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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raziel1258 View Post
    So, I basically fit your criteria you have written OP, 30-40, have wife, have kids, have job ... and I still think Naxx will be easy even after buff, seems by your post history, that you just complain and complain like you want to turn the game into some version where you could just collect "pat on the back" currency for logging in, go straight to vendor and buy BiS gear for it.

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    also, there are 3 posts that support your cause in whole thread (including your OP) out of 40 in total, that doesnt sound like "many agree with you" as you said.

    You gotta remember tho that MMO-Champion is a fan site. Most people here support ANY decision Blizzard make.

    If you look at Discord or even in game, it's a completely different thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapo View Post
    Naxx realm firsts were done with ppl who didnt even hit 80 and were using SWP/Greens. like massive buffs are definitely warranted.
    Warranted for what? Who says the game has to offer a higher challenge?

    Look at Molten Core, the greatest time I ever had in the game back in 2019. It was chill, easy, near unwipeable and you could bring ANY 40 players and still one shot it. It was AMAZING. The community was nicer back then, less toxicity, less elitism, and raiding felt really fun.

    Wipes create toxicity. No thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Why? What about creating some *dad gamer* guild and raiding once per week when people have time?
    Many of us can't commit to raiding the same time every week. Things can (and will) come in the way eventually, whether it's work or family stuff.

    Pugging is golden, whenever you get a few free hours, you decide when to play, as it's almost always some pug active. However with buffed Naxx, I fear finding a pug will be near impossible, as pugs won't be able to clear it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    I won't change anything.
    It will be still fucking joke as hell.
    1st WotLK tier is one of the easiest this game ever had.

    I truly hope you are right, but I fear it will crawl with wipes and disbands, killing non-gdkp pugging

    Even back in 2008, a few bosses usually caused wipes for pugs, like Patchwerk, Sapphiron, Kelthuzad etc.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    I truly hope you are right, but I fear it will crawl with wipes and disbands, killing non-gdkp pugging

    Even back in 2008, a few bosses usually caused wipes for pugs, like Patchwerk, Sapphiron, Kelthuzad etc.
    Youre way overestimating how difficult it will be lol. Naxx isnt going to kill any guilds at all. They are buffing hp and dmg, not mechanics. They dumbed down a lot of mechanics for the wrath version. Those arent being reversed.

  3. #63
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    Maybe it was just my terrible guild at the time, but we struggled occasionally with KTs tank damage in Wrath. The thing I remember fondly about Naxx is that there were pugs for it the entire expansion put together by absolute nobodies with 0 requirements to join. Hopefully this doesn't change Naxx as a jumping in point for people who don't have much time or skill to raid. I think the amount of time it takes to clear will be the biggest factor. People liked being able to clear it in one night without committing to any schedules or guilds. Considering most Classic players just progression raided Naxx, I can't understand why so many seem keen on increasing the time they spend in it now.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    I'm "crying" because:

    - I expect wipe after wipe after wipe, clearing a few bosses at max, and if people don't leave at a wipe it's a miracle.
    - I expect there will be extreme demands to join, gear, achievements etc, making it nearly impossible to find a raid.
    - I expect pug raiding to die completely, and the only chance I ever have at clearing Naxx is with GDKP and that sucks.

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    But why? This is suppose to be the casual nostalgic exprience of WoW. If you want challenge, why don't you play retail?
    Dude, by your criteria, why do you even wanna raid in WoTLK to begin with? How was wotlk the dad gamer expansion other than valor gear? Ulduar and ICC were both raids that were harder than anything that came before them regardless of the difficulty mode you picked. Even if naxx was left piss easy (which I guarantee you it still will be just like MC on SoM), what would you do after that?

    Blizzard tries to catter to the middle ground. You are not the middle ground. The middle ground are the people who play this game as a hobby. Those people come back from work/college/school, do their chores, spend time with family/kids etc and then dedicate 1-3 hours (depending on the day) to their favorite hobby without necessarily sucking balls at playing it. I have extremely limited time and yet still raid on retail. I just dont raid mythic, simple as that. I still do a +15 with my pals before I go to bed and I still kick a heroic sepulcher with my guildies once a week. If sepulcher was a joke and we one shot it day one I d literally lose interest.

    Its all about the people you play and finding a middle ground. You can have a dad guild and still do more challenging raids that cause a few wipes. For normal people who play with the same mindset, wipes cause laughs not drama. If someone causes drama and doesnt fit your group then boot him the fuck out and tell him to find a guild that suits his needs.
    And you know what you can do about the odd times of everyone? What everyone else does as well. Larger roster of people. We set a raid on sunday for example. We have 40 potential people that wanna sign up. We need at least 10 to get kickin. Sometimes I can do sunday sometimes I cannot. If I miss a raid I wont flip my shit and nor will the rest of the guild cause everyone has tight programms. Little by little we climbed and cleared and it was fun. Just find like minded people and move on.

  5. #65
    Did you think wrath naxx was anything but a pug run?
    A buff when classes will be stronger than before will still be easy

  6. #66
    Here comes Battlebeard again to whine that content that could be cleared by someone in a coma is too hard for them.

    At this point it's not the game that's the issue

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    You gotta remember tho that MMO-Champion is a fan site. Most people here support ANY decision Blizzard make.
    This isn't wowhead.

    Truth is that WotLK Naxx was WAY WAY too easy and with WotLK being a raidloggers paradise, the raids needs to be tuned harder or people won't stay.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    I truly hope you are right, but I fear it will crawl with wipes and disbands, killing non-gdkp pugging

    Even back in 2008, a few bosses usually caused wipes for pugs, like Patchwerk, Sapphiron, Kelthuzad etc.
    They clearly said they want to buff HP pool and dmg of stuff.
    Even if it is 50% (which i doubt and probably more like 20-30%) it will be still a joke.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post


    Many of us can't commit to raiding the same time every week. Things can (and will) come in the way eventually, whether it's work or family stuff.
    And that's fine, there will be people to substitute you sometimes and since you enjoy playing the game when the opportunity presents itself - no one will be offended.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    As you might know, Naxx in WotLK Classic will be buffed and harder than it was back in the day. Some people cheer for this, but I think this will be a HUGE disaster for the game. Now, I will generalize some, and I don't speak for everyone, but I know many agree with me. Read everything before you comment please!

    Lets face it, WoW Classic is the "dad-gamer" version of WoW. While there are some super tryhards, most of us are 30-40+ and have quite busy lives. Whether we have kids or not, being called "boomer" or "dad gamer" or even "casual" make most of us say "yeah, true" rather than getting upset. Where am I getting at? I'm getting at that many of us do NOT appriciate difficulty, and what we love of Classic is a nostalgic trip back in time, chill easy raids, and laughs with friends. If we wanted challenge, we'd play Retail.

    The proof is out there. Classic since 2019 has been GREAT with a few exceptions, or rather 2 moments of total despair, Tier 5 pre-nerf and SWP. There is no coincidence tons and tons of guilds fell appart at those moments and that tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands of players quit. T5 and especially SWP was freaking awful and ruined so much of what we love with the idea of Classic.

    For many, maybe even most of us "dad gamers", guildraiding is simply not an option, and hasn't been needed outside of pre-nerf T5 and SWP. Our lives are simply too busy. And that is fine. This is the version of the game that you should be able to Pug all the way. Do not say this game is made for guilds, cause it's simply not true. "Join a guild" is not an option and not relevant in this discussion. Anyway, SWP is completely unpugable. The only succesful pugs I've seen on Firemaw EU (the biggest server in Europe) are semi guild runs (which aren't really pugs) and GDKP runs. Doing like "hm, I got some spare time, lets run SWP, ok going trade chat LFM SWP Need..." days didn't exist now, and with the buffs to Naxxramas, they will still be non existent.

    This is terrible. I hyped WotLK so much, for many, many months. Since I killed Illidan in January with a pug, I have hyped this, cause I knew the game soon (with SWP release) would be unplayable and I looked forward to easier content. Now, there is no hype. I am not sure I will do ANY boss in WotLK, and since I love raiding, should I even play it? Now, if you think "your loss", do you really think it's just our loss, when you start seeing thousands and thousands of people quit?

    Look, T5 and SWP almost KILLED Classic TBC since it killed pugging. And worse yet, it's part of the continued growth of the cancer that is GDKP. People complain and rage over Diablo Immortal, but TBC is even more P2W with this plague that is GDKP. Cause lets face it, the ONLY way to experience SWP right now is to join a GDKP, and you can't get in those unless you are rich, hence making the game completely P2W.

    What do you think is gonna happen with buffed Naxx. Soft Reset pugs will DIE. Pugging will DIE. Guild raiding is not an option for so many, many, many of us, our only 2 options will be to quit, or to basically buy gold and join GDKP runs of Naxx, making it further P2W. Does ANYONE think this is healthy for the game?

    There are no winners with buffed Naxxramas. NO ONE wins with this. Buffed Naxx will be too hard for us dad gamers, but still give ZERO prestige for guilds, as it's STILL MUCH EASIER than anything retail offer, so who actually wants it buffed? Buffed Naxxramas will lead to so many thousands of people quitting, and those who stay will plague the game by making the dispicable thing that is GDKP even bigger. If you think GDKP is bad now, it's gonna get ten times worse in WotLK.

    What are your thoughts? Do you think Blizz will nerf it after a while? Maybe even pre-launch? Do you think this can lead to the end of WoW Classic? I already predicted ICC will kill the game, and that Cataclysm will never happen, because those 2 are far too hard for what most people want. But that's far ahead, could this game be doomed even before we get it?
    Original Naxx25 was easier than Molten Core, Pal.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    As you might know, Naxx in WotLK Classic will be buffed and harder than it was back in the day. Some people cheer for this, but I think this will be a HUGE disaster for the game. Now, I will generalize some, and I don't speak for everyone, but I know many agree with me. Read everything before you comment please!

    Lets face it, WoW Classic is the "dad-gamer" version of WoW. While there are some super tryhards, most of us are 30-40+ and have quite busy lives. Whether we have kids or not, being called "boomer" or "dad gamer" or even "casual" make most of us say "yeah, true" rather than getting upset. Where am I getting at? I'm getting at that many of us do NOT appriciate difficulty, and what we love of Classic is a nostalgic trip back in time, chill easy raids, and laughs with friends. If we wanted challenge, we'd play Retail.

    The proof is out there. Classic since 2019 has been GREAT with a few exceptions, or rather 2 moments of total despair, Tier 5 pre-nerf and SWP. There is no coincidence tons and tons of guilds fell appart at those moments and that tens of thousands, maybe hundred of thousands of players quit. T5 and especially SWP was freaking awful and ruined so much of what we love with the idea of Classic.

    For many, maybe even most of us "dad gamers", guildraiding is simply not an option, and hasn't been needed outside of pre-nerf T5 and SWP. Our lives are simply too busy. And that is fine. This is the version of the game that you should be able to Pug all the way. Do not say this game is made for guilds, cause it's simply not true. "Join a guild" is not an option and not relevant in this discussion. Anyway, SWP is completely unpugable. The only succesful pugs I've seen on Firemaw EU (the biggest server in Europe) are semi guild runs (which aren't really pugs) and GDKP runs. Doing like "hm, I got some spare time, lets run SWP, ok going trade chat LFM SWP Need..." days didn't exist now, and with the buffs to Naxxramas, they will still be non existent.

    This is terrible. I hyped WotLK so much, for many, many months. Since I killed Illidan in January with a pug, I have hyped this, cause I knew the game soon (with SWP release) would be unplayable and I looked forward to easier content. Now, there is no hype. I am not sure I will do ANY boss in WotLK, and since I love raiding, should I even play it? Now, if you think "your loss", do you really think it's just our loss, when you start seeing thousands and thousands of people quit?

    Look, T5 and SWP almost KILLED Classic TBC since it killed pugging. And worse yet, it's part of the continued growth of the cancer that is GDKP. People complain and rage over Diablo Immortal, but TBC is even more P2W with this plague that is GDKP. Cause lets face it, the ONLY way to experience SWP right now is to join a GDKP, and you can't get in those unless you are rich, hence making the game completely P2W.

    What do you think is gonna happen with buffed Naxx. Soft Reset pugs will DIE. Pugging will DIE. Guild raiding is not an option for so many, many, many of us, our only 2 options will be to quit, or to basically buy gold and join GDKP runs of Naxx, making it further P2W. Does ANYONE think this is healthy for the game?

    There are no winners with buffed Naxxramas. NO ONE wins with this. Buffed Naxx will be too hard for us dad gamers, but still give ZERO prestige for guilds, as it's STILL MUCH EASIER than anything retail offer, so who actually wants it buffed? Buffed Naxxramas will lead to so many thousands of people quitting, and those who stay will plague the game by making the dispicable thing that is GDKP even bigger. If you think GDKP is bad now, it's gonna get ten times worse in WotLK.

    What are your thoughts? Do you think Blizz will nerf it after a while? Maybe even pre-launch? Do you think this can lead to the end of WoW Classic? I already predicted ICC will kill the game, and that Cataclysm will never happen, because those 2 are far too hard for what most people want. But that's far ahead, could this game be doomed even before we get it?
    classic uses end game versions of each expansion after many many nerfs to the dungeons and raids

    if they use this version every raid will be easier then how it existed in the past when released
    10 reports = instant ban without GM review (people need to be in different guilds or you will need more reports)
    you can organize a 11th person in your discord to provoke the person you want banned then report for literary no real reason... anything that can be considered "toxic" is a valid reason for the ban to stay on the account and will not be removed
    https://youtu.be/OcSiCgFDYhY

  12. #72
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
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    LK Naxx was OFFENSIVELY trivial for my casual guild even back then when some of late BC raids/endbosses were fairly hard for us.
    Buffing Naxx won't make it unpuggable.
    GDKP is not P2W and noone forces anyone to play GDKP runs.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millyraynge View Post
    Original Naxx25 was easier than Molten Core, Pal.
    No, it was not, not even remotely. Naxx 25 was wipeable, had some actual mechanics.

