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  1. #121
    One thing that caught my eye with the whole 'dragons doing barrel rolls' maneuverer, was I remember way back, before BC's release, Blizzard released a video (Or maybe it was a Blizcon video? I really don't remember) that had a couple of Gnomes explaining how flight worked, which included the netherdrake he was riding doing a barrel roll. Don't suppose anyone else remembers/has a link to it?

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Tentim View Post
    I find people who want hard perma death games rarely if ever want them as multiplayer games and the market kinda proves it.

    No one wants to lose all their progress because some one insta killed them at 10% hp from stealth or gang banged them 10 to 1.
    WoW is also an extremely toothless game outside of mythic and arguably heroic raids. I doubt it would garner much interest.
    It has to be balanced with personal power, as it was in SWG. You could play as a normal person and never face permadeath or skill loss and have a wonderful time. But, if you wanted to play a Jedi, you had greatly increased personal power at the cost of a risk of danger. Getting caught at 10% health or ganged up on by a number of other players was something you could handle because the Jedi characters were that much more powerful than a normal character. But you could be beat so it kept you on your toes.

    All of this made it a choice, and it was an appealing choice. I suppose it really can't be explained to someone who didn't experience it but it was the most thrilling MMO experience I've ever had. Death in WoW has never meant a single thing other than a little time lost no matter the difficulty level. If you can just keep throwing yourself at something with no consequence then how can it really feel like it mattered?

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    Yes ofc world mobs would have to again represent danger to player. Thats just another of many coviniences what has ruined wow. World content as it is now is utter joke without even slighest difficulty or challenge.
    Ruined? You make it sound like world content at some point had any element of danger which is just untrue.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Ruined? You make it sound like world content at some point had any element of danger which is just untrue.
    This is common problem. Guys seek for danger in wrong content. If they want danger, they should do Mythic+ or Mythic Raids. If they want to do solo content, they should do Mage Tower or Torghast. But these guys constantly try to take content away from casual players instead, like if whole game should be designed personally for them.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    It has to be balanced with personal power, as it was in SWG. You could play as a normal person and never face permadeath or skill loss and have a wonderful time. But, if you wanted to play a Jedi, you had greatly increased personal power at the cost of a risk of danger. Getting caught at 10% health or ganged up on by a number of other players was something you could handle because the Jedi characters were that much more powerful than a normal character. But you could be beat so it kept you on your toes.

    All of this made it a choice, and it was an appealing choice. I suppose it really can't be explained to someone who didn't experience it but it was the most thrilling MMO experience I've ever had. Death in WoW has never meant a single thing other than a little time lost no matter the difficulty level. If you can just keep throwing yourself at something with no consequence then how can it really feel like it mattered?
    That isn't how being a jedi worked... the way you are describing was after it was changed and didnt have perma.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    Problem is. Antiflyers understand importance of adversity in mmorpg game and fact how overcoming adversity leads to fun and memorable experiences while proflying crowd just sees covinience and ends up on forums wondering why is game so hollow and boring. Ufortunately as in most cases they always end up blaming some completly unrelated system rather then admiting that it was fault of adding covinient features what removed adversity and turned game into hollow husk.
    Overcoming adversity means as soon as I explore the zone and complete the zone quests, I should be able to fly. And most of the pro-flight folks would accept that compromise. But in your argument, you have to overcome the adversity, then overcome it again, then again, and again, and again, and so on...basically Ground Hog's Day.

    That was what Blizzard said in WoD when they decided just to remove flight going forward. Basically saying that they were changing it so that we are never able to finish overcoming the adversity. That's what we reject.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    What are your thoughts? Did they get it right? Did they do well enough leaving flight out of Oribos, The Maw, and Korthia? Since Zereth Mortis is essentially the new Timeless Isle, was this the better place to add flight, or should Korthia have been given flight and ZM left on the ground?
    What they got wrong:

    • They took way too long to introduce flight. Should have been immediately after the zone is explored and the zone story is complete
    • All zones should have flying once their story is complete, including the Maw and Korthia

    What they got right:

    • Zereth Mortis, I think, is a good example of a zone done correctly. I'm grounded when I get there and going through the story, but once complete, I can now fly if I want to farm there.
    • I'm OK that you can't fly in Oribos. It's more of a city than a zone. I mean, I would have been OK with being able to fly there as well (like Dalaran and Shattrath), but it's small enough that I was fine with restricting flight there.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  7. #127
    "Should we have flying?" is the same question as "Should we have normal/heroic dungeons?" and "Should we have LFR?". Specific content just can't be casual and hardcore at the same time. Devs try to find what they think is the best compromise, but it's pointless, as compromise is bad for everybody. They should either: 1) Leave outdoor for casual players, cuz in most cases such players don't have any other options, while hardcores have lots of them 2) Finally solve this problem via implementing difficulty settings. That's it. What should be sacrificed - is factor of competition. I.e. that "Hardcore player would be pissed off, if casual player would get everything easier". Hardcore players play their own game. Higher difficulty - is their voluntary choice. They should compete with each other - not with poor casuals.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Link some posts that say what you claim.
    Maybe if you said please. After all, the only reason you every quote me is to pick a fight or discredit an opinion. But the only one that really matters would be this one:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post35695775

    160 pages, more then 2200 posts... willful ignorance is not a virtue.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Maybe if you said please. After all, the only reason you every quote me is to pick a fight or discredit an opinion. But the only one that really matters would be this one:

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post35695775

    160 pages, more then 2200 posts... willful ignorance is not a virtue.
    Lets have a look at the post you linked to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    removing flight added nothing to the game but tedium and annoyance.
    Yikers, off to a rough start. Maybe it improves?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    Guess it was you anti fly boys that are the vocal minority huh?
    Well that didnt get better really......what else did thy have to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    I also predict that Legion w/have the most lackluster launch of any expac, with the smallest increase in subs (8 million total)

    I also predict the expac following Legion will be the last significant expac we will see in WoW.

    Lastly I predict that years from now when people discuss the death of WoW, WoD is going to be considered that catalyst for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  10. #130
    Ehhh. The most recent interviews say, that Dragonflying will be on a par with ordinal flying by mid xpack. This tells everything about this new feature. Forget about getting flying within month. It will be overstretched content again.

    And. I can't find this quote now, but I swear, I saw statement in some of recent interviews, that devs don't think about giving flying earlier during leveling. Big mistake. 30lvl is too late. May be they're too stubborn about constantly trying to show us, that half of this game is played without flying, but it's pointless to show it to me, as I know too well, how bad this game is without flying.

    No flying till 30 ruins my WOD leveling immersion. SL is very boring. Anima, gifts, mission table grinds are still too slow. ZM is boring as hell. Nothing to do after getting 246 gear, completing weekly quest and opening sand chest. I usually level alts during such xpack downtimes. But when I think about leveling to 30 without flying...it big no no for me.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Ehhh. The most recent interviews say, that Dragonflying will be on a par with ordinal flying by mid xpack. This tells everything about this new feature. Forget about getting flying within month. It will be overstretched content again.

    And. I can't find this quote now, but I swear, I saw statement in some of recent interviews, that devs don't think about giving flying earlier during leveling. Big mistake. 30lvl is too late. May be they're too stubborn about constantly trying to show us, that half of this game is played without flying, but it's pointless to show it to me, as I know too well, how bad this game is without flying.

    No flying till 30 ruins my WOD leveling immersion. SL is very boring. Anima, gifts, mission table grinds are still too slow. ZM is boring as hell. Nothing to do after getting 246 gear, completing weekly quest and opening sand chest. I usually level alts during such xpack downtimes. But when I think about leveling to 30 without flying...it big no no for me.
    I've been doing ZM pretty religiously and I still don't have all the mounts. The pets I just bought off the AH but the mounts you have to make yourself and the genesis motes take a while to farm. Do you not consider collecting to be content? If no I find your sig very ironic.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I've been doing ZM pretty religiously and I still don't have all the mounts. The pets I just bought off the AH but the mounts you have to make yourself and the genesis motes take a while to farm. Do you not consider collecting to be content? If no I find your sig very ironic.
    I'm collector, but I don't collect just for sake of collecting. I collect only mounts I like. For example I don't need ground mounts at all. I'm not interested in pets and pet battles.

    Only viable goal in ZM for me - is class sets, depite of them being quite meh. What they require - are weekly quest, daily chest and pair of rares (I hate to camp rng spawns, waste of my time).

    I tried to grind Anima for 9.0 content. Still way too slow. 1-1.5k a day is joke. Whole SL is way too overstretched. I hope DF will be better.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Ruined? You make it sound like world content at some point had any element of danger which is just untrue.
    Then adding the danger back in is especially overdue.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I'm collector, but I don't collect just for sake of collecting. I collect only mounts I like. For example I don't need ground mounts at all. I'm not interested in pets and pet battles.

    Only viable goal in ZM for me - is class sets, depite of them being quite meh. What they require - are weekly quest, daily chest and pair of rares (I hate to camp rng spawns, waste of my time).

    I tried to grind Anima for 9.0 content. Still way too slow. 1-1.5k a day is joke. Whole SL is way too overstretched. I hope DF will be better.
    If you deliberately exclude content you don't get to say there's no content to do. That's just plain dishonest. It's like opening a fridge, not being in the mood for what's in it, and lying and saying it's empty.

    1 to 1.5k a day? You get 1 to 1.5k per zone these days. I'm just going to assume you never bothered to get all your sanctum features up to rank 3 to unlock to upgrades and never did the perk in Korthia to get bonus anima from every WQ. Then on top of that Korthia is ~3k a day. ZM another 3k if you don't chest farm.

    You literally didn't do any of the content which increases the anima gains you earn, then complain that the gains are too low.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Ruined? You make it sound like world content at some point had any element of danger which is just untrue.
    Before TBC there were lots of outdoor elite areas. Razorfen Downs and Blackfathom Deeps actually had mini dungeons outside them before you got to the instance portal. Hinterlands had a literal troll city that was what dungeons would be in WoW if they weren't instanced.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Ehhh. The most recent interviews say, that Dragonflying will be on a par with ordinal flying by mid xpack. This tells everything about this new feature. Forget about getting flying within month. It will be overstretched content again.

    And. I can't find this quote now, but I swear, I saw statement in some of recent interviews, that devs don't think about giving flying earlier during leveling. Big mistake. 30lvl is too late. May be they're too stubborn about constantly trying to show us, that half of this game is played without flying, but it's pointless to show it to me, as I know too well, how bad this game is without flying.

    No flying till 30 ruins my WOD leveling immersion. SL is very boring. Anima, gifts, mission table grinds are still too slow. ZM is boring as hell. Nothing to do after getting 246 gear, completing weekly quest and opening sand chest. I usually level alts during such xpack downtimes. But when I think about leveling to 30 without flying...it big no no for me.
    Watch some alpha videos or something. How is dragonflying going to be on pat with normal flying, when it's already twice as fast. It's extremely fast. Normal flying doesn't even compare.

    So no, you're actually getting a much better deal.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    If you deliberately exclude content you don't get to say there's no content to do. That's just plain dishonest. It's like opening a fridge, not being in the mood for what's in it, and lying and saying it's empty.

    1 to 1.5k a day? You get 1 to 1.5k per zone these days. I'm just going to assume you never bothered to get all your sanctum features up to rank 3 to unlock to upgrades and never did the perk in Korthia to get bonus anima from every WQ. Then on top of that Korthia is ~3k a day. ZM another 3k if you don't chest farm.

    You literally didn't do any of the content which increases the anima gains you earn, then complain that the gains are too low.
    Player doesn't have to do 100% content, if he doesn't like some parts of it. SL has lots of content, but at the same time it's 2nd xpack in a row, where this content is structured so badly, that Blizzard themseves literally block this content for me.

    Parts of content, I'm interested in:
    1) Covenant sanctum - major xpack's content, too overstretched, anima grind is too slow for me.
    2) Mission table - too overstretched, it has taken 3 months of grinding Necromancer Lair just to get to more or less interesting missions. What player would bear so long boring gating?
    3) Class sets - too overstretched, just 70/week+40/day. It's bearable for me just because I have same class alts.

    Maw and Korthia? No flying and implicit group requirement kill this content for me. No flying is obvious. Implicit group requirement is MMOish, but it automatically kills content, when it obsoletes. Completing content later on undergeared alts? Nah, it's dead, cuz major currency income comes from rares and they aren't soloable.

    That Poc-poc thing? Yeah, Blizzard tried to pull Pepe's card here. But it's not interesting for me. Yeah, I've completed Garrisons on around 25 characters, but have never found any Pepes.

    So, when I log in, I just ask myself, what should I do now. And I can barely find answer for this question.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Watch some alpha videos or something. How is dragonflying going to be on pat with normal flying, when it's already twice as fast. It's extremely fast. Normal flying doesn't even compare.

    So no, you're actually getting a much better deal.
    What amount of time will it take for it to turn from quick gliding to actual flying?

  17. #137
    I just find humour in the irony that it's probably the same people bitching about how brain dead WoW has become that want the return of brain dead normal flying.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post


    What amount of time will it take for it to turn from quick gliding to actual flying?
    It already is actual flying. You just got to press press a couple of buttons.

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