Right now Dragonflight is the most boring expansion ever.

[mr2t]

Agreed! I agree with Blizzard going back to the talent tree system, but there is little to nothing different being included in these talent trees. It is literally the same abilities that each class has had since Legion just put into a talent tree. I was looking for these talent trees to add new abilities that would create excitement for each class. Unfortunately we are getting the same classes that we have played since legion, and frankly I am tired of playing the same classes with the exact same rotations. Not that anyone gives a crap, but this may very well be the first expansion that I do not purchase, and I have been playing since Vanilla. Sad times.

About sums it up. Do I really want to play a mix of BFA/SL class design? Fuck no.

[Revamp Man]

About sums it up. Do I really want to play a mix of BFA/SL class design? Fuck no.

eh my monk gets a fun mix of things like old legion stuff and a mix of legendaries and talents we couldnt mix before
legion style ToD on a 1min cd that cleaves to 4 other targets

[LazarusLong]

About sums it up. Do I really want to play a mix of BFA/SL class design? Fuck no.

Shaman looks great to me, will play it.

[Rawrajishxc]

I think they're going a big mistake with not going forward with Torghast-like content. Just don't make it mandatory, add some toys/skins/tabards and a a few mounts for the deep divers of that content. Make it in caverns of time so that they can make maps based in any region/world/time with any type of enemy they want.

A lot of people hated Torghast so It's really no surprise at all. It's probably not worth putting time and resources into a previous expansions feature while moving on to a new expansion.

[Alroxas]

From what has been shown so far... what did you like about Dragonflight?
And you? Are you excited about DragonFlight? Why?

No borrowed power systems. I mean who really REALLY wants to grind for another AP?

[Atriel]

I think they're going a big mistake with not going forward with Torghast-like content. Just don't make it mandatory, add some toys/skins/tabards and a a few mounts for the deep divers of that content. Make it in caverns of time so that they can make maps based in any region/world/time with any type of enemy they want.

They can add this type of content in subsequent patches if necessary. Mage Tower and Visions were only added very late into their expansions. Torghast was the only odd one in that it started with the expansion launch, and then wasn't ever really built upon after.

I think it's a great plan for them to put out the expansion, establish the story and ease people into it with the raids and questing and then in the next big content patch, add something fun and replayable. It seems like they may already have the framework with some sort of time-oriented system playing through various notable moments in Warcraft history.

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No borrowed power systems. I mean who really REALLY wants to grind for another AP?

I was personally fine with Legion Artifacts, and it was nice when they increased AP amounts later. They were by far the least intrusive. The issue is that Blizzard has kept adding more and more of these systems on top of one another. You had Azerite gear then Horrific gear, then you had Covenant Powers, Anima, Soulbinds, Various other currencies. That is what makes it a slog.

[jeezusisacasual]

No borrowed power systems. I mean who really REALLY wants to grind for another AP?

I rather enjoyed having something to always log on a do to improve player power. Now the game is get KSM and stop sub until next M+ season and repeat, where as before in BFA and Legion i was always grinding AP just to push more damage as a small daily goal. This patch lasted 2.5 weeks which would have lasted longer if i had a infinite power growth to grind. I also hate raiding and generally only talk to 3-5 people and do not play any other MMO's excluding FF14.

[Alroxas]

I rather enjoyed having something to always log on a do to improve player power.

So now you want Borrowed Power? After so many players have complained that they don't want borrowed power (and Blizzard listening), you now want them to go back to it?

[Atriel]

So now you want Borrowed Power? After so many players have complained that they don't want borrowed power (and Blizzard listening), you now want them to go back to it?

Just because so many players complained doesn't mean EVERYONE complained, why are you asking as if it's some egregious notion that people actually liked that aspect of the game?

[jeezusisacasual]

So now you want Borrowed Power? After so many players have complained that they don't want borrowed power (and Blizzard listening), you now want them to go back to it?

I mean tier sets are barrowed power but i want reasons to compel me to log in daily. I despise raiding and everything it stands for so for me its KSM as my end game goal, i want things to keep me subbed for longer then 3 weeks etc. For instance using valor to purchase your BIS etc, deterministic rewards. Cap Valor on a weekly basis with a cap, buy your 301 items from a vender etc, to have a goal to work towards. I also loved the barrowed power systems since i pick a new spec and class every patch.

[hulkgor]

I very rarely like the added 'bells and whistles' they come up with each expansion.

BFA had Island Expeditions which were bad, and Warfronts were absolutely horrible. I would actually consider them a massive waste of time and resources, which could have been used for extra dungeons or an extra raid. Or more of just about anything else.

Shadowlands wasn't as bad in that regard. Torghast was actually fun at times, and Covenants are actually very good after they got rid of the weird limitations at the early patches.

A very vocal part of the community also keeps raging about borrowed powers, extra systems, and all that jazz, so it makes sense they're giving it a go without those. I just wish that all the extra time and resources they usually spend on all that crap would give us another raid tier, or more than 8 dungeons at launch, which doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well

[tomten]

They're doing so little/nothing to try to revitalize the game in terms of the social aspect, so no hype from me.
Bring back proper servers with no cross-realm/phasing shenanigans please.

This will never happen and thank god for that.
They're going in the complete opposite direction, no faction limit, no server limit, no limits.
Cross realm, cross faction guilds incoming, which will be great and probably the biggest thing they could ever do to revitalize the game in terms of social aspects

[Alroxas]

Just because so many players complained doesn't mean EVERYONE complained, why are you asking as if it's some egregious notion that people actually liked that aspect of the game?

The majority of players complained to the point where we actually see the change being implemented in DF. No more borrowed power systems that are sunset at the end of the expansion.

But at the same time, by removing that incremental (temporary) power gain, it does mean that overall there is less reason to stay in WoW. WoW does not need to be your "the only game I play" kind of game. You can log in, do the stuff you want to do then leave to do other things, play other games. This is what the majority of players wanted, a game that respects your time.

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I mean tier sets are barrowed power but i want reasons to compel me to log in daily.

Pretty sure those will still exists but there just won't be any player power associated with them. From the alpha previews, we see there are plenty of renown factions that you can work with to get mostly cosmetic items.

If you want to invest the extra time, then feel free to do so. But the rest of us would like to not have to be tied down to a stupid grind like Artifact Power/Azerite Power where if we don't do the minimum then we fall behind in player power.

And like I said, it's very likely there are some systems (specifically tied to Dragon Riding) that will be gated enough so that you feel compelled to log in at least weekly to "upgrade" it.

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Covenants are actually very good after they got rid of the weird limitations at the early patches.

However that change meant that keeping up with the meta involves you switching back and forth covenants based on content you're doing. Oh I'm raiding Tuesday, let me switch to Venthyr. Oh we're now doing some M+, let me switch over to Nightfae.

The original limitations of Covenants meant that you couldn't switch back and forth... Pick the one you want to stick with and let the permanence of the choice to make it meaningful.

Put it this way, because there is now a zero cost (well mostly zero), a competitive player who doesn't switch is actually penalizing the group for their choice. Whereas prior to the change, you made the best case you can with whichever choice you made.

I just wish that all the extra time and resources they usually spend on all that crap would give us another raid tier, or more than 8 dungeons at launch, which doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well

They are literally redesigning talent trees for 36 specs. If that isn't a herculean task, what is then? And remember at least 2 classes (Monks and DHs) don't have an older talent tree from classic that they can build from.

[Kallor]

This will never happen and thank god for that.
They're going in the complete opposite direction, no faction limit, no server limit, no limits.
Cross realm, cross faction guilds incoming, which will be great and probably the biggest thing they could ever do to revitalize the game in terms of social aspects

If the latter happens I'll be pleasantly surprised and will probably play the game. I have a sneaking feeling it's the wrong direction though, and that most people will still just play the game solo-style, hunting mounts, transmog and achievements like robots who treat the game as a mindless job.

[Stickiler]

And like I said, it's very likely there are some systems (specifically tied to Dragon Riding) that will be gated enough so that you feel compelled to log in at least weekly to "upgrade" it.

At the current point in time on the Alpha, you can upgrade Dragon Riding to the maximum it goes, on the first day.

[Berkilak]

Put it this way, because there is now a zero cost (well mostly zero), a competitive player who doesn't switch is actually penalizing the group for their choice. Whereas prior to the change, you made the best case you can with whichever choice you made.

Except, functionally, it wasn't meaningful because the rest of the game is not designed to give that choice meaning. Locked in with a choice that benefits one type of content and not another, but wish to do both? Love the aesthetic style of a certain Covenant, but the numbers are trash? You are feeling bad about whatever decision you make, one way or the other.

And for the record... I chose the Covenant that I preferred aesthetically, but it was the worst performer numerically for content I participated in. How did this "meaningful" choice affect me? Well, I simply stopped playing for the vast majority of the expansion. I was literally kicked out of PUGs for "trolling." I made the wrong choice. Straight up. If we say that a system allows for a million ways to play, but 999,999 of those ways aren't competitive, you functionally only have a single way to play. And the system may as well not exist at all.

And I'm one of the diehards who actually came back. God knows how many others left, perhaps forever, because of this particular straw.

[tomten]

If the latter happens I'll be pleasantly surprised and will probably play the game. I have a sneaking feeling it's the wrong direction though, and that most people will still just play the game solo-style, hunting mounts, transmog and achievements like robots who treat the game as a mindless job.

They have already removed faction limits for instanced content. Ion has also announced cross faction, cross realm guilds are coming 100%.

[Yriel]

They are literally redesigning talent trees for 36 specs. If that isn't a herculean task, what is then? And remember at least 2 classes (Monks and DHs) don't have an older talent tree from classic that they can build from.

Herculean task? Lots of laughter.
I bet there are many nerds out there who make up their own version of skill trees for fun all the time. And it's not even really difficult since there is next to no innovation present. As you said, they just build it from the classic trees and put some abilities here and there. Add some testing if everyone can get everything they want them to have with their available points and voilá, you are finished.
I can't think of a more easy task then that, some intern can perfectly do that. Blizz just acts as if they are splitting the atom.

[Alroxas]

As you said, they just build it from the classic trees and put some abilities here and there. Add some testing if everyone can get everything they want them to have with their available points and voilá, you are finished.

Sure if the classes existed back in Classic then it might be easier but not all classes were (such as DH and Monk). Moreover some classes have dramatically changed which makes it more difficult to use older trees as templates. Outlaw spec for rogues replaced Combat spec. Demonology Warlocks were much different pre-Legion than post (thanks to DH).

Additionally, if talent tree design was so easy that "an intern" could do it, why are we still seeing changes being made? Just yesterday (8/31) Blizzard devs announced the rework of Priest talent trees - adding new talents that weren't there before. Who knows how much more changes we'll see down the line before everything settles down.

And this is all still Alpha... We haven't even seen any kind of high level testing in group content (M+, PvP, Raid). Unintended interactions/synergies may cause even more changes before we get the final versions.

And lastly, do you really want the level of quality "an intern" throws together on such a core revamp? Or do you want devs to truly work on the system to make it as good as they can?

Considering that there aren't more development in other areas (that we've seen), I would hope that these talent revamp has a lot of production-development hours invested to be really polished.

[Goatfish]

And be at a huge disadvantage from everyone else who does read about everything before launch.

It's really not that big of a disadvantage. Besides, I'd rather enjoy new experiences and be surprised at things. If it takes me one more pull to kill a boss because something caught me off guard, that's a good thing. Maybe I'm just insane, but the best feeling in a video game is being surprised by something and then overcoming it anyway.

Maybe it's just how I grew up. I didn't have guides or the internet for video games, so I learned through experimentation and repetition. There is a time and place for looking for help, and I just feel like going straight to help without trying to figure it out yourself is just... sad.

I enjoy it so much that I'm willing to ignore any release information dealing with quests, zones, features, dungeons, or raids just so I can view them as freshly as possible. Really all I allow myself time on is talent trees, new abilities, and profession information so I can prepare myself mechanically to handle whatever experiences may present themselves. I'll have plenty of time to fine tune later.