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  1. #101
    I am Murloc!
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    It's literally not worth it to engage with this person. He can't refute his original statement that healers are both invincible, yet there are classes going around one shotting each other. Instead of engaging he's using terms from his a single debate class he took in HS or University instead of actually replying to the many comments in this thread. I don't even play a healer, and coming from a DPS it would be stupid if a single class could man handle a healer as it just throws off balance in literally 99% of PvP.

    I would never call WoTLK the best expansion for PvP, but I would hardly call it the worst. If I was being honest it would be somewhere in the middle, but that warrants another (sane) discussion in another thread. I can't think of a class that doesn't have a single spec they can't use, whether it's 2s, 3s, 5s or BGs if we're using the 3.3 model of the game (which is what we will get).

    It's clear as day that the OP doesn't care about arenas or even BGs. It just oozes that he sits out in front of capital cities dueling because that's the only thing that matters to him (despite years of Blizzard saying they don't really balance PvP around singular engagements, and in the past several years 2s arena). He obviously plays a class with little self healing which is probably a great class in many 2s, 3s, 5s or BGs, but is less than stellar at flexing muscles in a classic duel. He obviously doesn't play a paladin as he throws shit on them constantly (I don't either), but if he did, he strikes me as the type of person that would rather bubble hearth than lose a fucking duel, or /AFK in a BG before getting killed by somebody lol.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Tell us your argument sucks, without telling us your argument sucks. Also that's not an appeal to ridicule fallacy. It's pointing out very contradicting statements you've made.


    Btw if healers never die, how do they get one shot?
    It is a really sad and low IQ appeal to ridicule fallacy, it is what it is used for and it only demonstrate that the person that come up with it and the people that actually believe there is some inconsistency on my statements have LOW IQ

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

    Only people with low IQ believe something is true and that truth is unique, high IQ people knows two apparently "contradictory" statements can be truth both and can coexist. This is why masses get manipulated by politics (left and right) is litterally mind control and people don't realize it because they became cattle, programs, npc's that only live to react to the buttons that are pushed to guide them to one side or the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woods123 View Post
    You literally said both. I’m asking you which one it is. This isn’t some “fallacy” you are repeating. Just answer the god damn question. If you can’t then you are admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about
    Refer to the above low Iq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    1. Explain this too - "doubling down", what do you mean?
    2. Right about what? I just asked a question.
    3. And, again - are healers unkillable or one shotted?

    But you'll continue to rise more questions, never answering, like low quality troll, right?
    Refer to the avobe low iq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Just my personal opinion but i unironically had more fun in Classic doing PvP than in TBC right now.

    The main issue simply stems from the Arena systems and it just clashes with the class design.
    You listed a bunch things that were broken in Classic, true, but that's just it, basically every class had something truly broken.

    Rogues, sure, they could 1v1 almost anyone.
    Now add them into a teamfight and they pop faster than pickle when any caster / warrior looks at them.
    Locks had their OP dots.
    Then a Warrior charged at them and they turned into a mana sponge for healers.
    Warriors were truly juggernaughts.
    Until a Mage left them in a Frost Nova.
    I could go on, from Ele Shaman one shotting people, to Hunters making priests cry with Viper Sting.

    Classic is effectively balanced around Rock, Paper, Scissor except now thanks to Arena there sometimes is no counter present, because all of what you listed is largely still true in TBC.
    Blizzard solely managed to solve this by homogenizing the shit out of classes, which is something that certainly started in Wrath.

    Wrath is a better PvP experience than TBC in my opinion, but in my view the heart of the issue is that the combination of the small scale battles (Arena) as the prime PvP mode led to massive class homogenization because of how certain classes either were too damn broken or could not function within it.
    Nevermind the potential of frustration that comes with any Rating system, especially when actual power relevant rewards are locked behind it.

    This is not an endorsement of the Vanilla PvP system, but as i said earlier, Blizzard recognized not without reason pretty early that Arena was a mistake.
    Yeah there is a reason they said: "Arenas were a mistake", because they are, they are not even fun to play on the contrary. Vanilla was better, way better in fact, WOTLK just makes things worse and instead of actually fixing the problems they keep patching the issues instead of fixing them. Blizzard is a shit company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    It's literally not worth it to engage with this person. He can't refute his original statement that healers are both invincible, yet there are classes going around one shotting each other. Instead of engaging he's using terms from his a single debate class he took in HS or University instead of actually replying to the many comments in this thread. I don't even play a healer, and coming from a DPS it would be stupid if a single class could man handle a healer as it just throws off balance in literally 99% of PvP.

    I would never call WoTLK the best expansion for PvP, but I would hardly call it the worst. If I was being honest it would be somewhere in the middle, but that warrants another (sane) discussion in another thread. I can't think of a class that doesn't have a single spec they can't use, whether it's 2s, 3s, 5s or BGs if we're using the 3.3 model of the game (which is what we will get).

    It's clear as day that the OP doesn't care about arenas or even BGs. It just oozes that he sits out in front of capital cities dueling because that's the only thing that matters to him (despite years of Blizzard saying they don't really balance PvP around singular engagements, and in the past several years 2s arena). He obviously plays a class with little self healing which is probably a great class in many 2s, 3s, 5s or BGs, but is less than stellar at flexing muscles in a classic duel. He obviously doesn't play a paladin as he throws shit on them constantly (I don't either), but if he did, he strikes me as the type of person that would rather bubble hearth than lose a fucking duel, or /AFK in a BG before getting killed by somebody lol.
    Refer to my first quote low iq.
    Last edited by kironto; 2022-06-30 at 05:25 PM.

  3. #103
    Brewmaster Ermelloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nak88 View Post
    The general consensus is that Cataclysm was the greatest expansion in terms of PvP.
    If you played Rogue or Mage, sure. These two classes were even more broken in the end of Cata that they are now in SL season 3.
    From Ret PoV Cata PvP was a nightmare, only Vanilla was worse, but then it at least has an excuse - Retribution's toolkit was basically incomplete.
    Cata PvP was so bad that I will never set foot in Cataclysm again, at least not in PvP.
    Last edited by Ermelloth; 2022-06-30 at 06:20 PM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    It is a really sad and low IQ appeal to ridicule fallacy, it is what it is used for and it only demonstrate that the person that come up with it and the people that actually believe there is some inconsistency on my statements have LOW IQ

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

    Only people with low IQ believe something is true and that truth is unique, high IQ people knows two apparently "contradictory" statements can be truth both and can coexist. This is why masses get manipulated by politics (left and right) is litterally mind control and people don't realize it because they became cattle, programs, npc's that only live to react to the buttons that are pushed to guide them to one side or the other.

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    Refer to the above low Iq.

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    Refer to the avobe low iq.

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    Yeah there is a reason they said: "Arenas were a mistake", because they are, they are not even fun to play on the contrary. Vanilla was better, way better in fact, WOTLK just makes things worse and instead of actually fixing the problems they keep patching the issues instead of fixing them. Blizzard is a shit company.

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    Refer to my first quote low iq.
    Q in q-anon stands for high iQ, I see I see.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Q in q-anon stands for high iQ, I see I see.
    So now that you have been answered and exposed again you will go to adhominem attacks. Expected from low IQ's.

  6. #106
    Mechagnome Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    So now that you have been answered and exposed again you will go to adhominem attacks. Expected from low IQ's.
    Yo, dude! I just realized... YOURE COMPLETELY CORRECT. Wrath sucks. Healers are literally invincible. All classes except healers run around 1 shotting each other! ITS MADNESS. DK 1 shot everything though. (nothing can 1 shot a dk).

    ITS INSANE! How did i miss this the first go around? WOW.

    Thanks for showing me that my IQ is low and i need to raise it! I gained 60 points today!

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    It is a really sad and low IQ appeal to ridicule fallacy, it is what it is used for and it only demonstrate that the person that come up with it and the people that actually believe there is some inconsistency on my statements have LOW IQ

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

    Only people with low IQ believe something is true and that truth is unique, high IQ people knows two apparently "contradictory" statements can be truth both and can coexist. This is why masses get manipulated by politics (left and right) is litterally mind control and people don't realize it because they became cattle, programs, npc's that only live to react to the buttons that are pushed to guide them to one side or the other.

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    Refer to the above low Iq.

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    Refer to the avobe low iq.

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    Yeah there is a reason they said: "Arenas were a mistake", because they are, they are not even fun to play on the contrary. Vanilla was better, way better in fact, WOTLK just makes things worse and instead of actually fixing the problems they keep patching the issues instead of fixing them. Blizzard is a shit company.

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    Refer to my first quote low iq.
    Why are you not just simply answering a question to something you specifically said yourself. Which statement do you fall behind, is everyone getting one shot or is no one dying? Those are two things you said. Which one is correct?

    I like how you’re scrambling around linking your now THIRD random fallacy when I have literally just been asking one singular question.

    Is everyone getting one shot or is no one dying? I haven’t even said anything about your argument yet.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Yo, dude! I just realized... YOURE COMPLETELY CORRECT. Wrath sucks. Healers are literally invincible. All classes except healers run around 1 shotting each other! ITS MADNESS. DK 1 shot everything though. (nothing can 1 shot a dk).

    ITS INSANE! How did i miss this the first go around? WOW.

    Thanks for showing me that my IQ is low and i need to raise it! I gained 60 points today!
    Having a meltdown already, expected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woods123 View Post
    Why are you not just simply answering a question to something you specifically said yourself. Which statement do you fall behind, is everyone getting one shot or is no one dying? Those are two things you said. Which one is correct?

    I like how you’re scrambling around linking your now THIRD random fallacy when I have literally just been asking one singular question.

    Is everyone getting one shot or is no one dying? I haven’t even said anything about your argument yet.
    Pretending I haven't showed you how imbecilic your questioning is won't make you look less of a low IQ.

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Nothing "random", jus because you lack the mental capacity to understand what someone is saying to you it doesn't mean is random, in fact randomness in the real world doesn't even exist, but I don't expec a simpleton to understand that.
    Last edited by kironto; 2022-06-30 at 08:48 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    So now that you have been answered and exposed again you will go to adhominem attacks. Expected from low IQ's.
    Insulting someone's IQ instead of actually answering questions, is the epitome of ad-hominem, mate.


    If everyone gets one-shot, as you have stated, then healers shouldn't be unkillable. Yes or no?


    edit: Y'know what. Refer to my signature.
    If I don't respond to something you tagged me in, assume one of two things.
    1) Your post was too stupid to acknowledge, or
    2) Your post is cringe and not worth replying to.

    Alternatively, if it happens a lot I probably have you blocked due to one of the above things. Thank you.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Insulting someone's IQ instead of actually answering questions, is the epitome of ad-hominem, mate.


    If everyone gets one-shot, as you have stated, then healers shouldn't be unkillable. Yes or no?


    edit: Y'know what. Refer to my signature.
    I am stating the obvious, I already answered the question, if you are such simpleton you can't understand the answer or malicious that you pretend i didn' then you can just fo already.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    Having a meltdown already, expected.

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    Pretending I haven't showed you how imbecilic your questioning is won't make you look less of a low IQ.

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Nothing "random", jus because you lack the mental capacity to understand what someone is saying to you it doesn't mean is random, in fact randomness in the real world doesn't even exist, but I don't expec a simpleton to understand that.
    Look at all this scrambling over a single question. Do people get one shot in wotlk pvp?

  12. #112
    Op is using private server arguments, lol. He's clueless and taking you all for a ride.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    I am stating the obvious, I already answered the question, if you are such simpleton you can't understand the answer or malicious that you pretend i didn' then you can just fo already.
    Link me where you answered this, I just keep seeing random quote from Wikipedia talking about fallacies for some reason.

    So are healers unkillable?

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    So now that you have been answered and exposed again you will go to adhominem attacks. Expected from low IQ's.
    Are healers unkillable or one shotted? You're doing science, boi, not word play. Or are you not delivering facts, but feelings? Fuck your feelings, you feel wrong. Try next time, with facts. And stop weaseling out of this one with your "low iq" and links to wikipedia, I don't care about your hissy fits, I want facts.
    Last edited by ldev; 2022-07-01 at 09:11 AM.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

    yall im smh @ ur simplified english

  15. #115
    Already answered:

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Only evil people do what you are doing.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    Already answered:

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Only evil people do what you are doing.
    you're not a great troll but people keep biting and arguing. this has been hilarious

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    Already answered:

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Only evil people do what you are doing.
    Do healers get one shot?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Woods123 View Post
    Do healers get one shot?
    Already answered:

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Only evil people do what you are doing.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by kironto View Post
    Already answered:

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Only evil people do what you are doing.
    Evil? What? I just want an answer, and you didn’t answer it yet. It’s a yes or no. Do healers get one shot

  20. #120
    Already answered:

    "A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when in fact, there could be many. For example, a false dilemma is committed when it is claimed that, "Stacey spoke out against capitalism; therefore, she must be a communist". One of the options excluded is that Stacey may be neither communist nor capitalist."

    Only evil people do what you are doing.

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