Right now Dragonflight is the most boring expansion ever.

[Super Kami Dende]

If the queue is less than around 40 or so, it's not a real queue, it's just delayed logins as an anti-DDOS mechanic. Even the empty servers have a 10-20 person "queue".

lmao ok kiddo.

[erifwodahs]

I dont need a garbage azerite or conduitcovenant system to enjoy the game. I need stuff to do that isn't running the same 8 dungeons for 2½ years. While trying to math out the correct way to utilize garbage like domination sockets, azerite or renown levels.

To be fair, if covenants got released in this current form - that would have been great. But hey, it's not like they could have known...!

[Zodiark]

The first statement is from the systems lead saying "if you are worried about the game while my colleagues get outed as predators then you are the problem"
The second is about the cache in BfA from devs on Twitter saying since it was changed in the ass end of testing that players can't complain
The ML change was justified by saying players felt too pressured to refuse trading
The blue post about the Covenant lock being removed said "the restrictions we had in place helped you experience the world of SL in a unique way"
The last is a dev on Twitter that claimed asmongold bullies devs into silence

None is hearsay because it's all been public

But the closest to hearsay would be in the theory crafting chat when the devs called the players the peanut gallery or how when the testers pointed out the Monk tank didn't work how the dev said it would the dev started being condescending and explained it in a way that it didn't make sense still.

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I highly doubt that anyone beyond the top 50 will swap for trash. The choice isn't interesting and doesn't make the system better but it just shows that the option exists

I imagine some classes like rogues will follow the dk example and the interrupt will be essentially there all the time

The tomes though...my scribe will love it

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Lol yes because the interrupt on shriekwing is the same as a diabetic not taking insulin

Yes I agree some of those things were said in public forums like Twitter, etc. But that's why I made the comment in the way that I did. I said either hearsay or taken out of context, to cover some of the different situations. Bottom line is that the developers are just people too. They say things that sometimes reflect their frustrations rather than an accurate statement about something. We as players are the customers and are expected to just talk out of our asses about issues with the game we perceive as problematic or not fair/fun, etc. However developers are basically representing the whole company. Which is why when a few of them speak out of turn like the players do, then people such as yourself or others are quick to make the case that blizzard developers don't care or are arrogant, or whatever other pejorative statement you want to insert.

However as players and people in general, we should be a little less quick to judge ourselves. I'm sure there are many people working at Blizzard who genuinely care about the product they are delivering. Which goes with the old saying, don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

My biggest issue with Blizzard and their games has been the poor narrative choices and decisions to not make a central storyline to tie up the main plot points of the game. If you really think about it, WoW is basically a giant theme park game with a bunch of zones that are inhabited by NPC's with little problems that they recruit the players to solve via quests they dole out. After you do enough of these little chores that each give you a little feel for the world at large, your funneled into whatever raid is currently relevant and basically pushed into a hastily thrown together scenario which is supposed to justify the expansion. Then when the expansions lifespan is over with, everything basically becomes irrelevant that you previously have done. This methodology basically creates obsolete content that is just "leveling fodder", instead of an engaging narrative.

Games like FFXIV do this part very well. Each time you re-visit an old zone, or area, you are reminded of the various storylines you went through that took you to where you are now. In WoW, going through old zones you just remember various chores you did, or mobs you killed. For the non-raider types they never even get to see the cutscenes that are supposed to tie up loose ends, unless they search for them outside of the game. WoW has had a few larger cutscenes that are made more public, but for the average player just running about questing from zone to zone, many of these moments are wasted on them.

Bottom line, I'm sure there are some developers who care and some that don't as much, who to them this is just a job. That's life. For me the biggest sin of the development of WoW though is the overall game design to not tell a more cohesive storyline. Not the snarky comments some frustrated employee of blizzard makes on forums or social media.

[Revamp Man]

Yes I agree some of those things were said in public forums like Twitter, etc. But that's why I made the comment in the way that I did. I said either hearsay or taken out of context, to cover some of the different situations. Bottom line is that the developers are just people too. They say things that sometimes reflect their frustrations rather than an accurate statement about something. We as players are the customers and are expected to just talk out of our asses about issues with the game we perceive as problematic or not fair/fun, etc. However developers are basically representing the whole company. Which is why when a few of them speak out of turn like the players do, then people such as yourself or others are quick to make the case that blizzard developers don't care or are arrogant, or whatever other pejorative statement you want to insert.

However as players and people in general, we should be a little less quick to judge ourselves. I'm sure there are many people working at Blizzard who genuinely care about the product they are delivering. Which goes with the old saying, don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

My biggest issue with Blizzard and their games has been the poor narrative choices and decisions to not make a central storyline to tie up the main plot points of the game. If you really think about it, WoW is basically a giant theme park game with a bunch of zones that are inhabited by NPC's with little problems that they recruit the players to solve via quests they dole out. After you do enough of these little chores that each give you a little feel for the world at large, your funneled into whatever raid is currently relevant and basically pushed into a hastily thrown together scenario which is supposed to justify the expansion. Then when the expansions lifespan is over with, everything basically becomes irrelevant that you previously have done. This methodology basically creates obsolete content that is just "leveling fodder", instead of an engaging narrative.

Games like FFXIV do this part very well. Each time you re-visit an old zone, or area, you are reminded of the various storylines you went through that took you to where you are now. In WoW, going through old zones you just remember various chores you did, or mobs you killed. For the non-raider types they never even get to see the cutscenes that are supposed to tie up loose ends, unless they search for them outside of the game. WoW has had a few larger cutscenes that are made more public, but for the average player just running about questing from zone to zone, many of these moments are wasted on them.

Bottom line, I'm sure there are some developers who care and some that don't as much, who to them this is just a job. That's life. For me the biggest sin of the development of WoW though is the overall game design to not tell a more cohesive storyline. Not the snarky comments some frustrated employee of blizzard makes on forums or social media.

Some devs do care
Sadly a majority of the ones we hear about are the ones that say the things I listed

Personally my favorite is the blue that soent days telling players how TF isn't going anywhere and if we didn't like it then we were just elitists who didn't want anyone else to have high gear even though people explained the issues with the system

They provide a product and a service and if a customer points out a problem with the product and the devs response is to do all the things I pointed out then it could be just them getting upset but when it's a pattern I think it's just them being crap at the job which might be a factor in one of those devs getting moved from the WoW team to the hearthstone team but that is just coming from someone he referred to as the peanut gallery

[dragonflight10]

95% of you complaining that there is nothing excited about DF will play regardless and put up some excuse for yourself to start playing it.
news for no one will care or judge you if you play.

It's good to be comfortable with who you are and your likes/dislikes

[Kaykay]

To be fair, if covenants got released in this current form - that would have been great. But hey, it's not like they could have known...!

Nah, covenants are still super convoluted, the 60 renown boost helps, but it's still unnecesarily complex for what it provides.
The covenants could have been storylines and rep factions like previous expansions, and the abilities could have been split across two new talent tree rows.

Conduits should have been passives or more talent rows aswell.

no need for conduits or conduit power.

The base classes have been stripped to the bone, and the only way to flesh out their rotation has been borrowed power, they didnt have to wait till dragonflight to make things baseline.

[Nyel]

95% of you complaining that there is nothing excited about DF will play regardless and put up some excuse for yourself to start playing it.

Yes, they'll play. Because the first weeks of an expansion are always fun.

But: Dragonflight will have absolutely no longevity. No character progression at max level. No new content feature at max level (like Torghast, IE or whatever). The moment the majority realizes all they do at max level is try to get better gear while everything stays exactly the same (for the first time in 6 years), they'll quit. Because playing just to get 5 item levels more on the exact same item is terrible and outdated.

[Kaykay]

No new content feature at max level (like Torghast, IE or whatever). The moment the majority realizes all they do at max level is try to get better gear while everything stays exactly the same (for the first time in 6 years), they'll quit..

Didn't they sort of announce some torghast'ish systems with caverns of time and such? i swear i heard that in an interview. It wont give you legendaries in the same way as shadowlands, but since vanilla and tbc, being able to farm systems for offpieces, fancy trinkets or enchants could be enough incentive to play.

[Cheezits]

Yes, they'll play. Because the first weeks of an expansion are always fun.

But: Dragonflight will have absolutely no longevity. No character progression at max level. No new content feature at max level (like Torghast, IE or whatever). The moment the majority realizes all they do at max level is try to get better gear while everything stays exactly the same (for the first time in 6 years), they'll quit. Because playing just to get 5 item levels more on the exact same item is terrible and outdated.

They will play until the gated storylines are over, just like every recent patch. MMO ELDER GOD YoshiP says you're not supposed to live on an MMO.

[Nyel]

Didn't they sort of announce some torghast'ish systems with caverns of time and such? i swear i heard that in an interview. It wont give you legendaries in the same way as shadowlands, but since vanilla and tbc, being able to farm systems for offpieces, fancy trinkets or enchants could be enough incentive to play.

Not that I remember? At least it wasn't mentioned as a feature so it won't be anything like that.

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They will play until the gated storylines are over, just like every recent patch. MMO ELDER GOD YoshiP says you're not supposed to live on an MMO.

I think maxing out artifact weapons, Azerite or Covenants was a motivation for many players. In Dragonflight none of this exists. You earn your last talent point at 60 and then your character will be the exact same for two years, besides the mentioned itemlevel upgrades. Does that sound like fun or a fun incentive?

[Gorsameth]

I think maxing out artifact weapons, Azerite or Covenants was a motivation for many players. In Dragonflight none of this exists. You earn your last talent point at 60 and then your character will be the exact same for two years, besides the mentioned itemlevel upgrades. Does that sound like fun or a fun incentive?

It was enough from the original release until Legion.

I think the game will be fine....

[Cheezits]

I think maxing out artifact weapons, Azerite or Covenants was a motivation for many players. In Dragonflight none of this exists. You earn your last talent point at 60 and then your character will be the exact same for two years, besides the mentioned itemlevel upgrades. Does that sound like fun or a fun incentive?

People hated Azerite and Covenants are gated timewise. The renown reputations are said to act the same way the covenants did, so yeah.

Reputations built over time, cosmetic rewards. But there WILL be an "end" to the content.

[Nyel]

It was enough from the original release until Legion.

I think the game will be fine....

It was enough until then, but players got bored in WoD pretty quickly too. Lack of content, I know, but that wasn't the only issue. In Legion, BfA and Shadowlands we've been spoilt with rewards and progression outside of just better gear.

I don't think the game will be fine in that regard and I am absolutely convinced that within the first week(s) players will complain about the lack of incentives at max level. You can't have this borrowed power extreme for 6 years and then go to the exact opposite where you have nothing of that anymore.

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But there WILL be an "end" to the content.

Nobody denied that. But there won't be end game progression. That's the difference.

[Cheezits]

Nobody denied that. But there won't be end game progression. That's the difference.

People care less and less about the gameplay in WoW, the desire is pretty adamantly changing towards cosmetics and questlines. Which is what the endgame "progression" will be.

Your character has a max ilvl you can get (mythic) but if you don't want to do that, then you play until the main story quests and renown quests are complete.

People don't want to keep improving their character, they get burnt out. But they DO constantly want stuff to do.

[Myela]

I do agree with people saying that Dragonflight sounds more like a giant patch than a new expansion, which tbh my concern is that they just added 10 more levels, brought the soulbinds system in as a talent tree system, made it sound new and shiny but in reality its just the same old stuff, Dragon Riding is agreeably, pointless and frankly you'd be better just adding flying itself at launch with dragon riding being some new system built around that but instead they want dragon riding to feel like Illidari gliding with elivation which isnt really that exciting save you can "Fly" which okay, but, why not just make it possible to fly permanently?

After that you have the flaw of making the entire expansion around dragons which dragons in general in wow have been sort of exhausted to death. Cata and Legion/Shadowlands had a strong theme around dragons and honestly more dragon expansions just feels uninspired.

To me, it feels like just like previous expansions with no origionality with WoD being TBC 2.0 and Shadowlands being WOTLK 2.0 this feels like MoP 2.0

Its an attempt to play into "Discover something you've heard about for years but never got to explore" We had that in BFA and honestly, it didnt really work out.

So heres how they have to fix that to make it un-pessimistic.

- We need more, we need allied races not just Dracthyr and we need unlockable content at end game that isnt just raiding or dungeons.
- More general pve content less overall end game revolving around the previous two mentioned, if they wanna make it feel interesting again, make reputations in the zones feel interesting, add story to them, give us reason to care.
- Respect previous characters journies and actually give them satisfying conclusions, the moment I heard they mentioned Wrathion will be with us but "Might not" be leading the Black Dragonflight I immediatley facepalmed knowing they obviously plan to introduce a new char "better suited" to it which is just annoying fan-fic writing. Wrathion needs his moment, let him be the big cheese.
- Dont be afraid to kill chars either, chars like Alexstraza, Chromie, Nozdormu, Kalec etc, dont be afraid to take some risks to make things more interesting with the plot, the story is at its best when they dont hold back.
- Dont, make, a jailor themed antagonist, we dont need some elaborate char with a master plan thats revealed 3 patches later, give us an antagonist with clear motives but more ambigious patch content on how they intend to get to them, and if you wanna make them layered, do it the Emet-Selch way in FFXIV, not the Jailor/Sylvanas way which no one gave a damn about.
- Player housing, is a priority, people wanted it for this expansion, they need to add it by the end of it at most, because people wanted content that actually made them feel like there was something for them to do.

Prime example of someone just disagreeing with everything Blizzard will ever put out just because.

[Ielenia]

This thread is about **what we've been shown so far** !!
Do you really think that Blizzard has any more "big thing" to show us besides what we already know?? If Blizzard had anything else relevant to announce they would have done it already.

We still don't know about:
• Quests...
• Factions...
• Story...
• BBEG...
• Most of the customization for dracthyr...
• 99% of the evoker's class talents and skills...
• How the current classes will feel in the new expansion...
• Reward structure...
• Dungeons...
• Raid(s)...
• Armor sets (leveling gear and otherwise)...
• How dragonriding actually works...
• etc, etc...

So, yeah. Making any declarations about how "boring" an expansion is based on how little we know is a bit... well, wrong, to say the least.

[Niwes]

to be honest: maybe DF, based on all other things besides the new class, may be good (things the previous poster listed).

but what we can say for sure, with regards to actual player numbers and the „wow situation“ its definitely not the „make wow great again“ xpac, wow would need at this point. regatten how good or straight it is, it is not a Legion‘esque „here we go again“ xpac, including hype and marketing wise.

to me DF feels like a dumpster fire xpac, a rather default, cost effective, „nothing special“, filler xpac. at best it’s a BfA/SL 3.0 imo. but nonetheless how bad or good it is overall, it’s obvious that this xpac is not here to „make wow great again“.

imo.

[Soeroah]

Genuinely, I'd love another expansion that I feel I can afford to take days off from to play other games or just go do legacy content for collections.

A 'boring' expansion might be the most fun I've had with the game in several.

[Hoodzilla]

Not excited at all, nothing shown makes me want to resub. What would it take to get me to come back? Challenge dungeons like Mop and WoD, 10 man mythic raids, Challenging open world content(pvp and pve). A story with characters I actually give a **** about, ie bad ass Orcs, Trolls or Tauren.

[Soikona]

We still don't know about:
• Quests...
• Factions...
• Story...
• BBEG...
• Most of the customization for dracthyr...
• 99% of the evoker's class talents and skills...
• How the current classes will feel in the new expansion...
• Reward structure...
• Dungeons...
• Raid(s)...
• Armor sets (leveling gear and otherwise)...
• How dragonriding actually works...
• etc, etc...

So, yeah. Making any declarations about how "boring" an expansion is based on how little we know is a bit... well, wrong, to say the least.

I would disagree. It’s the company’s responsibility to build hype, and they have failed to do that. Saying something looks boring, based on what is given is a fault of the company, not us.