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  1. #21
    If you think SL is the most unbalanced pvp then you either never played the earlier game, or you were very young and didnt know better back when it current.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Nah, other way around. Remove BGs and add more arenas. Or don't, I guess it doesn't matter how many arenas we have. As long as BGs are removed I'd be happy, worst content in the entire game and it isn't even close. It's literally "PvP" where individual player skill is completely irrelevant, talk about a giant waste of time. A shame they're required to upgrade gear.
    BG's are not required so if you don't like them you don't have to do them. Honor is awarded from arenas and skirmishes. The ratios of conquest to honor is a bit jenky when you hit upgrade breakpoints, but you do not need to do BG's.

    I understand that different people like different things, and if you don't like BG's then cool, but the idea that player skill does not matter is clearly false.

    Regardless, as they are removing the gear upgrades so you won't have to continue to pretend either that BG's are required or that player skill has no impact on outcomes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    People claiming that this is the best pvp are delusional.

    Because you happen to have found a good spot, it doesn´t mean that it is good. It is easily at its worse state ever.
    While I don't agree with the idea that it's the best, or even particularly good, saying it's easily at its "worse state ever" seems a stretch. There have been many times since 2004 that WoW PvP has been pretty bad. This certainly isn't the worst state I've experienced and I chalk your statement up to the common tendency to say that whatever is current is the worst.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    BG's are not required so if you don't like them you don't have to do them. Honor is awarded from arenas and skirmishes. The ratios of conquest to honor is a bit jenky when you hit upgrade breakpoints, but you do not need to do BG's.

    I understand that different people like different things, and if you don't like BG's then cool, but the idea that player skill does not matter is clearly false.

    Regardless, as they are removing the gear upgrades so you won't have to continue to pretend either that BG's are required or that player skill has no impact on outcomes.
    Sure, you can grind honor in arenas, but it's literally 2-3x longer than getting it in BGs. It's absurd to make a claim that it isn't required to do BGs on retail right now, unless you want progress to be insanely slow you have no real choice.

    If I hit 60 on a character and hit 1800 a few days later I'd need 36k honor to get caught up. At 150 honor per arena win that would take 240 wins, at 70% winrate that's about 320 games played (since losses give honor). At 5 minutes per game (queue + 1min start room + the arena itself) that's literally 26.5 hours of arenas. Meanwhile 36k honor can be done in like 10 hours of BGs. This isn't counting first game of the day bonus, obviously, but since that works with both BGs and arena it's pretty negligible. And it gets worse at higher ratings, but I figure 1800 is probably where most people will stop a freshly geared alt to start farming honor.

    I suppose if you can't get past 1400 then yeah, BGs are entirely optional though since you don't need much honor at all for those upgrades and it'll probably take you a lot of games to get to 1400 if that's your peak.

    And considering I literally AFK every BG I queue into and I still have like a 50% winrate I think it's very very obvious that player skill in BGs does not matter at all. If it did then I should have a pretty low winrate since I don't even participate. And that's for both epic BGs and normal BGs, so you can't even argue that it matters less in epic BGs, because it literally doesn't matter in either type. I'd love to hear how you think skill is important though in a game mode that you can win without even being at your computer.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Sure, you can grind honor in arenas, but it's literally 2-3x longer than getting it in BGs. It's absurd to make a claim that it isn't required to do BGs on retail right now, unless you want progress to be insanely slow you have no real choice.
    I guess you haven't played in this season, because solo shuffle fixed this problem entirely. It's the best honor/hour farming method and your individual skill matters a lot (unlike bgs, because I agree that most of the time you as an individual barely have any influence on the outcome there, which sucked for more competitive oriented players).

    Generally, people who complain about arenas and claim bgs as a "true PvP experience" are mostly those who can't handle personal responsibility, because bgs give you an illusion of being good at PvP. When you lose you can blame it on your team, when you win you can claim it's because of how awesome you are (which is rarely a reason, because most of the time teams are so unbalanced it doesn't matter anyway).

    Arena with much smaller teams puts a lot of weight on individuals, your mistakes and good plays decide the outcome, there is also a proper matchmaking too, so it's not 90% games decided in the lobby. But it's a bitter pill to take for most gamers who have bloated egos, because it's much harder to blame it on others when it's only 2v2 or 3v3, so the defense mechanism is to blame the game mode as bad or unbalanced (taking the blame, realising mistakes and learning from them isn't as common as projecting reason of failure on other factors).

    So yeah, crying your eyes out about "unbalanced SL PvP" or "removing arenas" is cute, but any competitive player can see right through it. Just because you long for PvP that gives you the illusion of being "a hero" doesnt mean others share this sentiment and would rather play the game that requires some skill.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Hint: check stats before replying with nonsense?

    SL s3 is soooo dominated by RMP.... oh wait, let's see the ladders!

    https://www.pvpleaderboard.com/leaderboards/3v3/us

    I can see a good mix of all classes and spec, not exactly what I would call "dominated by one comp moreso than any other season before it".
    wake up man, 20/25 tournament 3x3 fights were RMP's vs something or other RMP.... its like clown fiesta, RMP or leave for beer.

