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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    I wouldn't say that. Discord is just the latest thing. Before that it was Ventrillo. Blizzard has a lot more money than Discord and could easily Come up with a version that would have similar functionality but laser focus players on WOW or Diablo. The other games in the Activision lineup have their own distinct player base.
    How do I know this? Because if you go on games like ESO and play them on console those game have vibrant and active communities that basically exist in a vacuum because you can't use Discord on console systems. I played ESO on console and joined a guild and couldn't believe the player interactions, both on voice and in chat. It made me feel like the days of old in Vanilla where players genuinely came together for the love the game to make groups, etc.
    So your evidence for why Blizzard could compete with Discord on PC is that people use ESO's in-game chat on a platform where Discord isn't available? Discord is coming to Xbox and Playstation, and I can guarantee that people will switch to it once it does, because it provides the current BiS solution for organising and communication both inside and outside the game. Being able to have a discussion with guildies, signing up for group activities etc, without needing to open the game, is such an insane benefit that it's basically unbeatable.

    Also, to your point that "Discord is just the latest thing", absolutely, something could dethrone Discord, for sure. But it's not going to be a game-specific in-game community tool, there are just too many benefits for a platform you can access anywhere at any time, without needing to log in to the game. ESPECIALLY because most guilds branch out from the game they first formed in, and try other games, even if it's just for a few weeks. My guildies jump on D3 every once in a while, they'll have League games, hell, they'll just sit in chat chatting while they play single player games by themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Out of curiosity, why?

    How is a spaceship any different than a floating castle that's airtight?

    How is a robot different than a golem?

    A laser versus a ray of magic?

    I never really understood why some people get so hung up on these things. This game started with green men from a red planet invading via a stargate. Not so little green men from Mars! Its one of Clarke's three laws, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    Speaking only my opinion here of course, but I much prefer the standard medieval fantasy setting. I lose quite a bit of interest when too much technology gets involved in RPGs, I mainly only tolerate steampunk stuff but not much past that.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    The problem is that no one communicates within the game anymore because the content is fairly easy. The only challenge is ranked PvP, M+, and Mythic Raids. Years ago people banded together within the game partially because the content was challenging, partly because communicating and forming social groups outside of the game was not really a thing. .
    OK im gonna stop you right there - what time in wows history was ANY content challenging enough to require communication in game? Are you talking about WORLD content? Because even world content is more challenging now, HOWEVER the way the game plays out is very different. Chances are, if you stand around for 30 seconds someone else will be wanting to kill the same rare (for example) that you need and are finding hard. So instead of asking in /1 but finding out you are one of only a couple of players in the zone because everyone was spread out, so giving up and going back to a main city and asking in /2 for 2 hours while people offer to help but only if you pay them 50g. Now, you just stand around for 30seconds, and someone else will run by - because all content has been compressed into tiny "patch" zones, bunching the dwindling playerbase together.

    Every single piece of content in wow has become substantially more challenging than anything in the early days. Classic has been proving that for quite some time now. I pushed multiple characters to max level in classic and tbcc without any help from anyone, not even once.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiivar86 View Post
    Out of curiosity, why?

    How is a spaceship any different than a floating castle that's airtight?

    How is a robot different than a golem?

    A laser versus a ray of magic?

    I never really understood why some people get so hung up on these things. This game started with green men from a red planet invading via a stargate. Not so little green men from Mars! Its one of Clarke's three laws, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    So you would be fine with LOTR having lazer guns? i mean how is it any different from a bow and arrow? Swords? pfffft, forget that shit, its chainsaws and lightsabers. Giant eagles? why bother? F22 Lightnings baby!

    There are some games where a mix of tech is expected - doom is a great example of this. WoW is NOT one of those games.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-07-23 at 05:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Wow should have never gone into the "space death gods" topics.
    Some insinuation at cthulu-like old gods was okayish but it should have been left at that.

    Cosmic travel and fantasy worlds do not mix well.
    Warcraft was always about the castles and kingdoms, blizzard should not have abandoned that.

    They already explored the space death gods topics in starcraft 2 (for better or worse).
    Really no reason to do the same sh*t in the warcraft universe as well.
    Bruh, I hate to break it to you but the very first warcraft game is about cosmic travel: These aliens travel across space through a giant portal to invade a world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    Just a note: This thread is mainly just brainstorming ideas. Nothing I mention in any comment is something I feel SHOULD absolutely be implemented. Just some things that help create a more vibrant world that brings players back to the original fantasy that made WoW what it was in the first place.

