Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #61
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    11,527
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    That isn't a controversial opinion. That's the consensus of the Warcraft fandom.

    Inb4 replies "no u" but let's be honest, the vast majority of the people still perusing this subforum are the minority of Warcraft fans who have such bad taste and are so addicted that WoW can do them no wrong, so they will insist that all is well. If all was well then Blizzard wouldn't be trying to obfuscate the game's subscriber count.
    I won't say that the people that are here and post on the lore thread think everything is alright, is just that they love the universe of Warcraft and wish for it to "get better" and have hopes for the possible future, do they think that those things will happen on the near future.... NOPE! But hey, speculating on the future of the lore of something that you love is always fun!

  2. #62
    Or maybe an actual controversial opinion: I think there is a not insignificant part of the fanbase who's real problem is that WC lore moved on after Frozen Throne. They don't have a problem with everything, but the overwhelming instinct is to react negatively to new lore developments.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  3. #63
    WoW lore went to shit the moment Metzen left, that's just facts.

    Metzen was the only one on the team who actually cared about the lore

    But Blizzard is greedy, and putting important lore in books and not in the game is the biggest killer of a story.
    Here are some very important key points that were in books and never explained in the game....

    Sinestra.... in the game it's never explained why she's there...it's never explained why she's covered in claw marks...the last time the players saw her was in outland and then she vanished and was never mentioned again. She's in one of the books..night of the dragon I think, and it's explained she and deathwing created a super dragon that was so powerful it almost killed her, which explains the claw marks all over her. The book explains how she's involved with the twilight dragons and why she would be in bastion.

    Garrosh... probably the biggest one in my opinion... garrosh was arrested at the end of MOP to face trial.... 1 year later we see a cinematic of him in Draenor...in the past.
    There's a book with all this lore and they chose not to put it in the game. Explains how wrathion and a corrupt bronze dragon aided his escape and sent him to the past to bring the horde to the present.

    Sylvannas is another one who's story is detailed in books and never in the game. Which really butchered the shadowlands lore even further because nothing made sense unless you took the time to look up what happened to her and how she even made a pact with the jailer
    Last edited by OokOok; 2022-06-24 at 04:57 AM.

  4. #64
    Wow, I completely agree with you on everything. Great post, mate. Too bad I don't really see any hope of it getting better in the near future, if anything it'll just get worse until WoW dies.
    ...that's just my opinion, anyway.

    All of this cosmological stuff is too boring for me. I'd like to get Warcraft back, please. my thing is killing defias and orcs.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by guisadop View Post
    Wow, I completely agree with you on everything. Great post, mate. Too bad I don't really see any hope of it getting better in the near future, if anything it'll just get worse until WoW dies.
    Now here is a real controversial opinion:

    I'm mildly hopeful that with afrasiabi gone it can only get better, Dragonflight will pretty much be danusers trial if all the rumours have been true that so far he's only been in charge of putting out the fires (which yes, didn't go so well).

    So yeah, interested to see how DF as danusers "real" baby will go... will be entertaining either way.
    Last edited by Caprias; 2022-06-29 at 03:41 AM.

  6. #66
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Demacia
    Posts
    3,476
    Bruh the in-game plot is set out to literally rewrite reality and bend the truth of all things to make Sylvanas not accountable for her actions. They did it openly and nothing happened. They even added in Arthas for a bit just to spit on him and the legacy of better writers personally for no reason, it added nothing to their own shitty little story. Until these people are all shitcanned, it will continue as their failure is not even being bad at what they do or telling terrible stories that don't fit or go anywhere, it's the constant dismissal of existing things and writing.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    That isn't a controversial opinion. That's the consensus of the Warcraft fandom.

    Inb4 replies "no u" but let's be honest, the vast majority of the people still perusing this subforum are the minority of Warcraft fans who have such bad taste and are so addicted that WoW can do them no wrong, so they will insist that all is well. If all was well then Blizzard wouldn't be trying to obfuscate the game's subscriber count.
    Actually it's quite the opposite. The people lingering here are just the ones who will spew that lore is bad with no real support because they're desperately seeking approval/clout that isn't real.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    WoW lore went to shit the moment Metzen left, that's just facts.

    Metzen was the only one on the team who actually cared about the lore

    But Blizzard is greedy, and putting important lore in books and not in the game is the biggest killer of a story.
    Here are some very important key points that were in books and never explained in the game....

    Sinestra.... in the game it's never explained why she's there...it's never explained why she's covered in claw marks...the last time the players saw her was in outland and then she vanished and was never mentioned again. She's in one of the books..night of the dragon I think, and it's explained she and deathwing created a super dragon that was so powerful it almost killed her, which explains the claw marks all over her. The book explains how she's involved with the twilight dragons and why she would be in bastion.

    Garrosh... probably the biggest one in my opinion... garrosh was arrested at the end of MOP to face trial.... 1 year later we see a cinematic of him in Draenor...in the past.
    There's a book with all this lore and they chose not to put it in the game. Explains how wrathion and a corrupt bronze dragon aided his escape and sent him to the past to bring the horde to the present.

    Sylvannas is another one who's story is detailed in books and never in the game. Which really butchered the shadowlands lore even further because nothing made sense unless you took the time to look up what happened to her and how she even made a pact with the jailer
    Metzen did far more damage to the lore than any current writer due to him being a nerd who suddenly gained fame. He would spew things on Twitter and at Blizzcon that could easily have been fact checked in many cases or he could have said he didn't have an answer ready. Instead he chose to just say things that were suddenly taken as lore. FYI the whole 1 Legion for all timelines was his doing. One of the worst things to lore that makes ABSOLUTELY no sense as all timelines could easily have joined up against it.

  8. #68
    TBH im a bit dubious about the claim, since the lore is anything that blizzard want it to be, we don't have to like it but any stance anyplayer takes stating 'it should belike x' is just a personal opinion. Fact is the Warcarft universe lore is Blizzard make it, theres no official standard to it - a murloc could be the big bad of dragonflight if thats what they wanted

  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Celestial Planetarium
    Posts
    1,988
    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    Bruh the in-game plot is set out to literally rewrite reality and bend the truth of all things to make Sylvanas not accountable for her actions. They did it openly and nothing happened. They even added in Arthas for a bit just to spit on him and the legacy of better writers personally for no reason, it added nothing to their own shitty little story. Until these people are all shitcanned, it will continue as their failure is not even being bad at what they do or telling terrible stories that don't fit or go anywhere, it's the constant dismissal of existing things and writing.
    That’s nothing. They humiliated Algalon by making him a pet tamer, like he was some random, irreverent pest. They tortured and murdered his brothers in the maw. Made his moon and titan keepers appear completely worthless. Then they put his robe on sale to bait us in hope for better days. Not to mention, there are characters who are declared dead in quests but still walk around as if nothing happened. Now they have released an expansion which is an exact remake of Cataclysm. The new race looks like an obscene cat lizard instead of just putting a dragon class such as Wrathion. I could go and complain for days, but I consider this a waste of time. One thing that is just amazing is the stone watcher, but that’s all. Oh and the best one; there's been something with the sword for over four years, and we've never figured it out. Wait! What a sword! Azeroth is dying. Sargeras has stabbed her! No, it's just a splinter. All is good. Carry on, guys!
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2022-08-20 at 07:20 AM.

  10. #70
    Another circle jerk thread of how good old lore was and how bad the new one is? How many do we need?

    It is fantasy. Created lore pulled out of thin air. They can do with it what they want.

    I think it is always stupid and weird that we as players and our characters are supposed to know stuff that no one else knows. Chronicles was the biggest mistake they ever did. They wrote themselves into a corner by telling us "that is the definete lore!".

    Otherwise they could always tell us the NPC who told us did not know better. Because not everything NPCs say is necesarily true. Everything was up to be changed because nothing was true unless we have been there.

    Chronicles changed that. Suddenly we knew stuff we never should have known....

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    no, making it 'from a titan pov' IS the mistake
    U need a solid ground to build ur story, wow sabotaged its own
    And we don't even know which Titan it is... or if they even CLAIM to BE a titan. It could just be someone who's in favor of the Titans.
    At BlizzCon 2019, Steve Danuser stated that Chronicle is written from the point of view of the titans and their servants, as well as "a lot of other perspectives",
    (Source)

    So the supposed writer could be a Titan, or they could just be someone blessed by the Titans. A history book doesn't give all the facts, they only give a certain perspective, and sometimes doesn't have all the important information we have to paint an accurate picture. Like what happened when Vashj's death, In the Chronicle she didn't have anything to say nor was she interested in Illidan's goals, but from the player perspective (where we actually kill her) she's calling out Illidan for forgiveness.

    So, as much as people want to say "Chronicles is 100% true and everything else is just retcons" I don't buy into it. And I don't think even Blizzard (or Danuser) follows whats written in it.

  12. #72
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Celestial Planetarium
    Posts
    1,988
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    And we don't even know which Titan it is... or if they even CLAIM to BE a titan. It could just be someone who's in favor of the Titans.
    (Source)

    So the supposed writer could be a Titan, or they could just be someone blessed by the Titans. A history book doesn't give all the facts, they only give a certain perspective, and sometimes doesn't have all the important information we have to paint an accurate picture. Like what happened when Vashj's death, In the Chronicle she didn't have anything to say nor was she interested in Illidan's goals, but from the player perspective (where we actually kill her) she's calling out Illidan for forgiveness.

