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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    No it wasn't. Going from T5 to T6 for example you kept using your T5 gear for months, it wasn't immediately replaced the first week.
    Depends how fast you moved. Gear is replaced quicker because of mythic plus but I can't imagine the shit fit current wow players would have if we returned to tiered content like classic,tbc,wrath and cata.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by b1gh3x View Post
    Gearing has become irrelevant in this game, at least in context to earlier expansions.
    Gear in the old days of classic, used to carry a gravitas and a sense of prestige.

    Now gear is just something to be discarded with each new season.
    It is cheap, expendable, and is relatively easy to do for mythic raiders/plus'ers, and high end pvp'ers.

    Because of this, I would assume that the majority of players in high end content are pursuing these goals because of the intrinsic fun involved in the activities, along with bonus titles and mounts.

    My question is, does giving max ilvl gear to world/daily questers take away from the experience of high end players, or do they even care?
    Gear is meaningful when it’s hard to get, and only a select few have it. At the end of the day though, the experience you have along the journey to acquiring your gear is what matters, and is what should be the focus. OK, great, so you got a piece of gear, but was it fun getting there?
    Last edited by Vindris; 2022-07-10 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Typo

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Vindris View Post
    Gear is meaningful when it’s hard to get, and only a select few have it. At the end of the day though, the experience you have along the journey to acquiring your gear is what matters, and is what should be the focus. OK, great, so you got a piece of gear, but was it fun getting there?
    Gear is meaningful when it takes time to get and is of high quality, not necessarily when it's hard to get. The two often go hand in hand but the valor gear back in wrath/cata for example felt very meaningful to get because it was very good and it took time, but the process of getting it was not hard.

  4. #304
    Unfortunately wont happen as the most vocal minority, i.e. CE raiders think because they killed some boss in a month is the greatest achievement in this game, they will gatekeep it as hard as possible. Because everyone knows that if you take away gear from raiding and make it about the challenge, nobody would bother.

    So those are the ppl who just want to keep the power of gatekeeping others and not letting them have the same super mega hard big brain earned pixels.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Everything you just described boils down to being able to follow directions. Has zero to do with skill as it's defined. You're kinda making my point for me. The game is simple, the other players add the difficulty.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're conflating professional sports with a video game. Stop it. The only similarity is taking the time to practice. Running a mythic fight hundreds of times has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with repetition and learning patterns. I'll concede that some people are better at that than others, but that doesn't mean the game isn't simple. Now making a game that people will waste HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of hours of their lives on, now THAT takes skill.
    You LITERALLY just named WoW in your last sentence. Congratulations on contradicting youself.

  6. #306
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    Direct gatekeeping is the reason I quit WoW. So yeah, I'd say it's time to let players decide how much effort they want to put in a day, week or month.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  7. #307
    I don't really care if casuals can get good gear with questing, as long as the effort is there. Right now it's way too low, but from what we've heard from the expansion, you can craft good quality gear again, which sounds nice at least. Remains to be seen if you need to kill bosses in the raid to get crafting mats to do said gear though like in previous expansions.

    But in general I wouldn't mind a daily quest system that casuals could get something like +15 level gear from m+(-3 of heroic raids) that drops. That way people could get decent gear without having to engage into systems they don't like.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    You LITERALLY just named WoW in your last sentence. Congratulations on contradicting youself.
    He said MAKING A GAME you dumb fuck

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    You're conflating professional sports with a video game. Stop it. The only similarity is taking the time to practice. Running a mythic fight hundreds of times has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with repetition and learning patterns. I'll concede that some people are better at that than others, but that doesn't mean the game isn't simple. Now making a game that people will waste HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of hours of their lives on, now THAT takes skill.
    This argument is dumb. Skill essentially means the knowledge and expertise you possess to do anything. It doesn't really matter if it's about running m+ or developing a game or running a marathon. The amount of time it takes to learn to do various things varies and it also takes a varied time (and ability) to reach comparatively the highest levels of a skill, but essentially every "skill" in the world is learned through repetition. Even things like how to think or speak.
    Last edited by Thes; 2022-07-10 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Unfortunately wont happen as the most vocal minority, i.e. CE raiders think because they killed some boss in a month is the greatest achievement in this game, they will gatekeep it as hard as possible. Because everyone knows that if you take away gear from raiding and make it about the challenge, nobody would bother.

    So those are the ppl who just want to keep the power of gatekeeping others and not letting them have the same super mega hard big brain earned pixels.
    Explain to me HOW a handful of players (compared to total playerbase) are "gatekeeping"? Give me one example that doesn't have an extremely simple solution. Im so sick of hearing this bullshit: "I would totally have mythic gear but the hardcore players are BLOCKING me".

    How? How is anyone stopping you from obtaining the same gear?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Gear is meaningful when it takes time to get and is of high quality, not necessarily when it's hard to get. The two often go hand in hand but the valor gear back in wrath/cata for example felt very meaningful to get because it was very good and it took time, but the process of getting it was not hard.
    I think it goes without saying that the quality of gear should go along with how difficult the gear is to get.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Vindris View Post
    I think it goes without saying that the quality of gear should go along with how difficult the gear is to get.
    You would think so, but no. A very vocal minority literally want BIS mythic gear from single world quests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Explain to me HOW a handful of players (compared to total playerbase) are "gatekeeping"? Give me one example that doesn't have an extremely simple solution. Im so sick of hearing this bullshit: "I would totally have mythic gear but the hardcore players are BLOCKING me".

    How? How is anyone stopping you from obtaining the same gear?
    Yeah... Players who want a difficult challenge with a comparable reward aren't gatekeeping, because that's not the intent. That's like saying a skateboard manufacturer is gatekeeping because they don't accommodate for people without functioning legs.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by b1gh3x View Post
    My question is, does giving max ilvl gear to world/daily questers take away from the experience of high end players, or do they even care?
    I don't know a single daily which would give me a Mythic Level Trinket above 291 ilvl, in fact, most cap around 213. Even timewalking gear is only 210 and that is a catchup mechanic for alts... always has been. Same with the 226 gear in Zereth Mortis at the vendor. But from their perspective, here is why it will never end:

    No Timegating: Player bum rushes to get the gear and then bum rushes to beat the mythics. The unsub for 18 months.

    With Timegating: Everyone has to move at the same, allotted pace regardless of how fast/often they clear Mythic 20s.

    Do I agree with it? No. Do I wish I could just buy some 291 gear and call it a day? Yes. Am I a casual who stays subbed all year long? Yes I am.
    “Be the change you want to see in the world.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    He said MAKING A GAME you dumb fuck
    Literally same thing. Also try not being so angry.

    Eat a snickers.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I don't know a single daily which would give me a Mythic Level Trinket above 291 ilvl, in fact, most cap around 213. Even timewalking gear is only 210 and that is a catchup mechanic for alts... always has been. Same with the 226 gear in Zereth Mortis at the vendor. But from their perspective, here is why it will never end:

    No Timegating: Player bum rushes to get the gear and then bum rushes to beat the mythics. The unsub for 18 months.

    With Timegating: Everyone has to move at the same, allotted pace regardless of how fast/often they clear Mythic 20s.

    Do I agree with it? No. Do I wish I could just buy some 291 gear and call it a day? Yes. Am I a casual who stays subbed all year long? Yes I am.
    Dailies give 246 with some events giving 252. Add to that leggos and weekly challenges it's pretty easy to get around 270 ilv not entering a raid.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Dailies give 246 with some events giving 252. Add to that leggos and weekly challenges it's pretty easy to get around 270 ilv not entering a raid.
    Your math is quite off, you don't even get to 260 if you don't do raids/dungeons. Even with two 291 legendaries.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Dailies give 246 with some events giving 252. Add to that leggos and weekly challenges it's pretty easy to get around 270 ilv not entering a raid.
    If you consider a weekly 15 to be on the same level of a WQ, sure. But the vast majority of casual players can barely complete a M0, much less a 15.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Dailies give 246 with some events giving 252. Add to that leggos and weekly challenges it's pretty easy to get around 270 ilv not entering a raid.
    Your argument being what, "lol just grind M+"?

    Because quests etc. will never get you anywhere close to 270.

    And if you just include weekly M+15 cache loot in this, that's extremely misleading considering it was designed to be (at least somewhat of) an alternative to raids.

    That's like saying people complaining about cars could just use Uber. It's not really making a point, you're just shifting shit around.

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