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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I have considered my position quite thoroughly, I did back when I got into playing the AH for the 3 months I was subbed to SL. I'm totally fine with market manipulation in a video game, because it isn't the real world. The consequences are quite literally immaterial, the value of everything is fictitious and the good themselves are also fictitious.

    I get why it is a bad thing in real life, but I don't get why people would be objecting to the principle of it in a video game (aside from it slightly inconveniencing them).
    "It's all, like, a video game, dude," is an exceptionally terrible (and particularly selfish) argument when they're simply trying to improve the QoL of all WoW players.

  2. #22
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I have considered my position quite thoroughly, I did back when I got into playing the AH for the 3 months I was subbed to SL. I'm totally fine with market manipulation in a video game, because it isn't the real world. The consequences are quite literally immaterial, the value of everything is fictitious and the good themselves are also fictitious.

    I get why it is a bad thing in real life, but I don't get why people would be objecting to the principle of it in a video game (aside from it slightly inconveniencing them).
    Because people don't like having to pay hundreds of gold per for something that should only cost 10 or so because someone on their low population server bought out all of the existing ones to artificially raise the price.

    And it's about what the majority of the players like, not about what one guy who wants to make lots of fake pixel currency wants.



    I'm more worried about bots effectively tanking the price of goods because they're now able to, but hopefully the increase in demand can help offset that.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
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  3. #23
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    It becomes practically impossible to manipulate the prices on commodities when the market is going to be so saturated with participants. The abundance of the goods will kill prices, and trying to get your shit sold is going to be even harder when you're competing against hundreds/thousands of other sellers instead of dozens.



    Its almost like a video game isn't real life, and I'd like to enjoy a power fantasy in a video game I play for fun.
    You speak as if the amount of sellers is going up while the amount of buyers is the same. I don't think you know how mergers work.

    You just sound mad that you can't manipulate prices on small servers. Welcome to competition, get rekt.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I have considered my position quite thoroughly, I did back when I got into playing the AH for the 3 months I was subbed to SL. I'm totally fine with market manipulation in a video game, because it isn't the real world. The consequences are quite literally immaterial, the value of everything is fictitious and the good themselves are also fictitious.

    I get why it is a bad thing in real life, but I don't get why people would be objecting to the principle of it in a video game (aside from it slightly inconveniencing them).
    You're literally not supposed to be able to control the AH with a single person is the issue. That's a flaw of smaller servers, not a feature.

    And it's disgusting how easy it is on small servers to buy out literally all of a flask to relist them for 200k each just because they find it funny. And yes, it's happened on several raid nights on my server.

  6. #26
    Brewmaster Flame6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Because people don't like having to pay hundreds of gold per for something that should only cost 10 or so because someone on their low population server bought out all of the existing ones to artificially raise the price.

    And it's about what the majority of the players like, not about what one guy who wants to make lots of fake pixel currency wants.



    I'm more worried about bots effectively tanking the price of goods because they're now able to, but hopefully the increase in demand can help offset that.
    I literally did this for easy gold. Buy up all the weird old world ore of a certain kind, and just sell it for 10x the amount. It took a while but it was an easy way to add a new 0 to my gold balance.

  7. #27
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame6 View Post
    I literally did this for easy gold. Buy up all the weird old world ore of a certain kind, and just sell it for 10x the amount. It took a while but it was an easy way to add a new 0 to my gold balance.
    I farmed 4 million gold in about three months on a single character with not but mining, engineering, and fishing (so actually just mining and fishing) and a few other tactical mat farms back in BFA to get the brutosaur before they removed it. So I'm not totally in the dark about gold making.

    Far more lucrative than flipping entire stocks... in fact, I dare say I made a fair bit of gold off of people speculatively buying my mats trying to flip them (especially things like the primal fire and primal air whose values AH addons say are worth a lot because of their use in niche BC transmog creation but the number of actual purchases to use are very low, causing those who buy them trying to flip them to basically wind up with a bunch of mats nobody actually wants to buy)... would be if people freakin' learned they don't have to undercut by 5 or 10 gold to get their shit bought first anymore. If everyone was just chill and sold for the same amount... everyone would make a lot more. Hopefully having a far higher number of buyers will round off the dips from people who stumble across 10 of some mat and post it for 15g less than everyone else, causing them all to react and undercut.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Far more lucrative than flipping entire stocks... in fact, I dare say I made a fair bit of gold off of people speculatively buying my mats trying to flip them (especially things like the primal fire and primal air whose values AH addons say are worth a lot because of their use in niche BC transmog creation but the number of actual purchases to use are very low, causing those who buy them trying to flip them to basically wind up with a bunch of mats nobody actually wants to buy)... would be if people freakin' learned they don't have to undercut by 5 or 10 gold to get their shit bought first anymore. If everyone was just chill and sold for the same amount... everyone would make a lot more. Hopefully having a far higher number of buyers will round off the dips from people who stumble across 10 of some mat and post it for 15g less than everyone else, causing them all to react and undercut.
    Eh, I'd say undercutting will probably get worse, because the behavior you describe isn't going to change... the the volume of people who do this will increase as they're lumped together versus when the AH's were separate.

    However, I've never been overly upset at people who massively undercut. It's their choice, and it may have nothing to do with maximizing their own profit. If you're short on time and need cash quickly, you can just lowball the price to get it to move quicker (especially if the trade volume for said commodity isn't that high on an average day). In fact, it may be more necessary with how the system works if this is your goal. I've seen people absolutely rage when this happens, usually because it's cutting in to their own profits, and the "we can all make more money together" is just a deflection against the actual reason of "I'm making less money because of you." Early in Shadowlands, I used to do this with low level legendary bases, because I knew that instead of undercutting my prices, the people trying to corner the market would buy them all up... which saved me time in my crafting goals because the items generally didn't move much. I was loaded with millions of gold anyways, so selling at a lower cost to just move my stuff should be a win-win if the non-undercut price is the actual market value... if it's way overpriced, I didn't lose out, only the guy trying to corner the prices did. Had to report some people because I was getting death threat spams from such people; obviously they can't do anything to me, but that kind of behavior is a bit overboard and shouldn't be tolerated.

    This sort of practice is done in real life to some extent, and there's people whose ways of making money revolve around this. Everyone can make money in their own ways, some maximize profit, some maximize time, some have other goals. However, that doesn't mean everyone's price is the same, nor should it be.
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  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Eh, I'd say undercutting will probably get worse, because the behavior you describe isn't going to change... the the volume of people who do this will increase as they're lumped together versus when the AH's were separate.

    However, I've never been overly upset at people who massively undercut. It's their choice, and it may have nothing to do with maximizing their own profit. If you're short on time and need cash quickly, you can just lowball the price to get it to move quicker (especially if the trade volume for said commodity isn't that high on an average day). In fact, it may be more necessary with how the system works if this is your goal. I've seen people absolutely rage when this happens, usually because it's cutting in to their own profits, and the "we can all make more money together" is just a deflection against the actual reason of "I'm making less money because of you." Early in Shadowlands, I used to do this with low level legendary bases, because I knew that instead of undercutting my prices, the people trying to corner the market would buy them all up... which saved me time in my crafting goals because the items generally didn't move much. I was loaded with millions of gold anyways, so selling at a lower cost to just move my stuff should be a win-win if the non-undercut price is the actual market value... if it's way overpriced, I didn't lose out, only the guy trying to corner the prices did. Had to report some people because I was getting death threat spams from such people; obviously they can't do anything to me, but that kind of behavior is a bit overboard and shouldn't be tolerated.

    This sort of practice is done in real life to some extent, and there's people whose ways of making money revolve around this. Everyone can make money in their own ways, some maximize profit, some maximize time, some have other goals. However, that doesn't mean everyone's price is the same, nor should it be.
    In my experience such undercutting didn't really seem to "move product fast."

    And I'm of fair mind that if someone is going to buy something for 50g per, they'd probably have bought it for the 55g per, and a discount of 5g isn't going to make much of a difference in how much people buy but it will affect how much gold people make if they're selling a lot. And it's that sort of cascading downwards effect that would tank mats. Osmenite Ore, for example, could easily fluctuate from 30-60 gold per, and people would buy it- consistently- at any of those prices. When Osmenite would nose dive, I'd sell the n'zoth invasion fish or viperfish from nazjatar and wait for it to stabilize. (Fish also seemed way more consistent in their prices, probably because it's much harder to multibox fishing and... I guess nobody wanted to fish.)

    Hell, you still see people undercutting mats by only 10 or so silver, which is generally not a breakpoint that people look to to say "oh hot damn eternal crystals were selling for 55g 10s yesterday, it's a 55g today BUY EM UP!" But enough people do that... for reasons that I can only assume are because they still think the AH functions the way it did years ago... and the prices drop precipitously, and not because they're doing some sort of 5-D chess where they know that 10 silver is gonna move that much more product.


