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  1. #781
    Talent trees are fun, but there's going to come a point where it's back to just copying whatever the meta build is because of the way the game's rewards structure works. I want rival for the PvP sets and the build I enjoy most isn't deemed the best? I'm not getting into groups, even with high experience. Same with M+ and same with raids.
    So that "content" is pretty meh to me outside alts I don't do group content with. Any sense of creativity or fun does not work with this playerbase's attitude towards things.

    Dragon Flying is fun though, but when XIV offers housing, better crafting, and now the island sanctuary?
    It's hard to justify as somebody who just isn't interested in raids anymore, and M+ can only go so far. PvP needs a complete overhaul at this point.
    I want world content, but ... it's just barely there compared to other games. They're trying to catch up, but mentalities towards the game make it hard for that to happen.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlokh View Post
    Guild Wars 2 released on Steam yesterday, and I thought "let's give it a try" while Shadowlands downtime is setting in. Just the free version is miles ahead of anything WoW came up with for the past 3 expansions. And then I saw you have real mounts, with different skills, no reskinned shit that you press W to go to point A to B. And then I saw dragon riding in dragonflight, it's just another quest minigame where you press 1,2,3. At this point I don't know if it's engine technical limits, or just lazy uninspired design, and at this point I don't really care. Not going back to WoW
    You really can't compare the mount systems at all. GW2 does mounts way way way better. When you realize that WoWs Dragonriding is a cheap copy of GW2 flying, it only becomes worse. Dragonriding really is the most uninspired feature they've given us yet as it's a ripoff of a way better feature from their competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    BINGO, I totally agree, the talent tree offers nothing that looks fun to explore, it's just the same abilities thrown together in an uninspired way. The current developers are creatively bankrupt and are just rearranging chairs on the Titanic.
    I mean the talent trees consist of 95% existing stuff that was either baseline or already existed as a talent. Now they removed the baseline stuff and made it talents. FUN! It's pruning, just in another form.

    The talent trees, while ultimately great in the long run, are incredibly uninspired as of now as there's nothing new. Classes will play mostly the same as in Shadowlands while getting nothing new, players will be sick and tired of playing the exact same spec for 6 years in a row (since Legion did the major reworks).
    ______

    The Dragon Isles (beautiful, breathtaking continent) and (Preservation) Evoker are the only things that seem to be fantastic and keep me hooked for the expansion, most of the other stuff is just lame and boring and so is the entire premise of the expansion.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-08-25 at 01:50 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  3. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by Groundwalker View Post
    Agreed! I agree with Blizzard going back to the talent tree system, but there is little to nothing different being included in these talent trees. It is literally the same abilities that each class has had since Legion just put into a talent tree. I was looking for these talent trees to add new abilities that would create excitement for each class. Unfortunately we are getting the same classes that we have played since legion, and frankly I am tired of playing the same classes with the exact same rotations. Not that anyone gives a crap, but this may very well be the first expansion that I do not purchase, and I have been playing since Vanilla. Sad times.
    About sums it up. Do I really want to play a mix of BFA/SL class design? Fuck no.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by mr2t View Post
    About sums it up. Do I really want to play a mix of BFA/SL class design? Fuck no.
    eh my monk gets a fun mix of things like old legion stuff and a mix of legendaries and talents we couldnt mix before
    legion style ToD on a 1min cd that cleaves to 4 other targets

  5. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by mr2t View Post
    About sums it up. Do I really want to play a mix of BFA/SL class design? Fuck no.
    Shaman looks great to me, will play it.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by Durlot View Post
    I think they're going a big mistake with not going forward with Torghast-like content. Just don't make it mandatory, add some toys/skins/tabards and a a few mounts for the deep divers of that content. Make it in caverns of time so that they can make maps based in any region/world/time with any type of enemy they want.
    A lot of people hated Torghast so It's really no surprise at all. It's probably not worth putting time and resources into a previous expansions feature while moving on to a new expansion.

  7. #787
    Warchief Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    From what has been shown so far... what did you like about Dragonflight?
    And you? Are you excited about DragonFlight? Why?
    No borrowed power systems. I mean who really REALLY wants to grind for another AP?
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  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by Durlot View Post
    I think they're going a big mistake with not going forward with Torghast-like content. Just don't make it mandatory, add some toys/skins/tabards and a a few mounts for the deep divers of that content. Make it in caverns of time so that they can make maps based in any region/world/time with any type of enemy they want.
    They can add this type of content in subsequent patches if necessary. Mage Tower and Visions were only added very late into their expansions. Torghast was the only odd one in that it started with the expansion launch, and then wasn't ever really built upon after.

    I think it's a great plan for them to put out the expansion, establish the story and ease people into it with the raids and questing and then in the next big content patch, add something fun and replayable. It seems like they may already have the framework with some sort of time-oriented system playing through various notable moments in Warcraft history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    No borrowed power systems. I mean who really REALLY wants to grind for another AP?
    I was personally fine with Legion Artifacts, and it was nice when they increased AP amounts later. They were by far the least intrusive. The issue is that Blizzard has kept adding more and more of these systems on top of one another. You had Azerite gear then Horrific gear, then you had Covenant Powers, Anima, Soulbinds, Various other currencies. That is what makes it a slog.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    No borrowed power systems. I mean who really REALLY wants to grind for another AP?
    I rather enjoyed having something to always log on a do to improve player power. Now the game is get KSM and stop sub until next M+ season and repeat, where as before in BFA and Legion i was always grinding AP just to push more damage as a small daily goal. This patch lasted 2.5 weeks which would have lasted longer if i had a infinite power growth to grind. I also hate raiding and generally only talk to 3-5 people and do not play any other MMO's excluding FF14.

  10. #790
    Warchief Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    I rather enjoyed having something to always log on a do to improve player power.
    So now you want Borrowed Power? After so many players have complained that they don't want borrowed power (and Blizzard listening), you now want them to go back to it?
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  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    So now you want Borrowed Power? After so many players have complained that they don't want borrowed power (and Blizzard listening), you now want them to go back to it?
    Just because so many players complained doesn't mean EVERYONE complained, why are you asking as if it's some egregious notion that people actually liked that aspect of the game?

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    So now you want Borrowed Power? After so many players have complained that they don't want borrowed power (and Blizzard listening), you now want them to go back to it?
    I mean tier sets are barrowed power but i want reasons to compel me to log in daily. I despise raiding and everything it stands for so for me its KSM as my end game goal, i want things to keep me subbed for longer then 3 weeks etc. For instance using valor to purchase your BIS etc, deterministic rewards. Cap Valor on a weekly basis with a cap, buy your 301 items from a vender etc, to have a goal to work towards. I also loved the barrowed power systems since i pick a new spec and class every patch.

  13. #793
    I very rarely like the added 'bells and whistles' they come up with each expansion.

    BFA had Island Expeditions which were bad, and Warfronts were absolutely horrible. I would actually consider them a massive waste of time and resources, which could have been used for extra dungeons or an extra raid. Or more of just about anything else.

    Shadowlands wasn't as bad in that regard. Torghast was actually fun at times, and Covenants are actually very good after they got rid of the weird limitations at the early patches.

    A very vocal part of the community also keeps raging about borrowed powers, extra systems, and all that jazz, so it makes sense they're giving it a go without those. I just wish that all the extra time and resources they usually spend on all that crap would give us another raid tier, or more than 8 dungeons at launch, which doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallor View Post
    They're doing so little/nothing to try to revitalize the game in terms of the social aspect, so no hype from me.
    Bring back proper servers with no cross-realm/phasing shenanigans please.
    This will never happen and thank god for that.
    They're going in the complete opposite direction, no faction limit, no server limit, no limits.
    Cross realm, cross faction guilds incoming, which will be great and probably the biggest thing they could ever do to revitalize the game in terms of social aspects

  15. #795
    Talent trees look more like an experiment tbh so more abilities can come in later on if things work well enough

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    Dragonriding is fun and peak. Hope Blizzard doesn't change anything with it before launch.

    Tho...I would ask for less lag loool

  16. #796
    Warchief Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atriel View Post
    Just because so many players complained doesn't mean EVERYONE complained, why are you asking as if it's some egregious notion that people actually liked that aspect of the game?
    The majority of players complained to the point where we actually see the change being implemented in DF. No more borrowed power systems that are sunset at the end of the expansion.

    But at the same time, by removing that incremental (temporary) power gain, it does mean that overall there is less reason to stay in WoW. WoW does not need to be your "the only game I play" kind of game. You can log in, do the stuff you want to do then leave to do other things, play other games. This is what the majority of players wanted, a game that respects your time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    I mean tier sets are barrowed power but i want reasons to compel me to log in daily.
    Pretty sure those will still exists but there just won't be any player power associated with them. From the alpha previews, we see there are plenty of renown factions that you can work with to get mostly cosmetic items.

    If you want to invest the extra time, then feel free to do so. But the rest of us would like to not have to be tied down to a stupid grind like Artifact Power/Azerite Power where if we don't do the minimum then we fall behind in player power.

    And like I said, it's very likely there are some systems (specifically tied to Dragon Riding) that will be gated enough so that you feel compelled to log in at least weekly to "upgrade" it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Covenants are actually very good after they got rid of the weird limitations at the early patches.
    However that change meant that keeping up with the meta involves you switching back and forth covenants based on content you're doing. Oh I'm raiding Tuesday, let me switch to Venthyr. Oh we're now doing some M+, let me switch over to Nightfae.

    The original limitations of Covenants meant that you couldn't switch back and forth... Pick the one you want to stick with and let the permanence of the choice to make it meaningful.

    Put it this way, because there is now a zero cost (well mostly zero), a competitive player who doesn't switch is actually penalizing the group for their choice. Whereas prior to the change, you made the best case you can with whichever choice you made.

    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    I just wish that all the extra time and resources they usually spend on all that crap would give us another raid tier, or more than 8 dungeons at launch, which doesn't seem to be the case. Oh well
    They are literally redesigning talent trees for 36 specs. If that isn't a herculean task, what is then? And remember at least 2 classes (Monks and DHs) don't have an older talent tree from classic that they can build from.
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  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    This will never happen and thank god for that.
    They're going in the complete opposite direction, no faction limit, no server limit, no limits.
    Cross realm, cross faction guilds incoming, which will be great and probably the biggest thing they could ever do to revitalize the game in terms of social aspects
    If the latter happens I'll be pleasantly surprised and will probably play the game. I have a sneaking feeling it's the wrong direction though, and that most people will still just play the game solo-style, hunting mounts, transmog and achievements like robots who treat the game as a mindless job.

  18. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    And like I said, it's very likely there are some systems (specifically tied to Dragon Riding) that will be gated enough so that you feel compelled to log in at least weekly to "upgrade" it.
    At the current point in time on the Alpha, you can upgrade Dragon Riding to the maximum it goes, on the first day.

  19. #799
    Stood in the Fire Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Put it this way, because there is now a zero cost (well mostly zero), a competitive player who doesn't switch is actually penalizing the group for their choice. Whereas prior to the change, you made the best case you can with whichever choice you made.
    Except, functionally, it wasn't meaningful because the rest of the game is not designed to give that choice meaning. Locked in with a choice that benefits one type of content and not another, but wish to do both? Love the aesthetic style of a certain Covenant, but the numbers are trash? You are feeling bad about whatever decision you make, one way or the other.

    And for the record... I chose the Covenant that I preferred aesthetically, but it was the worst performer numerically for content I participated in. How did this "meaningful" choice affect me? Well, I simply stopped playing for the vast majority of the expansion. I was literally kicked out of PUGs for "trolling." I made the wrong choice. Straight up. If we say that a system allows for a million ways to play, but 999,999 of those ways aren't competitive, you functionally only have a single way to play. And the system may as well not exist at all.

    And I'm one of the diehards who actually came back. God knows how many others left, perhaps forever, because of this particular straw.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallor View Post
    If the latter happens I'll be pleasantly surprised and will probably play the game. I have a sneaking feeling it's the wrong direction though, and that most people will still just play the game solo-style, hunting mounts, transmog and achievements like robots who treat the game as a mindless job.
    They have already removed faction limits for instanced content. Ion has also announced cross faction, cross realm guilds are coming 100%.

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