    If only WoW had went in another direction since Vanilla. Imagine if you will WoW expanded more inwards than outwards?

    Let that sink in for a minute.

    What if WoW utilized their phasing technology and built expansions that fleshed out the zones more, added new dungeons to existing zones, new enemies, NPC's etc, while still respecting the old ones? Help and NPC who is fighting off Kobolds from raiding his farm, he thanks you and that's that. Then after the expansion you get a letter from that NPC requesting your aid yet again. Those nasty Kobolds are at it again, this time they have tunneled under the farmers crops. You take care of business and are on your way. But wait there's more! What if during the quest you discover a tunnel deep within the makeshift tunnels the pesky Kobolds made. This tunnel leads deeper still to a forgotten grotto where magical barriers thought long forgotten still stand vigil over this long lost area of travel. You bring this to the attention of your local mage guild/wiseman, etc and it gets looked into.

    Later down the line some expansions later, You receive word that those barriers are now able to be broken and a new party is forming to explore what lies beyond! Come join us Hero!

    This type of content would not forget about the people you've helped before and make the world feel more rich and vibrant and alive. This is just one example. Imagine seeing actual progress in zones you helped, etc. If you join someone else on a different layer of advancement then you are simply given a warning box that explains this is a possible spoiler or some such, etc.

    Right now WoW since Vanilla has made each new expansion a self contained game. This is part of what has slowed down development I believe. If only WoW had went into a different direction of building each expansion inwards instead of outwards then it doesn't mean that there could be no new zones, just that they would come slower and when it made sense to do so, while not abandoning the old ones.
    Ideally, you would have had expansions do both inward and outward , or at least one outward, one inward. Or 2 outward, 1 inward

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    OK im gonna stop you right there - what time in wows history was ANY content challenging enough to require communication in game? Are you talking about WORLD content? Because even world content is more challenging now, HOWEVER the way the game plays out is very different. Chances are, if you stand around for 30 seconds someone else will be wanting to kill the same rare (for example) that you need and are finding hard. So instead of asking in /1 but finding out you are one of only a couple of players in the zone because everyone was spread out, so giving up and going back to a main city and asking in /2 for 2 hours while people offer to help but only if you pay them 50g. Now, you just stand around for 30seconds, and someone else will run by - because all content has been compressed into tiny "patch" zones, bunching the dwindling playerbase together.

    Every single piece of content in wow has become substantially more challenging than anything in the early days. Classic has been proving that for quite some time now. I pushed multiple characters to max level in classic and tbcc without any help from anyone, not even once.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So you would be fine with LOTR having lazer guns? i mean how is it any different from a bow and arrow? Swords? pfffft, forget that shit, its chainsaws and lightsabers. Giant eagles? why bother? F22 Lightnings baby!

    There are some games where a mix of tech is expected - doom is a great example of this. WoW is NOT one of those games.
    Guns, black powder, Dynamite, Cannons, Flying machines, and Oil refineries were a large part of the Warcraft RTS. So was travel between planets (via portals) --- Dwarves had steam tanks and mortars.

    The tech in wow is not at all far-fetched or unbelievable. Especially considering we've seen all of it since the first mmo's expac. Gnomish Death Ray is an item in the original game that zaps people with a laser --- it's an engineering trinket. We literally build robot chickens that attack people, and have land mines.

    Warcraft was never High Fantasy like LotR. This is why dragonflight looks so crappy. WoW has always been its own weird mix of fantasy and tech. The very first game is about aliens invading a world through a stargate (that just happens to be powered by magic).

    You know those portals that demons come through in certain Doom games? The inital starting point of the Warcraft IP is literally built off the same idea.
    Last edited by wushootaki; 2022-07-23 at 05:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    Just a note: This thread is mainly just brainstorming ideas. Nothing I mention in any comment is something I feel SHOULD absolutely be implemented. Just some things that help create a more vibrant world that brings players back to the original fantasy that made WoW what it was in the first place.

    If only WoW had went in another direction since Vanilla. Imagine if you will WoW expanded more inwards than outwards?

    Let that sink in for a minute.

    What if WoW utilized their phasing technology and built expansions that fleshed out the zones more, added new dungeons to existing zones, new enemies, NPC's etc, while still respecting the old ones? Help and NPC who is fighting off Kobolds from raiding his farm, he thanks you and that's that. Then after the expansion you get a letter from that NPC requesting your aid yet again. Those nasty Kobolds are at it again, this time they have tunneled under the farmers crops. You take care of business and are on your way. But wait there's more! What if during the quest you discover a tunnel deep within the makeshift tunnels the pesky Kobolds made. This tunnel leads deeper still to a forgotten grotto where magical barriers thought long forgotten still stand vigil over this long lost area of travel. You bring this to the attention of your local mage guild/wiseman, etc and it gets looked into.

    Later down the line some expansions later, You receive word that those barriers are now able to be broken and a new party is forming to explore what lies beyond! Come join us Hero!

    This type of content would not forget about the people you've helped before and make the world feel more rich and vibrant and alive. This is just one example. Imagine seeing actual progress in zones you helped, etc. If you join someone else on a different layer of advancement then you are simply given a warning box that explains this is a possible spoiler or some such, etc.

    Right now WoW since Vanilla has made each new expansion a self contained game. This is part of what has slowed down development I believe. If only WoW had went into a different direction of building each expansion inwards instead of outwards then it doesn't mean that there could be no new zones, just that they would come slower and when it made sense to do so, while not abandoning the old ones.
    You are right, but the problem with WOW is that it started from an RTS game which unfolded its story and world in chapters, like a book. So you found and discovered new zones and places on Azeroth as you played through the game and new expansions. The result is that WOW simply built on the chapters of the story that had already been told and then created the zones and dungeons to go along with that in 3d. But it maintained the idea that even though you had a world, there were still things in that world that had yet to be discovered and stories to be told. And this matches the format of most MMOs from that time which featured new chapters of the story as new zones and dungeons over time. But in no way did the original developers expect the game to last this long and never planned for it with any sort of future proof tech. Also, one of the other reasons for keeping new expansions in new zones is due to being able to charge for access to that content. It is something that these companies use to generate profit over the base subscription cost and is key to the business model for these types of MMOs.

    There are many technologies that could be used to make the world more dynamic overall and not just in the latest expansion zones, but that is more than just phasing. And all of that comes with trade offs based on what are the kinds of game play that you want to prioritize in game. Things like open world pvp/pve combat, questing, dungeons, crafting, leveling and story progression all have to be factored into those choices. And those choices have to include what is most popular among the player base, which makes it impossible to do some of the stories found in the RTS within an MMO. You cannot do things like Destruction of the Well of Eternity/Sunwell in this setting or even the destruction of Lordaeron. It is an unfortunate consequence of how players become attached to settings in the game, which is why so many players were highly upset about the burning of Teldrassil. Phasing wont fix that problem and actually works against it.

    Theoretically, one way around those problems addressed by phasing would be if WOW had been released as a brand new game 5 years ago after 15 years of Warcraft RTS expansions. This would have made a much bigger world available built on much more up to date technology and server perfomrance. That would be an up to 3 times bigger world than what was available in Vanilla and allow for more cities and faction hubs and many more zones and areas to have dynamic game play events and elements. But that would not work as it stands with the current game. And even if they did do a WOW 2 for that same kind of impact they would have to do a time skip in order to reset the world so it is not simply the same old quests and dungeons over again.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-07-23 at 04:35 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Improve WHAT? What "problem" are they trying to fix?
    For me, it’s the sense of community. People used to raid to have fun, sure you had that same jerkoff that went on about how amazing he is, but now it seems people are more interested in doing good logs. The sense of comradery is gone now. Now people play with the mindset of “what benefits them”. Less guilds do alt runs, or fun nights cause it’s too easy to boost as an example. Look at classic, GDKP has ruined it. I for one, and a lot of people in discords I am on won’t touch it because it’s sooo excessive compared to back in the day.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    For me, it’s the sense of community. People used to raid to have fun, sure you had that same jerkoff that went on about how amazing he is, but now it seems people are more interested in doing good logs. The sense of comradery is gone now. Now people play with the mindset of “what benefits them”. Less guilds do alt runs, or fun nights cause it’s too easy to boost as an example. Look at classic, GDKP has ruined it. I for one, and a lot of people in discords I am on won’t touch it because it’s sooo excessive compared to back in the day.
    And still you cannot say what the problem is or what is being "fixed". It's always the same generic "I want better community" but not a single person can clearly say what that actually is.

