Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
  1. #81
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    WORST country on earth (aka egypt)
    Posts
    8,277
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Because the current woke writers are offended by the old lore and determined to replace it, trashing it if replacement isn't an option. See the blatant lying about Arthas, where they first stated they had to approach him carefully, as his legacy was a huge part of the franchise, then what we got was "May you be forgotten".
    i think i finally reached the straw that broke my back, just now i uninstalled all blizz products except hearthstone, and i even question if i should keep playing it
    yeah Arthas part was a big fuck u to wow fans, done purely out of spit and hate, zero benefit for lore or anything at
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    I don't really know.

    All I can surmise is that as time passes, different writers will want to inject their own ideas into it and some ideas from the past would make it harder for the new writers to work with it.
    no it is company that doesn't care
    check dune for example, it was expanded with care by the writer's son, new writer had full respect and improve on already established world lore
    what we have here is clear sabotage attempt at wow old lore, we have ppl who hate old lore, want to shit on it far more than create their own new lore
    and for that, i can't believe this but seems i finally forced to just close that big chapter of my life that was warcraft, activisionblizzard can go fuck themselves
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  2. #82
    If the writers wouldn't work with old lore then they lacked the creativity for the genre to begin with.
    If the writers couldn't work with the old lore, then that's worse.

  3. #83
    "The Titans are severely reduced and disrespected"

    Tf? How? They're far more powerful now than in the old lore.

    "Dragons" just read Chronicle and play Cata. Deathwing and others went through whole ass design changes from the first couple of games, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If the writers wouldn't work with old lore then they lacked the creativity for the genre to begin with.
    If the writers couldn't work with the old lore, then that's worse.
    They already played out most of the old lore regardless, there's only so much you can do with the Legion and Old God plots.

  4. #84
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    3,126
    I just feel the writers are more interesting in telling their story than telling the story of the setting. When you tell a story in a world that is shared, I think you need to prioritize continuity. And this has nothing to do with the last two expansions (where there is a decent excuse in that there were both people who left the team and there is likely tension in the team as well); they never cared. It was clear as early as TBC when characters were just wasted to more easily fill the plot and the gameplay, it was painful in Cataclysm when a character absolutely central to the expansion received completely different characterization across zones (and continued to be schizophrenic going forward). And yes it culminated with what we experienced in BfA and Shadowlands.

    I love RPGs and have followed several shared worlds. I've seen this happen before (Forgotten Realms into 4E edition, World of Darkness) and I've seen other IPs make a serious effort to keep things on track (Elder Scrolls). With Blizzard I don't even see much effort to keep the lore consistent.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    i think i finally reached the straw that broke my back, just now i uninstalled all blizz products except hearthstone, and i even question if i should keep playing it
    yeah Arthas part was a big fuck u to wow fans, done purely out of spit and hate, zero benefit for lore or anything at

    no it is company that doesn't care
    check dune for example, it was expanded with care by the writer's son, new writer had full respect and improve on already established world lore
    what we have here is clear sabotage attempt at wow old lore, we have ppl who hate old lore, want to shit on it far more than create their own new lore
    and for that, i can't believe this but seems i finally forced to just close that big chapter of my life that was warcraft, activisionblizzard can go fuck themselves
    Except there's one big problem...

    Chris Metzen, one of the original creators of the WoW Lore was also responsible for the Chronicles (he co-wrote the chronicles). He was totally okay with what was written in it, which makes this all the more confusing if there is sabotage at play.

    It also doesn't help that the Narrative Lead before Danuser was the guy responsible for triggering the Blizzard scandals and lawsuits that pretty much damaged the company's reputation to oblivion and was the big reason for pushing Sylvanas down this route that lead to Shadowlands.

    And I know people will say "Oh, the new writers hate the new lore and want to inject their own lore" but there isn't any evidence to back up that claim at all. The only one being a writer for one of the novels who's never written any other WoW novel aside from just the one who pretty much lambasted the WoW players for being misogynists... All I'm saying is that you're being misinformed.

    I'm not suggesting you should re-install WoW (that's your own choice), but take every post and reply you see in this forum with a grain of salt. Not everything is as black and white hyperbole as people here make it look.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    Except there's one big problem...

    Chris Metzen, one of the original creators of the WoW Lore was also responsible for the Chronicles (he co-wrote the chronicles). He was totally okay with what was written in it, which makes this all the more confusing if there is sabotage at play.
    Metzen knows they've just made up warcraft lore via rule of cool from day one. Chronicles was just his attempt to put all the pieces together over the last like 20 years of the franchise.

    Warcraft didn't start as some author's magnum opus. It was a bunch of rock nerds making an RTS game that couldn't have the rights to warhammer's IP. Its had some real gems, and inspired some cool things. But its effectively like some guy's D&D campaign that's been dragged out longer and grander than anything he had in mind when he threw together some cool scenarios and battles.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicpreds View Post
    Tf? How? They're far more powerful now than in the old lore.
    If that were true, we wouldn't have been able to deal with them basically at all. I'm sick of our characters being super heroes on the level of superman, using the magic of teamwork and rental powers to topple beings we realistically should just have no hope against in a conventional combat scenario like a raid. If they're more powerful than in old lore, then we're INCREDIBLY more powerful than even named hero characters in WC3 were, and that just doesn't feel right to me. I want to be a rando footman in some mortal army, not a god.

    They already played out most of the old lore regardless, there's only so much you can do with the Legion and Old God plots.
    There isn't. Maybe if you're concerned with enemy types getting stale, or zone design getting stale or whatever, but plot-wise, they could have had another 2-3 xpacs on argus instead of just a single patch at the ass end of an expansion.

  8. #88
    Controversial opinion?

  9. #89
    That's because they are Activison/Blizzardx this company only cares about money not the lore or the customer. They will do whatever they think will gain them more subs.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Woggmer View Post
    but there isn't any evidence to back up that claim at all.
    I'm glad you seem to have made it out of your two year coma, I hope you're recovering well.
    All of SL is your evidence. It's basically a soft-reboot of the franchise as a whole. It has touched on every single aspect and either threw it away(dismantling the entire original chronicle), or claimed something in the Shadowlands is responsible for it(basically every conflict, even every stupid game mechanic like set bonuses and legendary effects).

    Not only is it evidence of the spiteful hatred of the new devs, but also either their complete and total incompetence or their staggering lack of actual care for fictional universes(or both), because they retconned THEMSELVES within one single patch of the expansion, making the "Stonewright" a former nightwarrior instead of an original Venthyr as was initially stated by Renathal(who was there during her creation).
    Just face it. You defend the indefensible. The current people working at Blizzard are uncaring at best, and a nasty mix of hateful and spiteful at worst(their spite lead the creation of a whole new asspull sub-race of elves, Ren'dorei).

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    I'm glad you seem to have made it out of your two year coma, I hope you're recovering well.
    All of SL is your evidence. It's basically a soft-reboot of the franchise as a whole. It has touched on every single aspect and either threw it away(dismantling the entire original chronicle), or claimed something in the Shadowlands is responsible for it(basically every conflict, even every stupid game mechanic like set bonuses and legendary effects).

    Not only is it evidence of the spiteful hatred of the new devs, but also either their complete and total incompetence or their staggering lack of actual care for fictional universes(or both), because they retconned THEMSELVES within one single patch of the expansion, making the "Stonewright" a former nightwarrior instead of an original Venthyr as was initially stated by Renathal(who was there during her creation).
    Renethal is called out for his mistake by the Curator. Regardless, how is this a soft reboot? Everything that came before still happened. While they did expound upon the origins of the Dreadlords and recontextualize a lot of the cosmic conflict, that didn't undo the vast majority of lore. Jaina still betrayed Daelin due to her loyalty to the Horde, not due to the nathrezim's involvement. The Tyr's hand massacre wasn't some deep plot by cosmic entities. As far as some of your claims, I'm curious about where you get that all tier sets and legendary powers came from the Shadowlands (obviously the legendaries within the Shadowlands came from the Runecarver, as did Frostmourne and the DK legendaries forged from that, but I need some supporting evidence that Val'anyr or Atiesh or the like had any link). You clearly dislike the expansion, which is fine, but I don't see how it did any more damage to the lore than TBC did when Metzen was still at the helm (and issued a public apology for how much he screwed up).

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Metzen knows they've just made up warcraft lore via rule of cool from day one. Chronicles was just his attempt to put all the pieces together over the last like 20 years of the franchise.

    Warcraft didn't start as some author's magnum opus. It was a bunch of rock nerds making an RTS game that couldn't have the rights to warhammer's IP. Its had some real gems, and inspired some cool things. But its effectively like some guy's D&D campaign that's been dragged out longer and grander than anything he had in mind when he threw together some cool scenarios and battles.
    That's exactly what it is. Metzen himself retconned quite a few things to make WC3 happen in the first place (especially concerning the Orcs) and was famously unconcerned with following canon to the letter, preferring being able to do whatever felt cool to him at the time in between two coke-fueled fever dreams.

    Occam's razor is in play and I'm far more inclined to attribute the bad recent lore to incompetence than any sort of malice. Not like Warcraft has ever been insulated from incompetent writing, WoW itself shat the bad lorewise every other expansion since TBC itself.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Renethal is called out for his mistake by the Curator. Regardless, how is this a soft reboot? Everything that came before still happened. While they did expound upon the origins of the Dreadlords and recontextualize a lot of the cosmic conflict, that didn't undo the vast majority of lore. Jaina still betrayed Daelin due to her loyalty to the Horde, not due to the nathrezim's involvement. The Tyr's hand massacre wasn't some deep plot by cosmic entities. As far as some of your claims, I'm curious about where you get that all tier sets and legendary powers came from the Shadowlands (obviously the legendaries within the Shadowlands came from the Runecarver, as did Frostmourne and the DK legendaries forged from that, but I need some supporting evidence that Val'anyr or Atiesh or the like had any link). You clearly dislike the expansion, which is fine, but I don't see how it did any more damage to the lore than TBC did when Metzen was still at the helm (and issued a public apology for how much he screwed up).
    Agreed. While I'm not a fan of the whole Jailer being responsible.. He has a lore-alibi since most of the stuff he caused was a really a domino effect that just got bigger and bigger.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Renethal is called out for his mistake [wowpedia.fandom/wiki/Curator%27s_Addendum]by the Curator[/URL].
    That was added in the same patch they made the screw up. I can't remember the timeline of these things being added, but it was most likely thrown in to cover their own asses(because their idiocy was being mocked the second it was uncovered).
    The level of change to the universe is beyond anything they have ever done before. Chronicle had some retcons, there were retcons before Chronicle, but there's a very clear respect for the original boundaries of the universe in all previous lore. SL does not respect the universe, it changes it. The supposed "realms of death" are actually the realms of "anima", a made up magic(one of, I believe, four new made up magics) that fits NOWHERE in the previous universe. They made the Shadowlands the default afterlife, even when all prior lore had people go to the power they worshipped upon death. There's ZERO reason to worship the light now, invalidated the entire religion. Relegated the Titans to being ignorant chumps(while at the same time making their supposed equals display feats of power about equivalent to a Keeper like Freya and Odyn). They made every single fucking god in the universe into an ugly handsome Squidward-looking robot(one of the most insulting things they've done). As for the legendaries/set bonuses, they flat out say it's his memory of something he made.

    The only way to clean all of this up is to say everyone in the Shadowlands lied to us. It's the only thing that can make any of this work within the previous universe. They lied, it was a dream, etc., there is no way to make this work within the previous universe as it is.

  15. #95
    Lore in WoW is a tool to create background for the gameplay. It was clear from day 1 of vanilla that they will twist any way they see fit if that creates better experience for the players overall (like giving pretty elves to horde to lessen the faction gap, even though it didn't make much sense).

    People who shit on WoW lore/story are literally cringy.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    People who shit on WoW lore/story are literally cringy.
    There's a difference between needlessly railing against something and providing legitimate, constructive criticism. At the very least, a good number of us just want to see Blizzard produce the best product they can, lorewise.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by unfunnymeme View Post
    That was added in the same patch they made the screw up. I can't remember the timeline of these things being added, but it was most likely thrown in to cover their own asses(because their idiocy was being mocked the second it was uncovered).
    The level of change to the universe is beyond anything they have ever done before. Chronicle had some retcons, there were retcons before Chronicle, but there's a very clear respect for the original boundaries of the universe in all previous lore. SL does not respect the universe, it changes it. The supposed "realms of death" are actually the realms of "anima", a made up magic(one of, I believe, four new made up magics) that fits NOWHERE in the previous universe. They made the Shadowlands the default afterlife, even when all prior lore had people go to the power they worshipped upon death. There's ZERO reason to worship the light now, invalidated the entire religion. Relegated the Titans to being ignorant chumps(while at the same time making their supposed equals display feats of power about equivalent to a Keeper like Freya and Odyn). They made every single fucking god in the universe into an ugly handsome Squidward-looking robot(one of the most insulting things they've done). As for the legendaries/set bonuses, they flat out say it's his memory of something he made.

    The only way to clean all of this up is to say everyone in the Shadowlands lied to us. It's the only thing that can make any of this work within the previous universe. They lied, it was a dream, etc., there is no way to make this work within the previous universe as it is.
    While I don't agree with all your portrayals of the above, I'm particularly interested in the "afterlives" and "the Light" religion points. Aside from Bridenbraid, which involved Naaru direct intervention, where was it said that the dead go to the realms of the forces they worship? In particular, where was the Church of the Holy Light established to have a focus on the afterlife? Everything I've read is focused on the realm of the living, healing the wounded and combatting evil (such as the Horde death knights of WC2).

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    That's exactly what it is. Metzen himself retconned quite a few things to make WC3 happen in the first place (especially concerning the Orcs) and was famously unconcerned with following canon to the letter, preferring being able to do whatever felt cool to him at the time in between two coke-fueled fever dreams.

    Occam's razor is in play and I'm far more inclined to attribute the bad recent lore to incompetence than any sort of malice. Not like Warcraft has ever been insulated from incompetent writing, WoW itself shat the bad lorewise every other expansion since TBC itself.
    The problem is that the Lore of W3 changed something of W2.
    And the lore of let's say Patch X.1 changes things from Patch X.0.

    WoW cites things that didn't happen or suddenly changed over and over again.
    For example Pray saying that Jaina "killed many". Or missing piece of history like everything from the Night Warrior.

    W3 in any case you said "this happened and it was like that" maybe that was something they just invented. But close.

  19. #99
    Only nazis used mustard gas? I thought hitler was hit with one in ww1 fighting for the Germans

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •