Right now Dragonflight is the most boring expansion ever.

[Lei]

Mop has the challenge mode phoenixies and Wod had the archimound moose both disappear.

Cata and tbc were the only expans without such things.

Oh, right, I totally forgot about those. Thanks.
But at least you had the whole expansion to get the phoenixes, and you had to do them once, and you were done. Now you have to play seasonally, and play at a higher standard. If we agree that mop challenge modes were easier than a 15 key, that is.
I think the word "seasonally" and "fomo" goes hand in hand.

[Aucald]

My main issue is that while theyre aiming for a TBC or WotLK feel.

They dont want to give player more gearing options like TBC and WotLK had. Which I think is going to end up a major miss step.

We'll have to see about that score, I suppose. DF has a number of avenues for gearing I've seen thus far, but whether or not they'll open that up further remains to be seen.

[Lolites]

What is this supposed to mean lol

i would also wonder how did he manage do calculate that since we dont have sub count, and we dont know how much was spend on mtx...

[Mojo03]

i would also wonder how did he manage do calculate that since we dont have sub count, and we dont know how much was spend on mtx...

Sure, it's simple.

LOTR trilogy adjusted for inflation costs $480 million.

A conservative sub count of 2 million people over 16 months is 15 x 2 million x 16 months = $480 million

This does NOT include shop mounts, pets, services, WOW tokens, etc, which would actually increase the total by dramatically more, but we don't know those numbers.

There is also the factor of people buying sub months in bulk for less than $15, which you could safely say this addition revenue above more than makes up the difference.

Simple math.

[jeezusisacasual]

Why on earth would they gamble a make or break on a billion dollar revenue??? That doesn't make sense, like at all lol...
And having raiding as a lobby? What? You have looking for raid if you dont want to commit to something serious and plenty of normal guilds that dont care.
You have the option but you want mythic gear right? Just like everyone else

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Wow is not for everyone and people (such as yourself) also grow out of it.
Its ok to let it go and play something else. I did for 3 expansions, felt great.
But for someone thats old old? This expansion is perfect. It's back to basics, the talent trees (bit depending on class) are just amazing and fun. Dragon riding is one of the best features since TBC introducing flying mounts. The dungeons are on point as always. Raid testing has been super fun on beta. They're overhauling and making professions matter again and there is no forced grind of any real sort, no borrow power system, the catalyst is staying for making tier sets so thats already good, the first tier are super basic, which again, is really nice as to not convolute the talent system on launch.
So, its like back in the day, you login because you want to play, because you enjoy wow and/or the social aspect of it.
No more "ughh, i have to login and do torghast or w/e because its reset in 2 days".
There's also no heroic week and straight into raiding...

The zones are beyond beautiful and amazing... I dunno... People always love to complain but DF looks really solid and what people have asked for lol....

Perhaps i did not say it clearly, WoW is a MMO in name only and does not operate as one nor has it since the world is largely ignored after the initial pop. I did get mythic gear from the whole 2 weeks i was active for getting KSM. I do not raid, i could and have plenty of cutting edge achievements to back it up but the difference is i do not enjoy it any longer and would end up muting half of the people i found annoying for starters, then it comes down to having to schedule raiding like its a beer league sporting event which again i love the aspect of pick up and play of Mythic plus that gives me almost as good gear ( i give zero shits about a few item levels ) and i quit once i get KSM done since its the only goal i have.

I treat MMO's like i do every other genre like LoL i can pick up and play, Call of Duty same thing, Street Fighter again same thing. I also play FF14 alot which gives me a nice end point when i get all the badge gear without having to stick to the annoying bits like scheduling time around a video game now if WoW gave me that same chance i might last longer then 1 month ( only the first season of Shadowlands had me last longer to get KSM ). Once everything gets the same attention and care as raiding perhaps WoW will grow its playerbase but let's hope FF14 steals the fantastic mythic plus system because competition forces people to change right?

A valor system that allows you to buy gear would set a nice expiration date for WoW content which would be welcomed by most i would like to think excluding those who think that everyone must gear chase as i do not like luck based systems in general and avoid them if at all possible.

[Cormanthyr]

A tinker class, what do you think Engineering is, you can bring back the subset of classes from Class and make a tinker subset, just like when they have goblin and gnome engineering. what they should bring back is the bullets, you make ammo for enhanced damage based on the ammo made, standard ammo is okay, but how about making something more explosive, or more refined, the hunter's weapon should come with slot for ammo, and when it runs out, goes back to standard ammo, until you make more.

a new class of ranger, you don't even know what a dark ranger is, just a normal hunter to me with Camo abilities if we want to go by the D&D definition of the Ranger Class.

Every new expansion brings excitement over what it'll bring to the table if only for just that expansion, but i notice that the fandom is very fickle, to them everything sucks, so why bother playing, I play for the fun of it, not because i want it to be perfect. I remember a guy who when he finally bowled a 300, he stopped playing, when i asked him 'Why, you're a great player' his reply was, 'I reached the summit, there's nothing to left to conquer.' same thing will happen to these players, they find the perfect game, and they'll quit. enjoy the game, and leave the criticism, and fickleness at the door, games are meant to be enjoyed.

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did you calculate how much money they make from selling the expansion as well in the mix.

[Osmeric]

A conservative sub count of 2 million people over 16 months is 15 x 2 million x 16 months = $480 million

Does Blizzard earn $15/month from China subs?

[Toppy]

We'll have to see about that score, I suppose. DF has a number of avenues for gearing I've seen thus far, but whether or not they'll open that up further remains to be seen.

What options are those? For getting gear above heroic dungeon level.

[Aucald]

What options are those? For getting gear above heroic dungeon level.

There's a repeatable quest at Valdrakken to get 4000 Renown points across all the Renown factions, which ends in a chest that drops some nice gear. Rare/World drop rates also seem to have increased, as in the Beta I've gotten two nice World drops thus far, whereas in Shadowlands I think I got one throughout the entire expansion (this could, of course, be down to RNG). The new Renown system has a lot of nice pieces at max Renown itself, as well; and who knows what else when we can explore the true end-game content.

Professions also seem to be able to create some nice competitive pieces, especially with the new tier/upgrade system all the item-creation professions seem to have.

[RobertMugabe]

After playing Wotlk again now for a couple of weeks, I have to say that if Dragonflight is anything like Wotlk, it will be the best expansion in many years.

Wotlk is such an awesome expansion, because the classes are very strong and fun to play, all the content is VERY easy and thus actually enjoyable with pugs, but can be made challenging for added reward (less people = more loot, doing achivements for mounts and titles etc.). And of course all of the content is accessible, there are no bullshit grinds or systems you have to deal with or are required to look up youtube videos or wowhead to understand anything. Everything is straight to the point and simple.

Leveling alts has never felt this good too in such a long time, because the game isn't "making" you play your main all the time and catching up with alts is super straight forward and easy too.

It's a very chill expansion where you can actually have fun (lol) without having any FOMO. And when you run out goals or content for yourself, you can do it all over again with alts and doing it again with alts is actually something you look forward too, because it never felt like a job and was fun all the way through.

[ClownPrincess]

They could have added something like glyphs or other kind of added power that does NOT get removed next expansion (rather than being replaced, think of the Heart of Azeroth Essences), something that is not tied to a specific place and add complexity to the game. AS LONG AS IT ISN'T BORROWED POWER.

You mean, like, talent trees?

[bloodmoth13]

Wrong, i never heard: i want a boring game, what i always heard is: i don't want BORROWED POWER!

They could have added something like glyphs or other kind of added power that does NOT get removed next expansion (rather than being replaced, think of the Heart of Azeroth Essences), something that is not tied to a specific place and add complexity to the game. AS LONG AS IT ISN'T BORROWED POWER.

So no, the issue was always BORROWED POWER, NOT COMPLEXITY!

I would love to see a new glyph system with the same interface as Essences, where you can get Major and Minor powers like the Heart of Azeroth and it's essences. And in the next expansion this can get expanded and the different minor and major powers replaced because they don't scale with level. As long as it is changeable through the interface and not a table at the end of the world, there is nothing against it, as long as the system does not get removed in the next expansion. The powers can get replaced as long as they do not get removed, but simply replaced with more powerful ones.

There are tons of ways to make the game less boring and more complex. Nearly no one wanted to have something boring, what people wanted was simply NO MORE BORROWED POWERS!

The new talent system is all the new complexity needed. We don't need more clutter, the new talent system is basically the best of glyphs, old talents, new talents, azerite, artifacts and everything else put together. Some specs aren't living up to their potential and there is room for improvement but we really don't need glyphs, conduits, artifacts, azerite etc etc on top of this.

You just want ui screens, what those systems added weren't so unique they can't be added to the talent system.
Also PvP talents is pretty much identical to major glyphs for what it's worth, and major glyphs were pretty much only changed out between PvP and pve.
Minor glyphs still exist but aren't restricted to 3 so it is strictly better.

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You mean, like, talent trees?

Damnit you not only beat me you said it much more concisely.

[Kellorion]

dragon flying and dracthyr should have been combined from the get

let us dracthyr just fly, no cd, no limited time just an animation and fly, like a dragon

the fact that dragon riding is just 'here is a proto dragon, we have a bunch for some reason idk, take it, fly, whatever.....'

serious lack of some obivious customization for dracthyr is glaring, like;

• none of the main dragonflights color as secondary tone
• no teeth show from muzzle
• no wing customization (leafy, hard rock, magic runes, flames of life trails)
• no netherwing, stone or storm cata dragons, no stormheim storm dragons show (despite Odyn lore being added)

no showing plans for Wrathion to explain where the hell he was during Legion, cause it was his fault

old dragon mounts not gfx upgrade, some of them are literally for vanilla beta, 20 years folks

no dragonmaw skin for orcs

C'MON most of this is simple ass shit

[enigma77]

The problem comes with giving any alternative power gains that are not raiding since the raiding populace would force their members to partake in it regardless if they enjoy it or no

so fuck them? who cares about those people, non raiders need shit to do

dragonflight will be warlords of draenor 2

Legion was the best expansion ever made precisely because it took a massive dump on the heads of raidloggers

let me repeat that again, fuck raidloggers

[Aresk]

Legion was the best expansion ever made precisely because it took a massive dump on the heads of raidloggers

And anyone who played more than one spec. Legion was terrible in terms of maintaining character power. I really pity anyone who played more than one spec on more than one character.

[jeezusisacasual]

so fuck them? who cares about those people, non raiders need shit to do

dragonflight will be warlords of draenor 2

Legion was the best expansion ever made precisely because it took a massive dump on the heads of raidloggers

let me repeat that again, fuck raidloggers

i agree with you since i am very much against the idea of raiding in general but given who runs the game i doubt it.

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And anyone who played more than one spec. Legion was terrible in terms of maintaining character power. I really pity anyone who played more than one spec on more than one character.

The idea is to have something to always work towards not be done and dusted after very minor input. I also swapped toons every patch then like i do now and just came to terms with being 2-3% behind.

[Luck4]

The greatest problem with WoW nowadays is the same that HOTS had, and it has nothing to do with Borrowed Power or new features, but rather because it's a team-based game, without a team/friends/guilds it's nearly impossible to have any enjoyment playing this game.

Meanwhile, most of the game industry (since the beginning) is mostly based on solo progression, single-player adventures, and solo matchmaking for multiplayer activities.

Blizzard is aware of that and that's why we have LFG/LFR, so much stuff in the World compared to older expansions, and solo-shuffle in PVP, but WoW is an MMORPG and its content ends shortly if people wanna experience it only once, there's no way around it.

Long story short, WoW today is a game for the very small percentage of the gaming community that still likes to depend on others to achieve something.

[Le Conceptuel]

It seems like the bulk of this thread amounts to "NOOOO the precise thing I, and only I, want has not been added!"

[Mysterymask]

Does Blizzard earn $15/month from China subs?

...its actually a bit more I think last thing I remember they charge China by the hour

last article I found on it shows they charge about $5 American for 2700 Minutes...which is a little under 2 days

so to play wow for a month in China blizz is actually making $75 a month per Chinese player assuming they play continuously for a month.

[Velerios]

You mean, like, talent trees?

Nope, and you know it; at level cap, people copy&paste the thing they read in a guide from icy veins or whatever and move on. But as shitty as the whole soulbind-table is, at least there was something to do. And that's not a bad thing, to have more things that you can farm, because we have far not enough gear slots. The issue of borrowed power was always the borrowed part, not that you could have an alternative power progression; something that is NOT tied to level.

The issue of it was as said that it was 1.) Tied to a specific location and not baked in the default UI and 2.) the Borrowed Part. In the end everything that is in wow is borrowed: Gear is also borrowed power, still nobody complains about it; and as long as it is not borrowed but later phased out, there is nothing against an alternative power progression; just don't make it borrowed.

Back to basic, finally no more borrowed power, we have talent trees now is the same utterly stupid bull**** people posted back then when they are screaming "no changes" for wow classic and then people wanted actually changes for it.

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It seems like the bulk of this thread amount to "NOOOO the precise thing I, and only I, want has not been added!"

And the other bulk screams: "NOOOO, i don't want that they add this thing because I and only I don't want it".