    I mean once I got my brutosaur I more or less stopped caring about AH farming, because I didn't have anything I wanted to spend gold on. But when I'm offloading Elethium and see the price of it has inexplicably spiraled down to 15g per when the previous day it was 40g per I do
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #30
    I never understood the appeal of letting other players play the game for you.

  11. #31
    Mechagnome Ihazpaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Wow, what an amazingly terrible change for people who actually try to make gold from the AH.
    It's amazingly good change for making botting less useful. Multiboxer bots can't control server AH prices anymore and hopefully material values drop to affordable prices for non p2w/botter players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hopefully blizz also starts banning people who use normal trade chat for boost and p2w spamming. Very good changes finally!

  12. #32
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're literally not supposed to be able to control the AH with a single person is the issue. That's a flaw of smaller servers, not a feature.

    And it's disgusting how easy it is on small servers to buy out literally all of a flask to relist them for 200k each just because they find it funny. And yes, it's happened on several raid nights on my server.
    Shame I wasn't on your server then, cause I would've bought out the flasks, but kept the price within a range that I would reasonably expect people to buy it at. 200k per flask is just being a dick for the sole purpose of being a dick, it isn't what you do if you're actually trying to make gold.

    My goal was to make gold, which meant I had to keep prices within a reasonable range at which I could actually expect to sell stuff in a timely manner. Most expensive stuff I sold when it came to commodities was only at 1800g/unit (epic enchanting mats), the majority of what I sold was between 20g-400g. I'd reset the prices on some of the meats when the price was being dropped below the vendor value of the meat.

    People seem to be assuming I was doing this on a server where I could actually monopolize anything, when in fact I was doing this on US-Area 52 in the first 3 months of SL. There were at least a dozen other people who were engaging in this (and worse), so it actually was a matter of competition.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2022-07-01 at 07:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I have considered my position quite thoroughly, I did back when I got into playing the AH for the 3 months I was subbed to SL. I'm totally fine with market manipulation in a video game, because it isn't the real world. The consequences are quite literally immaterial, the value of everything is fictitious and the good themselves are also fictitious.

    I get why it is a bad thing in real life, but I don't get why people would be objecting to the principle of it in a video game (aside from it slightly inconveniencing them).
    I’m totally fine with crushing market manipulation out a video game, because it isn’t the real world. The consequences are quite literally immaterial, the value of everything is fictitious and the goods themselves are fictitious.

    I get why it annoys people in real life, but I don’t get why like one random dude would be objecting to the principle of it in a video game (aside from it slightly inconveniencing him).

  14. #34
    Good, another step for megaservers. And separate boosting channel is something I suggested for years. If you can't completely remove something, contain it.

  15. #35
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snufflupagus View Post
    I’m totally fine with crushing market manipulation out a video game, because it isn’t the real world. The consequences are quite literally immaterial, the value of everything is fictitious and the goods themselves are fictitious.

    I get why it annoys people in real life, but I don’t get why like one random dude would be objecting to the principle of it in a video game (aside from it slightly inconveniencing him).
    What? You like market manipulation in real life? That is rather abhorrent.

    You can't copy my post and change a couple words, and expect me to not retort within the context and intent of what I said.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2022-07-01 at 08:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  16. #36
    Huh, good changes.
    Neat.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    What? You like market manipulation in real life? That is rather abhorrent.
    You like market manipulation in games but don’t understand why some people would benefit if it were legal? Are you stupid?

  18. #38
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snufflupagus View Post
    You like market manipulation in games but don’t understand why some people would benefit if it were legal? Are you stupid?
    I understand why some people would benefit from market manipulation in real life, I just don't approve of profiting off of actual human suffering and exploitation from an ethical standpoint.

    I can enjoy things like that in a video game precisely because a fictional world is fictional. Just like I can play video games in which the player character can steal or murder; just because it can be done in a video game doesn't mean I'd approve of it in real life.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2022-07-01 at 08:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  19. #39
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Yikes. RIP to low-mid pop server economies.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Yikes. RIP to low-mid pop server economies.
    bruh, what do you mean? this is good. This will bring stable prices to commodities, and farmers on small servers will be able to sell their commodities quickly.

    you are probably one of those people that monopolize commodities and hold them hostage for ridiculous prices just because you have a deep wallet. thats called price gouging.

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