    Anti-fun to see RMP fighting another RMP after they beat previous team of RMP.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2022-07-28 at 12:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    Just sad. I already deleted my Dractyr. Congratulations if you have fun controlling a gecko more paralyzed than a pole and spitting rainbow balls.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Cæli's Avatar
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    the problem is just that rogue mage priest is extremely OP, they need to balance it and select the specific synergy of this comp

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    wake up man, 20/25 tournament 3x3 fights were RMP's vs something or other RMP.... its like clown fiesta, RMP or leave for beer.

    Anti-fun to see RMP fighting another RMP after they beat previous team of RMP.
    Wake up man, tournament meta is irrelevant to what people play in the real game and what classes and comps are viable to reach glad (not to mention what's viable to reach 2100 which is the end of gear progression).

    You said SL S3 is dominated by RMP, I proved you wrong with a ladder link, and now you try some mental gymnasticks by shifting the point to tournaments (without even providing any link to prove your point btw). Yeah even if all teams in torunaments played RMP, it doesn't matter in regards to balance of the whole season, if multiple specs are being played on all levels of play.

  8. #28
    I think the OG battlegrounds of WoW are truly a masterpiece. The problem is that they terrain and objectives just get a bit stale. Instead of new BGs, I wish they completely revamped all BGs. Make WSG an Orb/Domination style, make AB capture the flag, turn AV into pure reinforcements fight, etc.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    wake up man, 20/25 tournament 3x3 fights were RMP's vs something or other RMP.... its like clown fiesta, RMP or leave for beer.

    Anti-fun to see RMP fighting another RMP after they beat previous team of RMP.
    So, I don't watch tournaments but I made an exception just to make double sure you are full of crap.

    https://youtu.be/CHd0V-rlERE

    Where is the 20/25 RMP teams?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Sure, you can grind honor in arenas, but it's literally 2-3x longer than getting it in BGs. It's absurd to make a claim that it isn't required to do BGs on retail right now, unless you want progress to be insanely slow you have no real choice.

    If I hit 60 on a character and hit 1800 a few days later I'd need 36k honor to get caught up. At 150 honor per arena win that would take 240 wins, at 70% winrate that's about 320 games played (since losses give honor). At 5 minutes per game (queue + 1min start room + the arena itself) that's literally 26.5 hours of arenas. Meanwhile 36k honor can be done in like 10 hours of BGs. This isn't counting first game of the day bonus, obviously, but since that works with both BGs and arena it's pretty negligible. And it gets worse at higher ratings, but I figure 1800 is probably where most people will stop a freshly geared alt to start farming honor.

    I suppose if you can't get past 1400 then yeah, BGs are entirely optional though since you don't need much honor at all for those upgrades and it'll probably take you a lot of games to get to 1400 if that's your peak.

    And considering I literally AFK every BG I queue into and I still have like a 50% winrate I think it's very very obvious that player skill in BGs does not matter at all. If it did then I should have a pretty low winrate since I don't even participate. And that's for both epic BGs and normal BGs, so you can't even argue that it matters less in epic BGs, because it literally doesn't matter in either type. I'd love to hear how you think skill is important though in a game mode that you can win without even being at your computer.
    You're so full of nonsense.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    You're so full of nonsense.
    It's so weird how I literally show you the math on why you're wrong, explain it perfectly, give examples, and the best you can respond with is "No you're wrong." with literally nothing of interest to say.

    It's wild how now in 2 different threads you've said a bunch of literally retarded things, I've proved why you're wrong, and you respond with nonsense and run with your tail between your legs. Just stop responding, you're humiliating yourself.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    It's so weird how I literally show you the math on why you're wrong, explain it perfectly, give examples, and the best you can respond with is "No you're wrong." with literally nothing of interest to say.

    It's wild how now in 2 different threads you've said a bunch of literally retarded things, I've proved why you're wrong, and you respond with nonsense and run with your tail between your legs. Just stop responding, you're humiliating yourself.
    My BG win rate this season is 74%, which is pretty similar to my overall BG win rate since statistics starting being tracked in 2008. You are at 50% because people like me carry your sorry afk ass for honor gains. People like you who AFK in group content should just get straight up banned. You're an asshole, but somehow I think you already know this and probably take pride in it, so I guess there's not much reason to point it out to you.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    My BG win rate this season is 74%, which is pretty similar to my overall BG win rate since statistics starting being tracked in 2008. You are at 50% because people like me carry your sorry afk ass for honor gains. People like you who AFK in group content should just get straight up banned. You're an asshole, but somehow I think you already know this and probably take pride in it, so I guess there's not much reason to point it out to you.
    74% winrate tryharding every game versus 50% winrate literally not playing, so basically as long as you show up at all you're likely to win. Kind of proves my point about how little skill matters in BGs.

    And I don't AFK in group content, I AFK in BGs where it doesn't matter at all. I'd never AFK in any type of content that actually mattered or needed me, that would be toxic.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    People trashed Ashran - but I thought the base idea of it was one of the best they've had in a long time.

    We need more continuous, evolving epic/large scale BGs.

    I think SotA was really fun. Epic BGs in SL has been the worst ever, the whole modern combat mechanics etc don't really fit with a 40vs40 combat situation.
    You'll get into a 40vs40 fight and the game will just desync/lagg out and either yours or the other team dies in a lagg spike.

    DF looks like an extension of SL combat mechanics, I hope this isn't the case but from alpha it looks like they are just rebranding SL with the new talent system that doesn't really change anything.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2022-07-29 at 04:31 AM.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    How to find the Rogue Mains:

    "SL Pee Vee Pee is good"

    *Runs*
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    My BG win rate this season is 74%, which is pretty similar to my overall BG win rate since statistics starting being tracked in 2008. You are at 50% because people like me carry your sorry afk ass for honor gains. People like you who AFK in group content should just get straight up banned. You're an asshole, but somehow I think you already know this and probably take pride in it, so I guess there's not much reason to point it out to you.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...-dawn/srsp/pvp - 74% such a casual winrate lol.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    74% winrate tryharding every game versus 50% winrate literally not playing, so basically as long as you show up at all you're likely to win
    So you only lose if literally no one tries? That's not how statistics work, guy. But you already know that and are just being intentionally obtuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    And I don't AFK in group content, I AFK in BGs where it doesn't matter at all. I'd never AFK in any type of content that actually mattered or needed me, that would be toxic.
    Translation: "I don't like BGs, therefore they don't matter." Only things you enjoy matter? If only your brain could even approach the lofty dimensions of your ego.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Those are rated matches. There are so few dedicated, coordinated groups of skilled players queuing RBGs that those who do are virtually guaranteed to win. That's essentially the same as a rank 1 3v3 team being able to queue against a random solo shuffle team. Predictable results.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    So you only lose if literally no one tries? That's not how statistics work, guy. But you already know that and are just being intentionally obtuse.
    That is very obviously not what I said, I guess maybe reading isn't something you're particularly good at. It's actually impressive, because not only is it not what I said it isn't even particularly close, I'm genuinely not even sure how you managed to interpret it that way unless you purposely tried to twist it to suit your narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Translation: "I don't like BGs, therefore they don't matter." Only things you enjoy matter? If only your brain could even approach the lofty dimensions of your ego.
    BGs don't matter because they serve no purpose beyond honor grinding. Losing quickly in BGs is just as useful as winning slowly. The outcome is literally irrelevant, speed is the only thing that matters. The game wouldn't go any faster with me trying, therefore there's no purpose for me to put in effort and I'm allowed to AFK. Even if me trying hard got me from 50% winrate to 74% winrate it *still* wouldn't be worthwhile because the honor increase would be negligible and it would make it far more tedious to do.

    All they have to do to make BGs more interesting is increase the reward for winning significantly, and reduce the player count down to like 5 so individual skill can actually matter. Then I'd play them and it could be fun. But the only two BGs where a player can have any real impact are the capture the flag maps, all the others are entirely random whether you'll win or not, no matter how good you are.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Those are rated matches. There are so few dedicated, coordinated groups of skilled players queuing RBGs that those who do are virtually guaranteed to win. That's essentially the same as a rank 1 3v3 team being able to queue against a random solo shuffle team. Predictable results.
    Those are not rated matches. If they were rated matches I would have like 9001 personal rating.

    Look at me I know everything and I will explain reality to you because I'm an academic.

    BGs don't matter because they serve no purpose beyond honor grinding.
    Ahh yes, Once upon a time people played this game for fun but now it's all about efficiency and meta slavery, and token sale profits, and player profits supported by token sale profits, ahh the good new age.

    But the only two BGs where a player can have any real impact are the capture the flag maps, all the others are entirely random whether you'll win or not, no matter how good you are.
    False.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2022-07-30 at 08:04 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    That is very obviously not what I said, I guess maybe reading isn't something you're particularly good at. It's actually impressive, because not only is it not what I said it isn't even particularly close, I'm genuinely not even sure how you managed to interpret it that way unless you purposely tried to twist it to suit your narrative.
    Let me quote yourself back to you then:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    as long as you show up at all you're likely to win
    There are two teams. Both show up. They're both likely to win? I thought you were just being obtuse, but I guess you really are just that dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    BGs don't matter because they serve no purpose beyond honor grinding.
    I know it sounds crazy, but some people play video games to have fun. Perhaps you don't think BGs are fun, and that's fine. But others do. If you are queuing for BGs knowing that you have zero desire to play them, you might want to re-evaluate some things in your life. I think solo shuffle might be what you're looking for.

    When you join that group content that other people are playing for fun and then refuse to participate, knowing that you are making it more likely for your 9-14 other teammates to lose by doing so, that IS toxic behavior and you know it. You just think you're more important.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Those are not rated matches. If they were rated matches I would have like 9001 personal rating.
    Well on the armory page itself it literally says "Lifetime rated match history," so you can see why I'd think that. But I checked my own armory profile and I see now that it is actually just random BGs.

    So what do you do to get a near 100% win rate? Even if you're queuing exclusively with geared, skilled premades I find that winrate statistically very unlikely. My guess is a lot of /afks out of losing matches, but perhaps you really are the best player of all time.

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