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  1. #21
    I never did much pvp other than wintergrasp in wotlk. i think the only worry is how often VoA will be open for people on the losing side of an imbalanced server.

  2. #22
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    since I played a lot of ret paladin PVP I guess I cannot really complain lol

    With that said being a Paladin was the most fun I had in PVP during WotLK
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-06-28 at 02:44 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Paladins OP? That's why i'm playing lol

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by giantspider View Post

    no, that started to be a thing since cataclysm and its like this for like 6 expansions in a row,u play healer u are god

    Are you sure? I seem to recall WotLK being the immortal healer start. Heals were huge numbers in Wrath, due to their design philosophy at the time that healer mana was practically infinite so they tried to counter in raids by having boss hits do huge spiking values, which of course made their heals huge in pvp. Also I'm fairly positive that Wrath was the expansion that the MS effect got nerfed to 25% down from 50% for every class except Warriors whose titular ability remained at 50%.So infinite mana + Huge spikey heals and the heal reducing effect was nerfed meant healers walked around as gods.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Yeah, this is indeed very true.

    I remember Holy Paladins, near immortal :S gonna be a mess
    Funny how majority of the teams still had some form of a priest in the roster. RMP was strong. Paladins had to hug pillars.
    -K

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuba View Post
    wrath in season 8 was the golden age of wow pvp, everyone was exceptionally strong(healers and DPS alike)
    I don't know man, BC Season 3 Vengeful Gladiator was pretty amazing as a Disc priest. I miss that Reflective Shield, 45% of all damage back at the attacker.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    actually wotlk was the golden area lmao
    na cata or mop were far better,but wrath was pretty close

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    Yeah dude you totally got me and everything I said is a lie now. Maybe up your IQ and stop using fallacies (red herring, appeal to ridicule) to try (and fail) to make an argument.

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    I believe Vanilla was a much better pvp expansion.
    So continue playing vanilla classic and dont play wrath. Problem avoided?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinraye View Post
    I agree that wotlk is where healers starting to get very hard to kill in a 1v1 situation and I wish that wasn't the case. I even remember googling back in the day which classes can kill a healer in 1v1. It is really an effect of Blizzard focusing balancing on 3v3 rather than 2v2. 2v2 was considered back in TBC e.g. you can get gladiator from 2v2 in TBC but not Wotlk. I do wish they kept healers on the squishier side, i.e. not too easy to kill, but killable if left unguarded like in TBC. Immortal/hard to kill healers in 1v1, world pvp, random bgs, is definitely not fun. I'd rather they throw an instanced healer buff in 3v3, 5v5 and ranked BGs, but otherwise kept them squishy in 2v2, normal bgs and world pvp.

    Other than that I think the variety of viable classes and specs looks much better in wotlk than tbc. A lot of classes/specs are a lot more mature and fun to play. That said, to keep things from being stale the entire expansion, I do wish they introduced class balancing with each phase to spice things up and not make it so predictable i.e. start as it was in 3.3.5. and then do small balance changes in phase 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.
    I read the first sentence of this only and decided to reply.

    If were being honest, there is absolutely NO reason that a dps class SHOULD be able to kill a healer 1v1. Its a healer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    Yeah no, everybody can go to a live pserver and see for themselves, the typical red herring fallacy and outright lie about how paladins and dks were fine after some nerfs is that, a lie. Just because something was biblically broken and got toned down to exceptionally broken doesn't mean it is still no broken, anybody can go right now to a pserver and see for themselves.



    Everybody can go to any pserver right now on 3.3.5a and see for themselves dude, there is no balance pach incomming, you will be stuck on what it is at release, stop lying.



    Didn't listed every single class in the game dude, stop lying.

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    Don't listen to this people trying to lie to you, go to any pserver right now and see for yourself.

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    Indeed, this is why Blizzard had to make dampening just like they made resillence because they are lazy fucks that instead of fixing the actual core of the problem (powercreep) they patched it some BS mechanic to try to mitigate the problem but it never works.

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    Just yesterday saw a duel with a preg vs a ret paladin, neither could die after like 30 minutes, they both left the duel, ret is still strong specially with shadowmourne.

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    Many of your points are a nirvana fallacy but you do say some important things like this:

    "Blizzard regretted the addition of Arena already in 2009."

    And for good reason, its a shitshow, a circus. No wonder it never took of as an e-sport, is just awful, but as you say they never did anyhing about it, like they never do, they released rated BG's with their own share of problems sure but way better than only doing clown fiesta arena.

    "You could take this post, change a few details (such as exchanging Shadowmourne for Warglaives) and much of this post would accurately describe TBC PvP."

    Indeed but this is my point, many, many people are complaining about TBC right now and they foolishly believe it will be better in WOTLK and it not only doesn't but it becomes worse.

    "PvP has been an evershrinking sideshow in WoW, no Classic expansion which encompasses the supposed "glory days" will change that"

    Exactly, this will never be the old days WOW, people have changed and the game has always been toxic with a toxic design or is designed in a way that makes people toxic, is just happens that back in the day gaming and mmorpgs were not as popular and people werent brainwashed to care about clout as much, people just wanted to have fun, now everybody is min maxing and tryharding thinking they can become the next streamer or the next youtuber and everybody will see them, is pathetic.
    My guess is that you're really bad, which has scorned you.

    People said the same stuff about tbc and it turned out way different that private servers.

    People said private server players would destroy anyone in tbc... Weird, didnt work out that way.

    People will say the same things about wrath... My guess is...... wont work out that way.

    The thing is... Private servers never quite get the numbers right. They have more / less their own balancing models and are far different from the actual games balancing.

  9. #29
    Mechagnome Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agall View Post
    You must've been a war with 100% armor pen and shadowmourne or a disc priests could solo heal 5s. I remember wotlk/cata being a lot like legion but in the opposite way, boring because everything was cookie cutter. Wotlk/cata had such OP pve gear that you had to run it and legion had standardized stats with 0 build variability.

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    When has RMP/RMx not been strong?

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    Cata was so PVE gear dependent that you had to do normal/heroic raid to be truly competitive. I know people who got gladiator in s10,s11 exclusively because of legendaries and trinkets, they admit to such.
    I got glad in season 10 and season 11 with noone on my team having pve gear. Played Fire mage / ele sham / priest both seasons.

    But, id like to say that i cant think of a single expansion where there wasnt OP pve gear at some point.
    Last edited by Recovery; 2022-06-28 at 04:26 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Agall View Post
    Cata was so PVE gear dependent that you had to do normal/heroic raid to be truly competitive. I know people who got gladiator in s10,s11 exclusively because of legendaries and trinkets, they admit to such.
    wile the daggers were pretty good,in wrath i was 2.4k in 3's and in cata got to 2.6k,in wrath we tried to sneak in as much pve gear as posible,also being human,in cata we had like almost nothing,and we did raid all the content

  11. #31
    Pretty shit take, and just screams "I never played Wrath"
    - Healers aren't broken, rofl. Nor are they unkillable for most of the good dps specs. Can some of them live for a long time... Sure? Literally no different to any other point in WoW's history.
    - You didn't NEED pve items. There were a lot of rank 1 teams that were in full pvp gear. Hell, Vileroze Jpeg and Shouri got R1 3k rated in Season 8, using Season 6 gear.
    - Paladins... Broken OP... Lmao, not really. DKs also not really after they got better tuned post Season5.
    - Shadowmourne eh. I'll give you half a mark there. Season 7/8 were wizardcleave / RMP / RLS seasons. Mage/Lock/Druid absolutely ruins double healer/warrior, TSG and KFC.
    - Classes were really imbalanced... In what sense? Name a season/expansion where some sort of parity was achieved between classes. I'll wait.
    - Forced arenas, gear behind arena rating... Oookay... How is this any different to how it has been the past 3 or 4 expansions? You get previous season gear with honor, which is quite literally how it's been since TBC season 1. Then arena for better gear.



    Generic new account shitposter, making a generic whine thread to try and stir the pot. I give it a 3/10.
    If I don't respond to something you tagged me in, assume one of two things.
    1) Your post was too stupid to acknowledge, or
    2) Your post is cringe and not worth replying to.

    Alternatively, if it happens a lot I probably have you blocked due to one of the above things. Thank you.

  12. #32
    Epic! Ermelloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    [*]Paladins and Death knights are completely broken OP
    So, when in Vanilla Warriors, Rogues and Mages were OP af, this was just fine. And those few Rets who dared to play, had to suffer all way long if they wanted any PvP title.

    And when in TBC Resto Druid, SL Warlock, same Rogues and Mages are once again OP af, well... RMP / RMD, CC CC CC, can't control your character, poly kidney blind fear rinse & repeat, CC CC CC, reset, again CC CC CC...

    I guess RM players really believe that dominating PvP for years long is their sacred privilege.

    I'll tell you what. Paladins (especially Rets) deserve to be OP, at least once per 4-5 expansions. It doesn't happen too often, and it did happen in WoTLK. And I can't wait to experience it once again and give all these Rogues and Mages middle finger. Justice of a sort, you know.

    Also, I kinda think that one of the reason WoTLK is so liked (among many others) is that RM is not the most OP combo in Arenas this expansion, at least till last seasons, and even then it can be dealt with (unlike Cata).

    Seasons 5-6 is a melee world, plate DPS grounds. A fresh breeze in-between caster / rogue dominated TBC, caster / rogue dominated Cata, caster / rogue dominated MoP. Next time melee cleaves will reign supreme is WoD, but it's highly unlikely to happen again, so..
    Last edited by Ermelloth; 2022-06-28 at 06:36 PM.

  13. #33
    The class is completely broken and requieres no skill but it also is boring as fuck to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post

    If were being honest, there is absolutely NO reason that a dps class SHOULD be able to kill a healer 1v1. Its a healer.
    Only an idiot or a healer player would say that.

    My guess is that you're really bad, which has scorned you.

    People said the same stuff about tbc and it turned out way different that private servers.

    People said private server players would destroy anyone in tbc... Weird, didnt work out that way.

    People will say the same things about wrath... My guess is...... wont work out that way.

    The thing is... Private servers never quite get the numbers right. They have more / less their own balancing models and are far different from the actual games balancing.
    There are a lot of post about how bad the pvp is in current classic TBC, they will make the same or more about WOTLK. All your add hominems you can jus shove them you know were healer player.

  14. #34
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Pretty shit take, and just screams "I never played Wrath"
    - Healers aren't broken, rofl. Nor are they unkillable for most of the good dps specs. Can some of them live for a long time... Sure? Literally no different to any other point in WoW's history.
    - You didn't NEED pve items. There were a lot of rank 1 teams that were in full pvp gear. Hell, Vileroze Jpeg and Shouri got R1 3k rated in Season 8, using Season 6 gear.
    - Paladins... Broken OP... Lmao, not really. DKs also not really after they got better tuned post Season5.
    - Shadowmourne eh. I'll give you half a mark there. Season 7/8 were wizardcleave / RMP / RLS seasons. Mage/Lock/Druid absolutely ruins double healer/warrior, TSG and KFC.
    - Classes were really imbalanced... In what sense? Name a season/expansion where some sort of parity was achieved between classes. I'll wait.
    - Forced arenas, gear behind arena rating... Oookay... How is this any different to how it has been the past 3 or 4 expansions? You get previous season gear with honor, which is quite literally how it's been since TBC season 1. Then arena for better gear.



    Generic new account shitposter, making a generic whine thread to try and stir the pot. I give it a 3/10.
    No he was probably banned on his other account, lol.

    I'm going to guess he played warrior and just shoves DK/Paladin into the fire, instead of talking about how broken warriors were in S8 with Shadowmourne as well.

    What I remember from WoTLK (playing as the game updated) were DKs and paladins being busted in S5, and hunters being broken in S5 as well. S7 you saw a massive rise of beast cleave becoming prominent, while a lot of S8 was double healer warrior or caster cleaves. I played double healer DK and got plenty of angry whispers from double healer warrior teams because they usually got hard countered by my composition (meanwhile, if DBW lined up at the proper time within CDs the warrior could global most cloth wearers).

    I predominately played 2s in the first couple seasons, but 3s in the last seasons. You literally saw everything in the game in 3s during S8. Tons of RMP, TSG, RLS and Wizards everywhere. What more do you really want?

    "Good players" would still get gladiator and R1 regardless of PvE items, people who did both would have an edge over people of similar skill though. PvE items didn't really stop being a thing in PvP until recently though.

    I'll take this from what I learned in TBC arena. The same things that were strong in S4 are mostly the same things that are strong in S3/S4 back when TBC was a thing. I doubt this is going to be different in WoTLK, private server or not. The thing is, most 'good PvP' players are actively playing real versions of the game (classic, or retail) and not playing shitty WoTLK private servers where they will be dunked on by people who are actually fucking good at the game. So OPs claim to just go play on a pserver means nothing, considering most people who are actually good at the game sort of well.. move on.

    Using classic as a comparison is just a dumb joke. Most people use it to gear and then never go back. At least there's MM in arena and people actually play to play against good people. When you hit R14 in classic WoW you just fucking stop doing BGs forever. Forced arena is dumb too. It's been like this forever except like WoD, and to a lesser extent SL (which they keep making easier), so I don't even see how this is a complain.

    It's just odd and there's tons of fallacies in his posts. Apparently everybody can one shot people with broken damage, but healers are unkillable. If that level of damage exists, no healer is going to be able to live in situations where properly setup double CC happens to keep themselves alive, or their partners alive. But isn't that the design intent of the game? Healers shouldn't realistically die easily 1v1 because it breaks the entire point of competitive arena, or hell, even BGs. Proper setup by your team in 2s or 3s (or BGs) should always obliterate healers, and that's typically the difference between good and bad players (or duelists, gladiators and R1 players). He just sounds like somebody who only cares about duels and that his class has little self healing, and no real proper opportunity to kill a healer. Good thing the game isn't balanced around that.

    I've seen worse things in this game. Launch MoP was awful and the end of Cataclysm with the disgusting trinkets available were arguably even worse than anything that came out of ICC. It was sure fun having warriors sit in sword/board, building up taste for blood stacks then unleashing a heroic strike for 75% of your life, a shockwave then following it up with a GCD that would kill you. Then ghostcrawler saying it's fine because getting 4+ stacks only happens like 5% of the time anyway. Never forget how strong stampede was at the start of MoP either (granted half of that was a bug where temporary pets weren't flagged to have proper damage reductions).

  15. #35
    Jumping into PvP absolutely sucked. So the first couple of dozen of games where you have no PvP gear is gonna suck. But if PvP balance is what it was duing season 8 I cant wait to get into it again. Season 8 was 100% the golden era for PvP. Plus gear being locked behind Arena wasnt even an issue. Even someone as super f*cking casual as me could get full Relentless during S8 (That was when Wrathful was the current prefix) with a bit of 3s every week.

    Though in all fairness OP did say Vanilla was the best time of PvP so I dunno. Maybe this whole thread is just trolling.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Pretty shit take, and just screams "I never played Wrath"
    - Healers aren't broken, rofl. Nor are they unkillable for most of the good dps specs. Can some of them live for a long time... Sure? Literally no different to any other point in WoW's history.
    - You didn't NEED pve items. There were a lot of rank 1 teams that were in full pvp gear. Hell, Vileroze Jpeg and Shouri got R1 3k rated in Season 8, using Season 6 gear.
    - Paladins... Broken OP... Lmao, not really. DKs also not really after they got better tuned post Season5.
    - Shadowmourne eh. I'll give you half a mark there. Season 7/8 were wizardcleave / RMP / RLS seasons. Mage/Lock/Druid absolutely ruins double healer/warrior, TSG and KFC.
    - Classes were really imbalanced... In what sense? Name a season/expansion where some sort of parity was achieved between classes. I'll wait.
    - Forced arenas, gear behind arena rating... Oookay... How is this any different to how it has been the past 3 or 4 expansions? You get previous season gear with honor, which is quite literally how it's been since TBC season 1. Then arena for better gear.



    Generic new account shitposter, making a generic whine thread to try and stir the pot. I give it a 3/10.
    Full in denial with nothing to back i up, mad as fuck because he knows all i am saying is the truth.

    Go to a pserver right now, see who is right and who is lying, all you need to know people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ermelloth View Post
    So, when in Vanilla Warriors, Rogues and Mages were OP af, this was just fine. And those few Rets who dared to play, had to suffer all way long if they wanted any PvP title.

    And when in TBC Resto Druid, SL Warlock, same Rogues and Mages are once again OP af, well... RMP / RMD, CC CC CC, can't control your character, poly kidney blind fear rinse & repeat, CC CC CC, reset, again CC CC CC...

    I guess RM players really believe that dominating PvP for years long is their sacred privilege.

    I'll tell you what. Paladins (especially Rets) deserve to be OP, at least once per 4-5 expansions. It doesn't happen too often, and it did happen in WoTLK. And I can't wait to experience it once again and give all these Rogues and Mages middle finger. Justice of a sort, you know.

    Also, I kinda think that one of the reason WoTLK is so liked (among many others) is that RM is not the most OP combo in Arenas this expansion, at least till last seasons, and even then it can be dealt with (unlike Cata).

    Seasons 5-6 is a melee world, plate DPS grounds. A fresh breeze in-between caster / rogue dominated TBC, caster / rogue dominated Cata, caster / rogue dominated MoP. Next time melee cleaves will reign supreme is WoD, but it's highly unlikely to happen again, so..

    People are already moving the goalpost to no deny but to admit they were OP and now they are justifying it.

    I AM RIGHT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amagh View Post
    Season 8 was 100% the golden era for PvP. Plus gear being locked behind Arena wasnt even an issue. Even someone as super f*cking casual as me could get full Relentless during S8
    Go to any pserver right now, you get free 80 with relentless gear, see how much you last compared to people in full BIS gear LMAO. Saying gear is not a problem is a lie.

  17. #37
    Sounds like someone started playing WOTLK as a Lock.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    I believe Vanilla was a much better pvp expansion.
    LMAOOOOOOO

    Thanks for the laugh bro.

  19. #39
    I remember being quite competent in my Relentless geared Warlock.

    Of course exceptions existed, Warriors walked right over me and Rogues usually got the upper hand.

    Also you're using private servers as a benchmark? I know I'm breaking my own rule by feeding the troll but sheesh.

  20. #40
    PvP started hilarously in Wrath, with rating requirements on just about everything, even honor gear (I think the libram slot was the only exception). They walked that back pretty quickly, I think, or at least they changed the rating system.

    Wintergrasp was fun, though.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

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