    I've done MC with 25 man and most weren't good geared at all, it was much easier.

  14. #74
    It's easy because of mechanics, not damage tuning.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    Dude, by your criteria, why do you even wanna raid in WoTLK to begin with? How was wotlk the dad gamer expansion other than valor gear? Ulduar and ICC were both raids that were harder than anything that came before them regardless of the difficulty mode you picked. Even if naxx was left piss easy (which I guarantee you it still will be just like MC on SoM), what would you do after that?

    Blizzard tries to catter to the middle ground. You are not the middle ground. The middle ground are the people who play this game as a hobby. Those people come back from work/college/school, do their chores, spend time with family/kids etc and then dedicate 1-3 hours (depending on the day) to their favorite hobby without necessarily sucking balls at playing it. I have extremely limited time and yet still raid on retail. I just dont raid mythic, simple as that. I still do a +15 with my pals before I go to bed and I still kick a heroic sepulcher with my guildies once a week. If sepulcher was a joke and we one shot it day one I d literally lose interest.

    Its all about the people you play and finding a middle ground. You can have a dad guild and still do more challenging raids that cause a few wipes. For normal people who play with the same mindset, wipes cause laughs not drama. If someone causes drama and doesnt fit your group then boot him the fuck out and tell him to find a guild that suits his needs.
    And you know what you can do about the odd times of everyone? What everyone else does as well. Larger roster of people. We set a raid on sunday for example. We have 40 potential people that wanna sign up. We need at least 10 to get kickin. Sometimes I can do sunday sometimes I cannot. If I miss a raid I wont flip my shit and nor will the rest of the guild cause everyone has tight programms. Little by little we climbed and cleared and it was fun. Just find like minded people and move on.
    It's not easy to find likeminded people, cause the game is pushing us out. What I want is this:

    1. Some guy is writing "LFM Naxx 25, Need X, Y, Z, 2 SR etc"
    2. Write him "inv, Hunter"
    3. Get invited, go to the raid.
    4. Clear it smooth and easy, have a few laughs, no wipes, get some gear, no GDKP crap, everyone is happy
    5. Repeat next week

    But what we are gonna have is this:

    1. LFM Naxx, Multiple clears needed, checking armory, gearscore (or other way to check gear) required, and checking logs!
    2. Asks for invite, of course get declined, cause one cannot get either achievement or gear if you don't get invited
    3. Keeps asking different leaders
    4. Eventually, 20 raids later, one guy is easing up on the requirements, invites you, however the raid then turns out to be too hard
    5. Wipes over and over and over, one guy leave, replace, two guy leave replace, but then when the next leave just disband, saved with 2-3 bosses dead
    6. To clear, one has to take out the credit card, get some gold (would be legal gold for me with game token-> trade retail/classic) but others might get illegal gold
    7. Feel forced to join GDKPs and buy gear...

    I want the first series of events, but I really expect the second, a complete nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    LK Naxx was OFFENSIVELY trivial for my casual guild even back then when some of late BC raids/endbosses were fairly hard for us.
    Buffing Naxx won't make it unpuggable.
    GDKP is not P2W and noone forces anyone to play GDKP runs.
    How is it not P2W?

    If you cannot raid in a guild, and pugs can't clear the content, your only option to clear it is GDKP, aka buying it.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkaden View Post
    Hate to tell ya, but its going to be cleared in 77 greens regardless. The mechanics are too easy. Buffing HP and boss damage wont change anything.
    That's fine either way LOL

    The OP is worried that casual dad gamers won't be able to clear buffed Naxx, and I'm just merely saying that shouldn't be a concern.

    If you're suggesting that the top top players will be able to clear it in greens, then of course. I don't care either way, the point is that there is no reason to worry that Naxx is going to be too hard lol

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post

    How is it not P2W?

    If you cannot raid in a guild, and pugs can't clear the content, your only option to clear it is GDKP, aka buying it.
    Take this from a dad gamer who has played private servers who have made content harder for the fun of it…. Pugs will be rolling through all content minus MAYBE ICC heroic, TOGC, and hard modes and MAYBE even yog.

    They could buff the shit out of nax and it’s still going to be a cake walk. Not even a question. The mechanics are the only check in that raid and they are all piss easy. PISS easy.

  18. #78
    Buffing WotLK Naxx will be fine. You're overreacting and over exaggerating.

  19. #79
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Oh look, Battlebeard is complaining about things being made marginally more difficult again, what a shock.

    All teasing aside, I'm certain it will still be pretty dang easy. If you were able to PUG Black Temple, you'll be able to PUG this, don't worry.

  20. #80
    naxx 10 man was so easy that me as a 13 year old kid could raid lead and clear it with a pug. blizzard buffing it a bit wont do much since it still will be easy, probably around kharazan levels of difficulty.

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