    What you describe sounds like a "you" problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  10. #110
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Yeah this is a cool idea. I wish they would do it.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Ideally, you would have had expansions do both inward and outward , or at least one outward, one inward. Or 2 outward, 1 inward
    Yeah something like that. A little of both would be good. Some outward expacs to keep the world growing, and some inward expansion features to make the existing world richer.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    Yeah something like that. A little of both would be good. Some outward expacs to keep the world growing, and some inward expansion features to make the existing world richer.
    I would be ok with them stopping classic, and producing what are effectively "mini" expansion - seasons if you will - in the style of marvels "what if?" where they explore alternate time lines / realities. 1-2 raids, 3-5 dungeons tops, 1 new bg and 1 new arena, and a short "leveling" experience, but no actual levels, just something you need to do to understand the story and lore of this alternate reality. I know people are hungry for story and lore and single player content, but i see things differently where they focus on group content.

    Im not saying thats my "perfect" situation, im saying thats something i think is plausible and realistic - i would love an mmo with SP content and story as strong as the best CRPG out there, witcher 3 graphics and side quests/mini games, wow quality raids and dungeons, moba quality pvp, and simcity quality housing / city building. But thats not realistic and its not wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I would be ok with them stopping classic, and producing what are effectively "mini" expansion - seasons if you will - in the style of marvels "what if?" where they explore alternate time lines / realities. 1-2 raids, 3-5 dungeons tops, 1 new bg and 1 new arena, and a short "leveling" experience, but no actual levels, just something you need to do to understand the story and lore of this alternate reality. I know people are hungry for story and lore and single player content, but i see things differently where they focus on group content.

    Im not saying thats my "perfect" situation, im saying thats something i think is plausible and realistic - i would love an mmo with SP content and story as strong as the best CRPG out there, witcher 3 graphics and side quests/mini games, wow quality raids and dungeons, moba quality pvp, and simcity quality housing / city building. But thats not realistic and its not wow.
    Yeah something along those lines could work for sure. I think sometimes that a lot of development is wasted trying to re-invent the wheel. Especially when they have a nice round model that rolls just fine.

  14. #114
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    this would never work because one reason players keep coming back is nostalgia, which is why things needs to be left untouched, preserving everything everytime would lead to too much complexity, they did the best they could do with new continents and few select zone changes

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    Just a note: This thread is mainly just brainstorming ideas. Nothing I mention in any comment is something I feel SHOULD absolutely be implemented. Just some things that help create a more vibrant world that brings players back to the original fantasy that made WoW what it was in the first place.

    If only WoW had went in another direction since Vanilla. Imagine if you will WoW expanded more inwards than outwards?

    Let that sink in for a minute.

    What if WoW utilized their phasing technology and built expansions that fleshed out the zones more, added new dungeons to existing zones, new enemies, NPC's etc, while still respecting the old ones? Help and NPC who is fighting off Kobolds from raiding his farm, he thanks you and that's that. Then after the expansion you get a letter from that NPC requesting your aid yet again. Those nasty Kobolds are at it again, this time they have tunneled under the farmers crops. You take care of business and are on your way. But wait there's more! What if during the quest you discover a tunnel deep within the makeshift tunnels the pesky Kobolds made. This tunnel leads deeper still to a forgotten grotto where magical barriers thought long forgotten still stand vigil over this long lost area of travel. You bring this to the attention of your local mage guild/wiseman, etc and it gets looked into.

    Later down the line some expansions later, You receive word that those barriers are now able to be broken and a new party is forming to explore what lies beyond! Come join us Hero!

    This type of content would not forget about the people you've helped before and make the world feel more rich and vibrant and alive. This is just one example. Imagine seeing actual progress in zones you helped, etc. If you join someone else on a different layer of advancement then you are simply given a warning box that explains this is a possible spoiler or some such, etc.

    Right now WoW since Vanilla has made each new expansion a self contained game. This is part of what has slowed down development I believe. If only WoW had went into a different direction of building each expansion inwards instead of outwards then it doesn't mean that there could be no new zones, just that they would come slower and when it made sense to do so, while not abandoning the old ones.
    They could implement more phasing, they've already done that plenty with zones like Tirisfal and Silithus. And this pretty much what they have done so far.

    >Hey Guys the dark portals opening and demons are flooding through, lets fight them back and create a foothold on Outland.
    >Hey guys the Lich King is attacking our cities, lets fight them back and make a foothold on Northrend
    >Hey guys Deathwing woke up and tearing up the planet, lets explore some places we havent been to yet on EK and kalimdor and fight him and his cult and brood.
    >Hey guys we found an island with pandas, lets go make a foothold there.
    >Hey guys time traveling orcs...
    >Hey guys demons are falling from the sky over the lost isles...
    >hey guys, trolls and chubby humans...
    >hey guys, the death plane has opened...

    But i understand that having content that isn't played in seems like a waste, but you cant dump resources in keeping old zones alive endlessly.

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