Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    So you only lose if literally no one tries? That's not how statistics work, guy. But you already know that and are just being intentionally obtuse.
    That is very obviously not what I said, I guess maybe reading isn't something you're particularly good at. It's actually impressive, because not only is it not what I said it isn't even particularly close, I'm genuinely not even sure how you managed to interpret it that way unless you purposely tried to twist it to suit your narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Translation: "I don't like BGs, therefore they don't matter." Only things you enjoy matter? If only your brain could even approach the lofty dimensions of your ego.
    BGs don't matter because they serve no purpose beyond honor grinding. Losing quickly in BGs is just as useful as winning slowly. The outcome is literally irrelevant, speed is the only thing that matters. The game wouldn't go any faster with me trying, therefore there's no purpose for me to put in effort and I'm allowed to AFK. Even if me trying hard got me from 50% winrate to 74% winrate it *still* wouldn't be worthwhile because the honor increase would be negligible and it would make it far more tedious to do.

    All they have to do to make BGs more interesting is increase the reward for winning significantly, and reduce the player count down to like 5 so individual skill can actually matter. Then I'd play them and it could be fun. But the only two BGs where a player can have any real impact are the capture the flag maps, all the others are entirely random whether you'll win or not, no matter how good you are.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Those are rated matches. There are so few dedicated, coordinated groups of skilled players queuing RBGs that those who do are virtually guaranteed to win. That's essentially the same as a rank 1 3v3 team being able to queue against a random solo shuffle team. Predictable results.
    Those are not rated matches. If they were rated matches I would have like 9001 personal rating.

    Look at me I know everything and I will explain reality to you because I'm an academic.

    BGs don't matter because they serve no purpose beyond honor grinding.
    Ahh yes, Once upon a time people played this game for fun but now it's all about efficiency and meta slavery, and token sale profits, and player profits supported by token sale profits, ahh the good new age.

    But the only two BGs where a player can have any real impact are the capture the flag maps, all the others are entirely random whether you'll win or not, no matter how good you are.
    False.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2022-07-30 at 08:04 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    That is very obviously not what I said, I guess maybe reading isn't something you're particularly good at. It's actually impressive, because not only is it not what I said it isn't even particularly close, I'm genuinely not even sure how you managed to interpret it that way unless you purposely tried to twist it to suit your narrative.
    Let me quote yourself back to you then:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    as long as you show up at all you're likely to win
    There are two teams. Both show up. They're both likely to win? I thought you were just being obtuse, but I guess you really are just that dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    BGs don't matter because they serve no purpose beyond honor grinding.
    I know it sounds crazy, but some people play video games to have fun. Perhaps you don't think BGs are fun, and that's fine. But others do. If you are queuing for BGs knowing that you have zero desire to play them, you might want to re-evaluate some things in your life. I think solo shuffle might be what you're looking for.

    When you join that group content that other people are playing for fun and then refuse to participate, knowing that you are making it more likely for your 9-14 other teammates to lose by doing so, that IS toxic behavior and you know it. You just think you're more important.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nvaelz View Post
    Those are not rated matches. If they were rated matches I would have like 9001 personal rating.
    Well on the armory page itself it literally says "Lifetime rated match history," so you can see why I'd think that. But I checked my own armory profile and I see now that it is actually just random BGs.

    So what do you do to get a near 100% win rate? Even if you're queuing exclusively with geared, skilled premades I find that winrate statistically very unlikely. My guess is a lot of /afks out of losing matches, but perhaps you really are the best player of all time.

  4. #44
    My biggest problem with PVP is the same as it has always been. If you arent there from the beginning you are screwed. People are boosting left and right. So if you dont have a booster it requires SO much extra work to break the brackets to upgrade gear. I would have liked to see a better bracket system so you can get some gear running and not just BOOM 1800 here is a full set of gear - I actually think that some of the balance is good and some is stupid. Killed within 2-4 seconds is just wrong, but it is also luck/rare.

    But my friends and I started late in Shadowlands and had to quit because of bad combo of classes (too little CC which is another problem, diminish in returns should be applied to ALL CC in pvp tbh) - and a lack of skill ofc because we just got owned often by an overgeared dps that you couldnt even outheal without the gear. So everyone quit at 1800

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Pissegreat View Post
    My biggest problem with PVP is the same as it has always been. If you arent there from the beginning you are screwed. People are boosting left and right. So if you dont have a booster it requires SO much extra work to break the brackets to upgrade gear. I would have liked to see a better bracket system so you can get some gear running and not just BOOM 1800 here is a full set of gear - I actually think that some of the balance is good and some is stupid. Killed within 2-4 seconds is just wrong, but it is also luck/rare.

    But my friends and I started late in Shadowlands and had to quit because of bad combo of classes (too little CC which is another problem, diminish in returns should be applied to ALL CC in pvp tbh) - and a lack of skill ofc because we just got owned often by an overgeared dps that you couldnt even outheal without the gear. So everyone quit at 1800
    Luckily in Dragonflight they're doing away with the awful PvP gear upgrade system. Back to simple honor gear and conquest gear. So even if you slave away at 1400 all season, you'll still get the gear.