    So, as much as people want to say "Chronicles is 100% true and everything else is just retcons" I don't buy into it. And I don't think even Blizzard (or Danuser) follows whats written in it.
    Yeah so basically everything we had so far might be not even true. Whole Tauren mythology and all the books they released so far. Because, as said. It was written from another person’s perspective. Haha

  13. #73
    Chris Metzen should have had sole creative authority with the lore.

  14. #74
    If you look around at other RPG franchises, it's normal to have a writers' bible to ensure that new stories fit the established world.

    The entire point of Chronicles was to gather and set down a definitive version of the lore, and that's exactly how it was sold in all product descriptions and ads. Invalidating them with a single line destroyed their purpose and violated the terms under which they were published.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    Yeah so basically everything we had so far might be not even true. Whole Tauren mythology and all the books they released so far. Because, as said. It was written from another person’s perspective. Haha
    Lorewalker Cho's explanation of the Yaungol is better than the Chronicles saying "Oh, actually, the Yaungol are the original inhabitants, the Tauren we know now are just an offshoot of the Yaungol that became more peaceful and tuned to nature." That feels unbelievably forced and is probably one of the biggest offenders in the Chronicles.

    Cho explains that the Yaungol were an offshoot of the Tauren after the Sundering and had to use fire as means of survival.

    How does Fire worshipping Yak men transition to Bull people with a deep connection to the earth and trees and the spirits? It feels like completely backwards.

  16. #76
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    WORST country on earth (aka egypt)
    Posts
    8,277
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    And we don't even know which Titan it is... or if they even CLAIM to BE a titan. It could just be someone who's in favor of the Titans.
    (Source)

    So the supposed writer could be a Titan, or they could just be someone blessed by the Titans. A history book doesn't give all the facts, they only give a certain perspective, and sometimes doesn't have all the important information we have to paint an accurate picture. Like what happened when Vashj's death, In the Chronicle she didn't have anything to say nor was she interested in Illidan's goals, but from the player perspective (where we actually kill her) she's calling out Illidan for forgiveness.

    So, as much as people want to say "Chronicles is 100% true and everything else is just retcons" I don't buy into it. And I don't think even Blizzard (or Danuser) follows whats written in it.
    that's far worse than i even thought
    why?
    why did they do that? why don't they replay wc3 and check how solid amazing was lore back then? why they don't learn from THEMSELVES!
    Last edited by Cloudmaker; 2022-07-14 at 05:42 PM.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Kent088 View Post
    I guess I'm post-hoc rationalizing why the blood elves should have been in the Alliance, because the blood elves were written in such a way where with every expansion it just made increasingly less sense for them to be in the Horde. Even Blizzard admitted that with the whole "Lor'Themar tried negotiating a faction change" but "Oops lets make Jaina go crazy and commit political coup of Dalaran". Like why even waste time with that?
    In current Lore only Forsaken should be in the Horde. The Horde goes against the principles of the other races.

    And of the Alliance. Being a defensive alliance. Well I should no longer have Kaldorei or Warguens and therefore neither Draneis.

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans The Flavour Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Trueshot Lodge
    Posts
    2,710
    It's sort of like what Marvel's being doing to Star Wars and the MCU starting from and including Endgame.
    Isn't it ironic how education is important, yet people forget all about it when they visit the internet?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    that's far worse than i even thought
    why?
    why did they do that? why don't they replay wc3 and check how solid amazing was lore back then? why they don't learn from THEMSELVES!
    Because the current woke writers are offended by the old lore and determined to replace it, trashing it if replacement isn't an option. See the blatant lying about Arthas, where they first stated they had to approach him carefully, as his legacy was a huge part of the franchise, then what we got was "May you be forgotten".
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    that's far worse than i even thought
    why?
    why did they do that? why don't they replay wc3 and check how solid amazing was lore back then? why they don't learn from THEMSELVES!
    I don't really know.

    All I can surmise is that as time passes, different writers will want to inject their own ideas into it and some ideas from the past would make it harder for the new writers to work with it. One such case being what happened to the Elder Scrolls series (and for the record even I didn't know about this until recently) where the original Elder Scrolls games (Pre-Oblivion) had some rather crazy yet imaginative lore behind it... but later installments like Oblivion pushed a lot of those ideas into the background and you didn't know about it... whereas Skyrim those ideas are almost never brought up again. (This is what I've been told about it) However, despite the lack of consistency to past lore, people still enjoyed Skyrim for what it did offer and introduced a ton of people to the franchise.

    And in one other possible case with the Chronicles since Metzen was involved with them as well... The chance that he probably didn't like or was unsure of something he previously did in Warcraft 3 so he wanted to change out something out. Similar to how George Lucas changed up Star Wars a little in the prequels to try something different with it than what he did in the first original three movies.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •