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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and you know that from the plethora of info we got?
    tell us lotery numbers for next week while you are at it...
    Yes I do and I already mentioned why I think that is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    The game will be much better because there will be no Torghasts, island expeditions, warfronts, or any other boring-ass god forsaken crap that was shoved down our throats for years.

    You act like these modes saved end-game, when people avoided them all like the plague lol.
    We need to make a difference between unliked systems and their grind and what came with them. People will miss some kind of max level progression / borrowed power. Players will be bored to death if this is really everything we have for max level, aka dungeons and raids. If there is no progression like Covenants with Conduits or Artifacts with Legendaries etc., people will just quit because there's no motivation. No hamster wheel, which many hate, but was what made the game entertaining in the long run.

    Imaging being back to a time where you play at max level and get nothing for it (besides itemlevels). That concept was outdated 8 years ago already, it won't work in 2022.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why does that matter that other games have similar features? Do features not count unless they're 100% original that no developer ever created in every way shape or form?
    I mean... it's a 100% copy of Guild Wars 2 system. There's zero originality. It's not like they took that system and changed it, they copied it. Heck, even the animations - of what we have seen now - are exactly the same as in Guild Wars 2.
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  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    terrible idea, it would either be overtuned and nobody would run it, or it would be far easier than 20m (just pure logistics of half the people would do so) so it would make 20m obsolete (not to mention it would fuck up rosters as more tanks would be needed unless lots of people are just fine with warming the bench)...
    and no, its literaly impossible to make both 10m and 20m exactly the same difficulty, and 20m fits raid much better, i wouldnt actualy mind mythic being for MORE people, but 20 seems as good spot
    If nobody would run 20 man, what does that tell you about how fun it is?

  3. #323
    Bloodsail Admiral Catastrophy349's Avatar
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    I’ll play both sides:

    Pros: What they showed “so far” (imo) looks fun and interesting. I’ve read/watched every interview (not sure if everyone here has) and there’s going to be quite a lot of content to do.

    Cons: On the flip-side to Nyel’s point, if you look ONLY at the Dragonflight announcement video/website, it’s very “light” in comparison to the past few expansions. HOWEVER, this could be a good thing since while there was a lot to do in BFA/SL (and even Legion, too), a lot of people disliked the systems/content.
    Last edited by Catastrophy349; 2022-07-06 at 08:46 PM.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    We need to make a difference between unliked systems and their grind and what came with them. People will miss some kind of max level progression / borrowed power.
    I think what's important here is that people specifically didn't like borrowed power, but NOT the existence of endgame systems per se.

    Now granted, a lot of the time those systems pretty much equated borrowed power, but that's not a requirement. Especially with horizontal progression systems, you can totally have endgame "grinds" that don't directly raise your power level, and don't constitute borrowed power. WoW has traditionally been rather bad at those kinds of systems, and reluctant to have any in the first place - WoW is a carrot-on-a-stick treadmill (with the carrot being character power), and without that carrot they don't really know what to do. But that doesn't mean the carrot is the only option. Cucumbers or celery would work, too, if properly implemented

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Imaging being back to a time where you play at max level and get nothing for it (besides itemlevels). That concept was outdated 8 years ago already, it won't work in 2022.
    .
    The concept was outdated, yet classic wow has routinely shat on retail since it's inception? They weren't outdated it's just that these shit systems were always forced upon the players year after year, expac after expac.

    I mean god forbid people like playing alts without a laundry list of chores to do first..

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Yeah.. Same with WoD actually. The hype was huge at that reveal, we all know how that went..

    Tbh, if DF doesnt have shit grinding systems it might just be fine. Ofc it should have activites across the board, but mandatory grinds for the sake of it is SO tiersome. Especially when you get it xpac after xpac.

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    What sucks is that everytime Blizzard tries something new, it often times goes bad and they just deside to abandon it. Garrisons, Warfronts, Island Expeditions.. All of these features had major issues yes, but could have been tuned/changed for the better. Tbh IE wasnt that bad, problem was that ppl grinded it for AP all day everyday. IE could have been a nice added feature in each xpac. Maybe WF too... Imagine a big Warfront in Maldraxxus, that would have been cool.

    But no, Blizzard just toss it in the bin and does one of two things after it;
    1. Find a new feature only to throw that too in the bin.
    2. Removes it and add nothing in new xpac.
    ^^ This is my biggest frustration.

    There are lots of could be super cool things in wow that just needed more time in the oven, more development and more work.

    Garrisons, Island Adventures, hell even Torghast could have been salvaged and revamped and retooled after learning what players want.

    Instead of building on the foundation these systems provided, they just get tossed into the scrap heap and Blizz tries to do something entirely new that ends up being half baked and now they have to spend the entire expansion trying to make it work.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and its been like that since vanila, they just got better at grabing money...
    why the hell some people like to pretend "old wow" was some charity project or whatnot is beyond my comprehension, its purpose (as with virtualy every retail product or every business in existence) always was to make money

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    yeah, started early this time, usualy they wait untill beta

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    and you know that from the plethora of info we got?
    tell us lotery numbers for next week while you are at it...
    totally agree to your first sentence. and that’s why i said that. as you realized by yourself: they got better at grabbing money. which had influences on the game and it’s design.

  8. #328
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I mean... it's a 100% copy of Guild Wars 2 system. There's zero originality. It's not like they took that system and changed it, they copied it. Heck, even the animations - of what we have seen now - are exactly the same as in Guild Wars 2.
    Really?! A "100% copy with zero originality"?

    Tell me, how does the rest of the expansion looks, since you're playing a secret live, complete version of it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  9. #329
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    That's precisely why people are saying it looks boring lol, every other expansion reveal had a lot more meat on the bone
    So in other words judging a book by its cover

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Why does that matter that other games have similar features? Do features not count unless they're 100% original that no developer ever created in every way shape or form?
    It's okay if Blizzard starts copying GW2. In fact, it would be EXCELLENT if Blizz copied GW2 in many ways. Like Dye System, for example.
    The problem is Blizzard is announcing this as something NEW and Revolutionary in the middle of 2022. lol

    you're wrong, as I've shown a lot of stuff that is just as important, some maybe even more so. Especially the dungeons and raids, IMO.
    My dude there is ZERO news in wow dungeons and raids. This is just content for a new patch and not something we should be hyped about... because "oh my god!! we will have dungeons and raises in DragonFlop!!"

  11. #331
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    The problem is Blizzard is announcing this as something NEW and Revolutionary in the middle of 2022. lol
    Except it is new, and it is revolutionary for WoW. Not every game/expansion announcement has to shake the foundations of gaming everywhere, you know?

    My dude there is ZERO news in wow dungeons and raids.
    Yeah. Which is exactly my point: they didn't announce the dungeons and raids, and those are big things in WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except it is new, and it is revolutionary for WoW. Not every game/expansion announcement has to shake the foundations of gaming everywhere, you know?


    Yeah. Which is exactly my point: they didn't announce the dungeons and raids, and those are big things in WoW.
    the only thing we know about the raid is the final bosses are the primal dragons
    im wondering if the s4 loot experiments are going to stay for DF

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Yes, they'll play. Because the first weeks of an expansion are always fun.

    But: Dragonflight will have absolutely no longevity. No character progression at max level. No new content feature at max level (like Torghast, IE or whatever). The moment the majority realizes all they do at max level is try to get better gear while everything stays exactly the same (for the first time in 6 years), they'll quit. Because playing just to get 5 item levels more on the exact same item is terrible and outdated.
    Sadly alot of players asked for that, no character progression other than gear

  14. #334
    Herald of the Titans
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    Some people see DF as the returnn back to "simple" formula, but to me its just Blizzard selling their laziness for higher expnasion prices.

    New talent tree is glorified "We bring back old spells" Shadowlands PR stunt.
    Dragon Race/Class stuff is lazy as its only bond to one race, which no one asked for and look pretty lame.
    Dragonriding is half-an hour of entertainment feature, aka War Front/Islands/Torghast flavor of the month.
    Little ampunt of dungeons.
    None of locations look like it was never done before. I.e. are visually boring.

    In essence its a nothingburger sold for more expensive thanprevious expansions. Blizzard are lazy and greedy as always.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Little ampunt of dungeons.
    ah yes, so few dungeons, only 8 compared to SL when we got... 8... or wod which had 8...
    or pandaria which had 9, but 2 of them were reworked old ones, same for cata
    legion and bfa had 10 on release - 2 had to be unlocked in each case, but were available on release technicaly speaking, so they had more

    but ... is it "so much more"? not really... wrath is only expansion that had "so much more" - 12 at release, but it had more than any other, so thats not standard thats outlier...
    seems like if we dont count reworked dungeons (which we shouldnt, unless we count 4 "old" m+ for DF) 8 is more or less average, rather tahn "little amount"...

    (BTW i refuse to count tbc, it had more dungeons but basicaly it felt like single dungeon cut in parts)

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Really?! A "100% copy with zero originality"?

    Tell me, how does the rest of the expansion looks, since you're playing a secret live, complete version of it?
    Have you read and understood what I wrote in my original comment? "Of what we have seen now" is the important part. That Blizzard seems to have an information embargo doesn't help with that sentiment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonflight10 View Post
    Sadly alot of players asked for that, no character progression other than gear
    And they'll complain the minute they reach max level. I'm already calling it.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-07-07 at 08:50 AM.
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  17. #337
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    ah yes, so few dungeons, only 8 compared to SL when we got... 8... or wod which had 8...
    Dragonflight has 4 new dungeons. Which is abysmally low and lazy amount.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Dragonflight has 4 new dungeons. Which is abysmally low and lazy amount.
    No, it has 8 new dungeons in total. But only 4 are available in Mythic difficulty at the beginning plus 4 old dungeons. And then it'll rotate.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  19. #339
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Have you read and understood what I wrote in my original comment? "Of what we have seen now" is the important part. That Blizzard seems to have an information embargo doesn't help with that sentiment.
    Except you're making absolute statements. If you say something is "one hundred percent a copy", you're making an absolute statement regarding the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I think what's important here is that people specifically didn't like borrowed power, but NOT the existence of endgame systems per se.

    Now granted, a lot of the time those systems pretty much equated borrowed power, but that's not a requirement. Especially with horizontal progression systems, you can totally have endgame "grinds" that don't directly raise your power level, and don't constitute borrowed power. WoW has traditionally been rather bad at those kinds of systems, and reluctant to have any in the first place - WoW is a carrot-on-a-stick treadmill (with the carrot being character power), and without that carrot they don't really know what to do. But that doesn't mean the carrot is the only option. Cucumbers or celery would work, too, if properly implemented
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