  6. #46
    I don't PVP....

    but when I do,

    I play the class that one shots people.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Let me quote yourself back to you then:

    There are two teams. Both show up. They're both likely to win? I thought you were just being obtuse, but I guess you really are just that dumb.
    I'm accounting for the fact that you can have a 50% winrate without playing, which means your team has 9 players playing and their team has 10 (or 14/15, etc.) so as long as you individually do anything at all you're likely to have above a 50% winrate. And I know you'll have a 50% winrate if you do literally nothing, because I do nothing and I have a 50% winrate. My winrate is actually a bit over 50% if my armory is to be believed, but it also says I have a 1550% winrate in Eye of the Storm so I suspect I shouldn't believe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Let me quote yourself back to you then:
    I know it sounds crazy, but some people play video games to have fun. Perhaps you don't think BGs are fun, and that's fine. But others do. If you are queuing for BGs knowing that you have zero desire to play them, you might want to re-evaluate some things in your life. I think solo shuffle might be what you're looking for.

    When you join that group content that other people are playing for fun and then refuse to participate, knowing that you are making it more likely for your 9-14 other teammates to lose by doing so, that IS toxic behavior and you know it. You just think you're more important.
    Solo shuffle is slightly better, but the queue is long unless I'm healing and it requires actual focus. My only goal is to grind honor to upgrade gear, I'd much rather do that AFK while I watch Netflix or play Runescape or something than focus on it in solo shuffle. Doesn't make a lot of sense to focus for 30 minutes in solo shuffle for 1500 honor when I can literally not look at my monitor for 30 minutes for 1000 honor in BGs.

    And I don't really think it makes any difference, if I have a 50% or higher winrate while not playing I think that makes it very very obvious that it doesn't hurt my teammates for me to not be participating. Plus, if people find BGs fun as you claim they do then it shouldn't matter what I'm doing. They can run around and mash their buttons and pretend they're accomplishing something whether I'm there or not, so I don't really see how what I do impacts their fun.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    it doesn't hurt my teammates for me to not be participating.
    You have really deluded yourself if you think this is the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    Plus, if people find BGs fun as you claim they do then it shouldn't matter what I'm doing. They can run around and mash their buttons and pretend they're accomplishing something whether I'm there or not, so I don't really see how what I do impacts their fun.
    Again, you're being willfully ignorant. I'm sure you can grasp that there are people who play BGs for fun. Those who do play for fun still prefer to win games. By YOUR OWN ADMISSION, if you were to actually play and try your teams would win more games. Obviously there are a lot of factors that go into who wins a BG (gear, skill, people playing the objectives vs. farming kills, etc.), but essentially playing 9 vs 10 or 14 vs 15 is a disadvantage. I'm sure even you can agree to that. As someone who does enjoy BGs, I can tell you that if I'm trying to defend a point and end up barely losing it, knowing if I even had one more person fighting there with me we would've held it, seeing some jackass AFK in the back of the map DOES affect my experience. You've just convinced yourself that since you don't care about it, no one else does/should either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    My only goal is to grind honor to upgrade gear, I'd much rather do that AFK while I watch Netflix or play Runescape or something than focus on it in solo shuffle. Doesn't make a lot of sense to focus for 30 minutes in solo shuffle for 1500 honor when I can literally not look at my monitor for 30 minutes for 1000 honor in BGs.
    You say you don't want to play BGs because "skill doesn't matter." So you prefer arenas. Fine. Yet you have an opportunity to play arena to get your honor (solo shuffle) where, by your logic, skill must matter. But it doesn't "make sense" for you to do it if you can literally not play the game instead. Why do you play the game if not to play the game?

    Either way, you're free to do whatever floats your boat, and I'm sure nothing I say is going to make you change your behavior. But don't pretend that going into a competitive group activity then refusing to participate isn't a selfish and shitty thing to do.

  9. #49
    Pvp is stuck in a weird place right now. While the classes are fun and exciting button presses, WOW Arena is a complete and total disaster. To quote Holinka "stuff must die" makes a lot of sense for assured shorter matches. Then again, some classes DO NOT die because of self-healing which 100% contradictory to Holinka's statement.
    Also, the idea of bundling a ridiculously high burst meta and several Ilvl tiers of gear is just plain dumb. As a result you are continuously punching out of your weight class and the notion of skill becomes less and less of a factor.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post

    Again, you're being willfully ignorant. I'm sure you can grasp that there are people who play BGs for fun. Those who do play for fun still prefer to win games. By YOUR OWN ADMISSION, if you were to actually play and try your teams would win more games. Obviously there are a lot of factors that go into who wins a BG (gear, skill, people playing the objectives vs. farming kills, etc.), but essentially playing 9 vs 10 or 14 vs 15 is a disadvantage. I'm sure even you can agree to that. As someone who does enjoy BGs, I can tell you that if I'm trying to defend a point and end up barely losing it, knowing if I even had one more person fighting there with me we would've held it, seeing some jackass AFK in the back of the map DOES affect my experience. You've just convinced yourself that since you don't care about it, no one else does/should either.
    But why would you experience be negatively affected by that? You still got to have your little fight and almost won, you had your fun, who cares about the overall
    outcome? I think the problem is you're taking something seriously that's designed to not be taken seriously. I think you'd have a much better time in RBGs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    You say you don't want to play BGs because "skill doesn't matter." So you prefer arenas. Fine. Yet you have an opportunity to play arena to get your honor (solo shuffle) where, by your logic, skill must matter. But it doesn't "make sense" for you to do it if you can literally not play the game instead. Why do you play the game if not to play the game?
    I mean I think there's a very very good argument you could make that solo shuffle also doesn't require skill as almost every solo shuffle I've been in is entirely decided by gear. There's almost always one guy with like 20-30k less hp than everyone else who just automatically loses instantly every round.

    That aside though, I play competitive modes with friends to try and improve. In order to do that in arenas I need honor, in order to realistically farm honor I need to do game modes that are not fun in any way. So I can either not have fun in solo shuffle, or I can afk in BGs, seems like a pretty obvious answer. Solo shuffle would need to give like 2-3x more honor for it to be worth the effort it would take. M+ doesn't have this problem, as all the gear you get from m+ is used in m+. Arenas though requires you to farm an absurd amount of honor, and doing that in arenas just isn't very viable.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    But why would you experience be negatively affected by that? You still got to have your little fight and almost won, you had your fun, who cares about the overall
    outcome? I think the problem is you're taking something seriously that's designed to not be taken seriously. I think you'd have a much better time in RBGs.
    Why do you need to upgrade your conquest gear? Who cares if you win the arena or not? You get to go in and have your little fight and have your fun. The outcome doesn't matter. I think you're taking arenas too seriously. It's just a video game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati
    I mean I think there's a very very good argument you could make that solo shuffle also doesn't require skill as almost every solo shuffle I've been in is entirely decided by gear. There's almost always one guy with like 20-30k less hp than everyone else who just automatically loses instantly every round.

    That aside though, I play competitive modes with friends to try and improve. In order to do that in arenas I need honor, in order to realistically farm honor I need to do game modes that are not fun in any way. So I can either not have fun in solo shuffle, or I can afk in BGs, seems like a pretty obvious answer. Solo shuffle would need to give like 2-3x more honor for it to be worth the effort it would take. M+ doesn't have this problem, as all the gear you get from m+ is used in m+. Arenas though requires you to farm an absurd amount of honor, and doing that in arenas just isn't very viable.
    Here at least we have some common ground. The PvP gearing system in Shadowlands is a complete abomination and one of the main reasons I have stopped playing this expansion. To be fair, I don't think you should have to do BGs, something you don't want to do, just to be competitive in arenas. But that also doesn't give you the right to ruin everyone else's experience in the BG by sitting in stealth AFK. Whether you want to admit it or not, that makes you an ass. It is even a bannable offense in-game. Whether or not you think people should care is completely irrelevant.

    Thankfully Dragonflight will remove the ridiculous PvP gear tier system and you can stop having to queue for BGs, and stop pissing off people who actually want to play them.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbleem View Post
    Well on the armory page itself it literally says "Lifetime rated match history," so you can see why I'd think that. But I checked my own armory profile and I see now that it is actually just random BGs.

    So what do you do to get a near 100% win rate? Even if you're queuing exclusively with geared, skilled premades I find that winrate statistically very unlikely. My guess is a lot of /afks out of losing matches, but perhaps you really are the best player of all time.
    I never afk out of matches. I decided to only play in degenerate premades on this char and never solo.
    All of my AB losses were vs the same horde premade. That same horde premade is one I'll join when I'm on my main horde priest.
    My main horde priest has like 10k matches and 85% winratio but I queue solo or with anyone however i feel like.

    I don't think I'm that good but I'm the type of guy that will try to 1v10 people from the graveyard while my team is being camped cuz I think it's fun to try to fight back, and when someone "gets me" in a bg and I lose I'm very excited cuz I wanna fight them again.

    Goku style! Kinda, cuz ofc there's the times where I just know there's literally no chance to win at all, and I might not even feel like having fun and trying to take as many of them down with me as possible, it happens.

    I don't think bgs/epic bgs have been fun in SL it's been so super lame I'd have to write a very long wall of text to explain my disatisfaction.
    In pretty much every previous expansion individual player power was larger. Some guy was like "casuals have quit and now everyone playing is decent/above average" but he was wrong cuz the game design has allowed players to be more decent naturally cuz of how combat mechanics work.

    I like pure skill games more than any game and SL is a condom expansion and it's SOO lame.
    In some way skill is deeper in SL cuz the cd trading gameplay is more extensive, so that makes stuff like duels, arena, rbgs etc more intense, but when you're facing random casuals in a random bg you'll really notice how the class power boosts the players ability.

    Even more basically, in BFA I was a threat to the entire team if I queued solo in an ashran, cuz I would pve pressure and dodge literally everyone. In SL I'm like a killshot generator and I just do a gcd push on 1 guy and maybe he dies unless he presses his 1 defensive cd and survives. SUPER LAME.
    Last edited by nvaelz; 2022-07-31 at 09:15 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •