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  1. #821
    Warchief Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    but their paragon system has a general level where when you are below the server level you can easier catch up while people who are way above it only get a fraction of the let's say paragon experience.
    Isn't this the Renown system that we have in SL and is being carried forward in DF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    There's nothing bad giving people a way to increase their power through a system like this
    Except for the percentage of the player base that min/maxes the crap out of every system. Didn't an entire raid team switch factions (to Alliance) because the Warfront reward was giving a higher than expected ilv piece? And to be fair, Blizzard's catchup systems are generous in the level of loot they provide. However the trade off is that it will take much longer for a "casual" player to achieve a high-ish level of gear than more invested players.


    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Just make it permanent, not a temporary thing that gets removed in the next expansion,
    But now you're mandating player run older content to get to current content. Let's say that Heart of Azeroth was still relevant today in SL. For a new (or returning) player, you would need to say to them: Want to join us in SL? Well first you need to go back to BFA and do XYZ questlines to unlock/acquire/empower Heart of Azeroth, then you can join us in SL but only after you spend some time (can be shortened) grind to get your HoA up to "acceptable" levels to join us.

    How many players (new or returning) would want to go through that? The extra steps can be a barrier of entry that some would find frustrating or boring.


    And it wouldn't stop there too, now in addition to PuGs listing "must have Xk r.io score" they'll add "must have HoA level 100+" or "must be paragon 1k+" to their silly requirements.
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  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    But now you're mandating player run older content to get to current content. Let's say that Heart of Azeroth was still relevant today in SL. For a new (or returning) player, you would need to say to them: Want to join us in SL? Well first you need to go back to BFA and do XYZ questlines to unlock/acquire/empower Heart of Azeroth, then you can join us in SL but only after you spend some time (can be shortened) grind to get your HoA up to "acceptable" levels to join us.
    Not really, this can be easily solved. Add a questline that allows the Heart of Azeroth to fuse with our Spellbook. Then you gain a Glyph tab, similar how the Heart of azeroth in 8.2 worked. Similar to the Heart of Azeroth, you gain 1 Major Power, and 3 Minor ones. You keep all the old Hearth of Azeroth abilities that you had, but also gain all abilities from the old expansions too. In the same questline, you get back to all your old abilities (or for new players you meet them for the first time) to allow them to empower your Heart of Azeroth with their abilities from the Artifact Weapon Shadowland Convenants and hey, maybe even add the garrison abilitiy as an Essece. They can be expanded with other Essences that drop in current raids as additional fun stuff. And in the future, new borrowed power abilities will be added with this system too.

    With a system like this (or some better one that took someone more than 15 minutes to think off), they still can add new systems without making them totally borrowed power, because in the next expansion, you get the essence for it. And as a little bonus, make people who played in the last expansion gain an Epic Essence or Legendary Essence (for those who nearly maxed everything out) with better visuals, just like we had with the Heart of Azeroth.

    Because honestly: nobody will be missing some 10% damage gain on x stuff when you critically hit with ability y when this is gone in the next expansion, because this is what we have with gear since vanilla. But for example shadowlands abilities, or Artifact Power or even some Hearth of Azeroth abilities, that's something totally different.

    And with a 1 big, 3 small essence system we had in BfA, there is also no issue to balance the powers with each other, because you only can equip one at a time. And to make it easier to swap around, they change with the new dragonflight talent profile system too.
    Last edited by Velerios; 2022-09-10 at 12:53 PM.

  3. #823
    I disagree whole heartedly

  4. #824
    I'll wait a bit before getting this expansion after I was burned on the last two

    I'm expecting a rose tinted launch experience that will wear off and show it's true colors after a few months (just like the last two).

  5. #825
    Boggles my brain that there isn't an ingame-features trailer for this product yet. Where's the hype marketing at all?

    Wrath Classic ads have gotten my attention far more. They made a new trailer just to re-hype DKs

  6. #826
    Warchief Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Because honestly: nobody will be missing some 10% damage gain on x stuff when you critically hit with ability y when this is gone in the next expansion, because this is what we have with gear since vanilla. But for example shadowlands abilities, or Artifact Power or even some Hearth of Azeroth abilities, that's something totally different.
    Nobody except those asinine PuG group leaders that have outrageous requirements to join their group.

    But I think it would be safe to say that if the bonus conferred by these older power systems are significant (i.e. More than 5% player power) then players will farm them up regardless of the grind. The nature of wow playerbase is truly one that min/maxes even if it isn't "fun"

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    Quote Originally Posted by elderu View Post
    Boggles my brain that there isn't an ingame-features trailer for this product yet. Where's the hype marketing at all?

    Wrath Classic ads have gotten my attention far more. They made a new trailer just to re-hype DKs
    Wrath Classic is on pre-patch and launching in a few hours (at the time of posting this). We still don't have a release date for Dragonflight. Maybe when we're 2 weeks out from the pre-patch THEN you'll see the marketing arm do more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosteye View Post
    I'll wait a bit before getting this expansion after I was burned on the last two

    I'm expecting a rose tinted launch experience that will wear off and show it's true colors after a few months (just like the last two).
    At the very least, the pre-patch (system overhaul) is now up on the PTR for everyone to try. I'd recommend players go and check that out with the new talent tree.

    One thing of note is that you won't be at full strength (compared to live) because you'll be missing some talent points that you earn from level 61 to 70.
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  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Nobody except those asinine PuG group leaders that have outrageous requirements to join their group.

    But I think it would be safe to say that if the bonus conferred by these older power systems are significant (i.e. More than 5% player power) then players will farm them up regardless of the grind. The nature of wow playerbase is truly one that min/maxes even if it isn't "fun"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wrath Classic is on pre-patch and launching in a few hours (at the time of posting this). We still don't have a release date for Dragonflight. Maybe when we're 2 weeks out from the pre-patch THEN you'll see the marketing arm do more.

    - - - Updated - - -



    At the very least, the pre-patch (system overhaul) is now up on the PTR for everyone to try. I'd recommend players go and check that out with the new talent tree.

    One thing of note is that you won't be at full strength (compared to live) because you'll be missing some talent points that you earn from level 61 to 70.
    pugs are nuts youll see day 1 pugs for vaults requiring something like CE jailer or something
    i expect a features trailer by the end of the month probably launching around the survival guide for the prepatch

    i cant wait for my monk to get the new talent treatment (yeah theres only like 3 actual new talents but getting to smash all these things together is amazing)

  8. #828
    I simply cannot understand how people of all things are advocating for Borrowed Power... like seriously, even Titanforging is better than Borrowed Power.

    Look at the success of Classic and the absence of Borrowed Power there, Borrowed Power does more harm than good.

    Ask for anything, but please don't ask for Borrowed Power. I beg you!

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Borrowed Power system was the worst system ever implemented in this game.
    Back to Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms!

  9. #829
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Isn't this the Renown system that we have in SL and is being carried forward in DF?
    no, renonw in dragonflight is basically just an update to rep, its not weekly time gated, or give player power or buffs or stuff.

  10. #830
    I'm kind of glad I got access to the beta it will save me 60 bucks to be honest.
    It is very boring indeed, it feels like playing a new patch.

    Apart from the new class (that feels unfinnished), it's just a revamp of existing systems:
    - class revamp: I tried 3 classes, nothing new, just adding things from the past to choose between. However, you do get the feeling to play with a strong char from the beginning, which is a good point.
    - flying with the dragon, well it's just flying with a twist (you go up and then down, instead of going straight ), except you are forced to fly with a special mount, it's kind of frustrating, but you do get to fly very early for sure
    - profession, well its profession you know so you craft things lol, nothing new here
    - dungeons, same mechanism, nothing new here it's just a set of new dungeon
    - rep is replaced with renown so nothing new here
    - you can pimp your drake, amazing right?
    - no news regarding loot philisophy so I guess we are good for 2 more years of stupid RNG until blizzard realizes nobody is playing anymore
    - maybe raid will be good but will be certainly the same thing we have since 16 years...

    The new zones are amazing, and some players are gona love the expac just because of that. When you take the main hub and compare it to Oriblos, you kind of feel bad for SL . But art team always delivers so nothing new here I would.

    One guy said it very well in another thread, if you are on the fence and hesitate to buy, wait until 10.1 to actually see where this expac is going, guarantee you won't miss anything from release. It's as bad as BFA or DF, no innovation from that side. Long unskippable dialogue quests, like prepare to be on netflix while leveling...
    Let's hope you don't have to do it on alts lol.

    The whole expac feels like Blizzard is afraid of trying new stuff and taking risk (which is understandable when thinking about BFA and DF). Or maybe the talents are working on another game or for another studio. But it really feels like old same old same so if you are looking for a new expac that will blow your mind with crazy new features, nope, you won't like it xD
    Last edited by Labambaprincess; 2022-09-23 at 12:33 PM.

  11. #831
    I'm excited because for me the worst thing about BFA/SL was all the bloat.

    Torghast, Covenants, The Maw, Expeditions, Warfronts etc. etc. I never found any of these things exciting, just wasted content.

    Dragonflight seems to be going back go basics, they are trying to make the game great not just bloat us out with boring, repetive content and busy work. That's what excites me.

  12. #832
    This is the first time ever where I am not super hyped about an expansion, but I will still definitely play it.

    Dragonriding looks super cool and it will definitely be an interesting gimmick for a good while.
    Crafting looks OK, better than before and the new talent trees are kinda cool, but overall almost every class plays more or less the same as always.

    However outside of that it is basically more of the exact same stuff we've seen recently. If you have enjoyed SL then you may enjoy DF basically, but those that didn't like SL or BfA won't like this expansion either (which is most people). There has been virtually no innovation to endgame content and to the leveling experience (this one's just as bad as SL).

    Unless they have a release cycle of content like we've seen in Legion and there is a constant flow of content, I'd say that it will be a good expansion. However as soon as people get into a routine they'll notice how it's almost the same as SL.

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitsu View Post
    I'm excited because for me the worst thing about BFA/SL was all the bloat.

    Torghast, Covenants, The Maw, Expeditions, Warfronts etc. etc. I never found any of these things exciting, just wasted content.

    Dragonflight seems to be going back go basics, they are trying to make the game great not just bloat us out with boring, repetive content and busy work. That's what excites me.
    These were very exciting features when announced actually, but their execution and implementation in game was awfull.
    I don't know if you have access to the beta, but you gona "going arround in circle" quite fast in DF, unless something big is revealed before december or added in 10.1
    It's the problem with going back to basics, it becomes very boring very fast.

    Torghast, Covenants, The Maw, Expeditions, Warfronts etc. etc. would have been great features if Blizzard cared to listen to feedback...
    But it's another subject I hope you'll find entertainment in DF my friend
    Last edited by Labambaprincess; 2022-09-26 at 11:59 AM.

  14. #834
    I'm actually unusually excited for a wow expansion, but that's because i only do 2 things in wow: random battlegrounds and ganking people in the open world. So the game systems updates are very good as far as I'm concerned (new talent system that won't require me to grind covenant bullshit to unlock talents conduits and will give me my beloved gouge back after all these years, pvp gear that will put everyone on a largely equal footing in BGs (modulo PvE trinkets probably bc blizzard gonna blizzard), solo rated queue to get conquest points, i love all of this)

    But I do see how the theme and world building isn't very appealing (but then again I haven't really been appealed by any of that since probably pandaria). I just hope there will still be enough people around in the open world.
    Last edited by ClownPrincess; 2022-09-23 at 03:40 PM.

  15. #835
    Azerite/Artifact power is just as bad as not having those. Asking blizzard to design overarching power progression system that doesnt suck is too much, so we are left with do raid/m+/pvp or log off. Its not bad, but personally I liked having something to grind inbetween content.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Azerite/Artifact power is just as bad as not having those.
    Remember how popular and successful the game was before Legion, when those stupid things didn't exist? Remember the collective sigh of relief when they neutered the AP grind in Legion? (and the utter disbelief when they put it back in BfA)

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Azerite/Artifact power is just as bad as not having those. Asking blizzard to design overarching power progression system that doesnt suck is too much, so we are left with do raid/m+/pvp or log off. Its not bad, but personally I liked having something to grind inbetween content.
    Go grind reputation, or mounts, or pets, or toys, or anything not power related.
    World of Warcraft: Shadowblands
    Diablo Bore.

  18. #838
    We're way into the managing decline phase. We're going to see basically more of the same until the game dies.

  19. #839
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmahaffe View Post
    Go grind reputation, or mounts, or pets, or toys, or anything not power related.
    Thats it tho - grinding it was fun for me, because it offered power. Meant you can spreadsheet that schedule hard and optimize your play and gain power all the time. It shouldnt be considered impossible to have an overarching system to gain power which is also fun.

  20. #840
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    We're way into the managing decline phase. We're going to see basically more of the same until the game dies.
    If wrath esc design is “managed decline” then hopefully they never come out of said decline because it’s the best wow has ever had.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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