pops up out of encouragement.

Let's as community please set some standards up. It genuinely pleases me, that i'm not the only that dislikes Bellulars youtube algorthim skills(it could be any other bandwagon rider - determined to ruin this game).

[Triceron]

If it's opnion-driven entertainment - why do you disagree with me?

Because you're trying to artificially diversify a popularity contest to more favourably promote your own opinion that you don't like the current popular options, while presenting this as a community-wide problem that needs to be fixed.

You're not merely giving your opinion, you're making an argument that something is broken and needs fixing. The only thing that's broken is your inability to regard that Youtube drama is not a Community-wide problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Truthfully and 100% honest - this is exactly what I want. I want the youtubers to fight and debate. That is entertaining for me - but it also puts up standards. It won't be enough to say "see - they betrayed us again!!". In that kind of enviourment - Bellular would have nothing to say or stay - and it would be enlightening. Maybe even new personalities pops up out of encouragement.

Let's as community please set some standards up. It genuinely pleases me, that i'm not the only that dislikes Bellulars youtube algorthim skills(it could be any other bandwagon rider - determined to ruin this game).

But you ALREADY have this.

Plenty of other youtubers do 'reaction' videos of other youtubers. They're already doing what you're asking for, all while you're criticizing them in the same breath for influencing people too much and being paid for their opinions.

You don't see the problem with this at all?