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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    So let me get this straight, because Muru didn't survive the longest out of the TBC bosses he is suggesting this is comparable to how wotlk bosses operated in terms of how long they survived.
    Are you purposely being obtuse just for the sake of arguing here or what? Everyone in this thread can understand his example without jumping to conclusions and getting emotional about it, you're purposely trying to be argumentative here and it's just pointless. Stop acting like what he said is some big deal or that it's some wild conclusion he's making. You're being a drama queen, nobody else in the thread is.


    I mean it's not as if private servers told us exactly what would happen in the last two versions of classic now right?? Lol seems they all got those pretty god damn good. They got wotlk good too. But unless you truly honestly don't believe in private server accuracy (which you should its been proven to be extremely accurate but w/e) then just look at what happened in live. Way way way way more people finished togc than things like hardmode 25 mimiron or things like yogg +0 or shit even things like algalon. It wasn't even remotely close to the same difficulty.
    Private servers told us wonderful things like how we would stack 15 warlocks on Muru, that Warriors would be a trash tier dps class and that Hydross was harder than Vashj. Comparing a gigantic raid like Ulduar with a 5 boss one room and no trash raid like TOTC which could be cleared 30mins, where you could farm 4 difficulities for loot and where the non-heroic versions of the bosses were extremely easy is pointless.

    You're working really hard here to compare two bosses that were killed very quickly, and you're getting dramatic about it. Try to just chill out and have a discussion with people instead of getting mad about it.

    But if you truly want to go around and say "Well if you had bad healers it was way more difficult", well yeah you're right and with bad healers then Valithria Dreamwalker is harder than Lich King. But we all know which one is considered harder...
    Dreamwalker was an easy boss though, notoriously so. It also doesn't have anything mechanic like Anub has that made it difficult, you can easily carry crappy switched off healers there. It's a silly comparison to make, and given how you reacted to the Mu'ru example above? If someone had made that same Dreamwalker example to you, you would have seemingly lost your shit at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Literally, every single raid made, before and after ToC was better than ToC.
    You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, I think it was a great raid. Having a raid with no trash and some interesting bosses as a filler between T8 and T10, spot on. WoW should have more of them. TOTC was the 3rd best raid in WOTLK and WOTLK was the 2nd best WoW expansion.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2022-07-23 at 06:25 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  2. #62
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    Naxx:
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Are you purposely being obtuse just for the sake of arguing here or what? Everyone in this thread can understand his example without jumping to conclusions and getting emotional about it, you're purposely trying to be argumentative here and it's just pointless. Stop acting like what he said is some big deal or that it's some wild conclusion he's making. You're being a drama queen, nobody else in the thread is.



    Private servers told us wonderful things like how we would stack 15 warlocks on Muru, that Warriors would be a trash tier dps class and that Hydross was harder than Vashj. Comparing a gigantic raid like Ulduar with a 5 boss one room and no trash raid like TOTC which could be cleared 30mins, where you could farm 4 difficulities for loot and where the non-heroic versions of the bosses were extremely easy is pointless.

    You're working really hard here to compare two bosses that were killed very quickly, and you're getting dramatic about it. Try to just chill out and have a discussion with people instead of getting mad about it.



    Dreamwalker was an easy boss though, notoriously so. It also doesn't have anything mechanic like Anub has that made it difficult, you can easily carry crappy switched off healers there. It's a silly comparison to make, and given how you reacted to the Mu'ru example above? If someone had made that same Dreamwalker example to you, you would have seemingly lost your shit at them.



    You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, I think it was a great raid. Having a raid with no trash and some interesting bosses as a filler between T8 and T10, spot on. WoW should have more of them. TOTC was the 3rd best raid in WOTLK and WOTLK was the 2nd best WoW expansion.
    I’m not being obtuse even a little bit, to anyone that has played wotlk they will tell you all of togc is a joke and that saying it can be harder than firefighter is an absolute joke, I shouldn’t even have responded to such a dumb statement. And don’t even try to say I’m the one being argumentative when I’m literally just stating what everyone accepts as a joke of a raid when this guy is coming up with the most outlandish excuses to make it seem like it could be even remotely as hard as firefighter.

    This is on par with suggesting patchwork could be considered the hardest boss in the expac on the condition that you have a level 60 tank. His reasoning for it possibly being harder considering your healers are bad is dumb, there’s nothing more to it. I shouldn’t even have humored such a response.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    This is on par with suggesting patchwork could be considered the hardest boss in the expac on the condition that you have a level 60 tank.
    Finding multiple competent healers is a tad bit harder than a level 80 tank.

    Like seriously, stop talking about stupid reasons when you suggested "when you struggle on an encounter, just find better players!", that is universally true for literally any encounter.

  5. #65
    Buffed PW is going to be the hardest fight in Naxxramas bar none, he's gonna dumpster any casual tank who hasn't farmed any gear prior to entering 25man and even then you have to be pretty attentive.

    Only other way around it is to strictly cycle defensives for the hateful tank and even then, that's dubious. Bad guilds aren't gonna have the comp or management to do this.
    Last edited by WaltherLeopold; 2022-07-24 at 11:44 AM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Finding multiple competent healers is a tad bit harder than a level 80 tank.

    Like seriously, stop talking about stupid reasons when you suggested "when you struggle on an encounter, just find better players!", that is universally true for literally any encounter.
    I’m not even humoring your ridiculous takes anymore bud. It’s a joke of an encounter with or without bad healers compared to firefighter. If you had bad healers on firefighter as well it is still going to be harder than anub. Full stop. End of discussion. I’m not even going to play along with you anymore.
    Last edited by Somic; 2022-07-24 at 12:35 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    This is on par with suggesting patchwork could be considered the hardest boss in the expac on the condition that you have a level 60 tank.
    No, it really isn't. Stop being ridiculous.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    No, it really isn't. Stop being ridiculous.
    Yes, yes it actually is. I wouldn’t be calling me ridiculous when we are discussing someone even suggesting that firefighter is easier in any world to anub, heroic or not.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Yes, yes it actually is. I wouldn’t be calling me ridiculous when we are discussing someone even suggesting that firefighter is easier in any world to anub, heroic or not.
    I'm sure you believe you're not being ridiculous with every ridiculous comparison you make, you're a nutcase. Guy above used an example of Muru to show that boss difficulty doesn't always correlate with time to kill and you lost your shit, meanwhile you over here making these charmers about Dreamwalker and Patchwerk.

    Top tier meme content from your posts Mr Somic.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Yes, yes it actually is. I wouldn’t be calling me ridiculous when we are discussing someone even suggesting that firefighter is easier in any world to anub, heroic or not.
    ...because it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether you'll do Anub'arak on normal or heroic.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I'm sure you believe you're not being ridiculous with every ridiculous comparison you make, you're a nutcase. Guy above used an example of Muru to show that boss difficulty doesn't always correlate with time to kill and you lost your shit, meanwhile you over here making these charmers about Dreamwalker and Patchwerk.

    Top tier meme content from your posts Mr Somic.
    Yes because the comparison of muru was absolutely 100% completely ridiculous as the reasons I stated above. Tbc boss “survival” times were skewed super hard because of many many reasons. When it comes to wotlk those reasons are no longer an issue.

    I shouldn’t even have to mention boss “kill times” because the statement itself is so absolutely ridiculous it shouldn’t even need it. I just mentioned it because I was humoring the thought of it being more difficult when in reality I shouldn’t even have bothered talking with someone so uninformed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    ...because it doesn't make any difference whatsoever whether you'll do Anub'arak on normal or heroic.
    It’s just a phrase my dude don’t look too deep into it. Much like I guess I shouldn’t have been looking too deep into something so obviously wrong as the statement you’re trying to push.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    It’s just a phrase my dude don’t look too deep into it. Much like I guess I shouldn’t have been looking too deep into something so obviously wrong as the statement you’re trying to push.
    The funny thing is, i've never said that Anub'arak is harder than Firefighter, i'm saying however that the metric you've used to highlight this is false.
    You presented Anub'arak HC as some total pushover encounter, which i disagree with because pretty all of your healers need to be on top of their game - which they usually are in the guilds that are doing the first kills (that however does not conversely mean that Firefighter is easier than Anub 25man, just that the encounter isn't as easy as you make it out to be).

    But you got so completely stuck in this conversation, made absolutely terrible comparisons such as "It's like doing Patchwerk with a level 60" and wonderful advices like "If you wipe, just get better players!" that all you're displaying at this point is just your utter absence of the ability to self reflect.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The funny thing is, i've never said that Anub'arak is harder than Firefighter, i'm saying however that the metric you've used to highlight this is false.
    You presented Anub'arak HC as some total pushover encounter, which i disagree with because pretty all of your healers need to be on top of their game - which they usually are in the guilds that are doing the first kills (that however does not conversely mean that Firefighter is easier than Anub 25man, just that the encounter isn't as easy as you make it out to be).

    But you got so completely stuck in this conversation, made absolutely terrible comparisons such as "It's like doing Patchwerk with a level 60" and wonderful advices like "If you wipe, just get better players!" that all you're displaying at this point is just your utter absence of the ability to self reflect.
    Yes the comparisons I made are ridiculous. That’s the point of them. Because they use the same logic as yours. Which is ridiculous. That’s the entire point. And I said multiple times now it’s a push over WHEN IN COMPARISON to firefighter, if I somehow forgot to say this after repeating it 10 times in a row then that’s on you for a comprehension problem.

    Also I love how you’re backtracking on the fact that you “never said it was harder” when that’s literally what you have been defending this entire time. Bringing up arguments on how it “could” be considered harder which were seriously dumb arguments. Which is what I tried to show you by giving you equally dumb arguments under the same logic as yours.

    Nice backtrack btw without admitting you were wrong. Really shows your honesty

  14. #74
    As someone who got realm first on all fights when they were current in WotLK:

    Yogg 0 Lights
    Yogg 1 Light
    Lich King
    Mimiron Firefighter
    Yogg 2 Lights
    Anub'Arak
    From there it's a bit harder to recall. Sindragosa and Professor Putridice weren't trivial. Nor was Saurfang. Other Hardmode Keepers were challenging too. Obsidian Sanctum 3D was fairly difficult for the time.

    Faction champions could sometimes be tricky as well. Twins took a bit.

    Naxx was entirely a joke, we downed it week 1 with mainly fresh 80s with a few heroics done each.
    “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.”
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Yes the comparisons I made are ridiculous. That’s the point of them. Because they use the same logic as yours. Which is ridiculous.
    I really feel like this just a another way of saying "i was merely pretending to be stupid".
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Also I love how you’re backtracking on the fact that you “never said it was harder” when that’s literally what you have been defending this entire time. Bringing up arguments on how it “could” be considered harder which were seriously dumb arguments. Which is what I tried to show you by giving you equally dumb arguments under the same logic as yours.
    Because it's the truth, i never denied at one point that Firefighter is a difficult fight.
    I said "this is the hard part about Anub'arak, that's why the boss isn't super easy" and that really seems to have been a trigger for you.

    Completely disregarding the obvious backtracking on your part that you're now pulling "I only made these stupid arguments to show how stupid yours is".
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-07-24 at 06:02 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I really feel like this just a another way of saying "i was merely pretending to be stupid".

    Because it's the truth, i never denied at one point that Firefighter is a difficult fight.
    I said "this is the hard part about Anub'arak, that's why the boss isn't super easy" and that really seems to have been a trigger for you.

    Completely disregarding the obvious backtracking on your part that you're now pulling "I only made these stupid arguments to show how stupid yours is".
    I didn’t back track at all. Did you miss the part where you said my argument was ridiculous and I said “I agree”. That’s the point of it being ridiculous. It uses the same logic as yours. To show you how dumb it is.

    And are you sure you want to say you didn’t say it could be harder? You sure about that?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    As someone who got realm first on all fights when they were current in WotLK:

    Yogg 0 Lights
    Yogg 1 Light
    Lich King
    Mimiron Firefighter
    Yogg 2 Lights
    Anub'Arak
    From there it's a bit harder to recall. Sindragosa and Professor Putridice weren't trivial. Nor was Saurfang. Other Hardmode Keepers were challenging too. Obsidian Sanctum 3D was fairly difficult for the time.

    Faction champions could sometimes be tricky as well. Twins took a bit.

    Naxx was entirely a joke, we downed it week 1 with mainly fresh 80s with a few heroics done each.
    I'd add Knock, Knock, Knock on Wood (Freyas Hard Mode 25 man) to your list. Also, some of the 10 man Heroic raids were not easy.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I didn’t back track at all. Did you miss the part where you said my argument was ridiculous and I said “I agree”.
    ...Saying this multiple posts after the fact is backtracking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    That’s the point of it being ridiculous. It uses the same logic as yours. To show you how dumb it is.
    I would say that a level 60 Tank on Wrath Patchwerk is not in the least compareable with saying "real time boss kills are a bad metric for difficulty", you're free to disgree with M'uru as an example, but that doesn't change the fact that it remains a poor metric.

    And if you still seriously believe that this how you would judge difficulty, then i'm frankly no longer going to argue with you because you don't know jack about how to assess difficulty in WoW.

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