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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Vampiric and Necromantic.
    For example, Remornia is a Dancing Rune Weapon.
    "Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic and home to the forces that were called upon by the Lich King and the Scourge on Azeroth."
    I don't think that quote is accurate. Kel'thuzad's Scourge and the Cult of the Damned were created based on his knowledge of Maldraxxus: they weren't ACTUALLY from there. Hence why the constructs look different, the ziggurats are constructed differently, etc.

    Also, Venthyr are not actually vampiric in any way aside from their aesthetic. There is no use of blood or blood magic. Nathrezim however...

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    "It looks cool"

    -Blizzard
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  3. #43
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Vampiric and Necromantic.
    For example, Remornia is a Dancing Rune Weapon.
    "Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic and home to the forces that were called upon by the Lich King and the Scourge on Azeroth."
    The Venthyr aren't actually "vampiric," they're sadists who punish the condemned - they've got some vampiric aesthetics, sure; but beyond that they neither drink blood nor anima. Remornia is also much more than "Dancing Rune Weapon," it's an artifact-type sword possessing its own sentience, as much a character as its owner Denathrius. Maldraxxus, similarly, is much as I previously said - it's the birthplace of Necromancy and thus the Scourge, and it's much more than just Unholy essence, it actually underpins all the major aesthetic and essential elements of the DK.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I don't think that quote is accurate. Kel'thuzad's Scourge and the Cult of the Damned were created based on his knowledge of Maldraxxus: they weren't ACTUALLY from there. Hence why the constructs look different, the ziggurats are constructed differently, etc.
    Whether it is the Undead creatures or the Necromantic powers is irrelevant. We know it is themed around Unholy.

    Also, Venthyr are not actually vampiric in any way aside from their aesthetic. There is no use of blood or blood magic. Nathrezim however...
    Venthyr are themed around Vampires.
    They have Gargoyles. They drink red anima like blood.
    Castle Nathria is like Dracula's Castle.
    Dreadlords are Vampiric too.
    It couldn't be any more obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The Venthyr aren't actually "vampiric," they're sadists who punish the condemned - they've got some vampiric aesthetics, sure; but beyond that they neither drink blood nor anima.
    It doesn't have to. You get the idea. It's a vampiric zone, with vampriric creatures and customs. Do i need to list all of the inspirations for that place?

    Remornia is also much more than "Dancing Rune Weapon," it's an artifact-type sword possessing its own sentience, as much a character as its owner Denathrius.
    It acts the same. It doesn't have to be 1-1. The resemblance is quite enough. Not to mention all of the blood themes with their anima draining.

    Maldraxxus, similarly, is much as I previously said - it's the birthplace of Necromancy and thus the Scourge, and it's much more than just Unholy essence, it actually underpins all the major aesthetic and essential elements of the DK.
    The Unholy aspect of the Death Knight. Nothing Frost or Blood about it.
    Last edited by username993720; 2022-07-05 at 02:54 PM.

  5. #45
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Domination.
    The Lich King was mentally connected to Jailer, while we, the Death Knights, were mentally connected to the Lich King.
    Mmm.... no, he wasn't.

    And even assuming that the blue eye glow is indeed because of domination magic, for the sake of argument, the argument exists that death knights may use 'domination magic' considering they can assume control of undead creatures, i.e., 'dominate' them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Mmm.... no, he wasn't.
    Yes, he was. We know Arthas managed to resist him and that Bolvar always had this dark voice at the back of his head.

    And even assuming that the blue eye glow is indeed because of domination magic, for the sake of argument, the argument exists that death knights may use 'domination magic' considering they can assume control of undead creatures, i.e., 'dominate' them.
    That means we are the new Lich Kings and Jailers

  7. #47
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    It doesn't have to. You get the idea. It's a vampiric zone, with vampriric creatures and customs. Do i need to list all of the inspirations for that place?
    Looking like Transylvania via Universal Pictures' 1931 production of Dracula is, again, a pretty loose connection. Blood DK's also aren't vampires, either aesthetically or practically, and neither are the Venthyr for that matter. They *can* drink blood, sure; it is one of their abilities (as is expelling Blood as a harmful aura), but they neither require blood for sustenance, fear the sun, nor sleep in the soil of their graves, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    It acts the same. It doesn't have to be 1-1. The resemblance is quite enough. Not to mention all of the blood themes with their anima draining.
    Acts the same in what way? A Dancing Rune Blade mimics a DK's own actions, echoing their attacks for a brief time. Remornia is a fully sentient weapon that performs attacks on its own, is in no way limited, and acts as an independent entity with a distinct personality separate from Denathrius. 1:1 isn't required, but we're more in the area of 50:1 - it's not even close.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    The Unholy aspect of the Death Knight. Nothing Frost or Blood about it.
    The aspects of the Death Knight come from the Scourge, and the Scourge finds its inspiration in Maldraxxus.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  8. #48
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That means we are the new Lich Kings and Jailers
    Nope. It just means, if true, the playable death knights use domination magic. Simple as that.

    What you're doing is saying "warriors use two-handed axes, therefore warriors are the new Garrosh."
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  9. #49
    So did Sylvanas get mind controlled by the Jailor when she became 'good'? She went from red to blue.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Looking like Transylvania via Universal Pictures' 1931 production of Dracula is, again, a pretty loose connection. Blood DK's also aren't vampires, either aesthetically or practically, and neither are the Venthyr for that matter. They *can* drink blood, sure; it is one of their abilities (as is expelling Blood as a harmful aura), but they neither require blood for sustenance, fear the sun, nor sleep in the soil of their graves, etc.
    The only association of this blood is vampirism.
    They don't need to tick all the boxes to be vampires.
    Venthyr disintegrate in the light, drink red anima like blood and hate garlic. They're pretty vampiric if you ask me.
    Blood Death Knights, although not strictly vampiric, fit well with that theme. They're not exactly the blood casters of Blood Trolls or Shadowmoon Orcs.

    Acts the same in what way? A Dancing Rune Blade mimics a DK's own actions, echoing their attacks for a brief time. Remornia is a fully sentient weapon that performs attacks on its own, is in no way limited, and acts as an independent entity with a distinct personality separate from Denathrius. 1:1 isn't required, but we're more in the area of 50:1 - it's not even close.
    They're animated blades. Come on, of course they are based on each other.

    The aspects of the Death Knight come from the Scourge, and the Scourge finds its inspiration in Maldraxxus.
    Only Unholy can be found in Maldraxxus. The Scourge doesn't take Frost or Blood inspiration from Maldraxxus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Nope. It just means, if true, the playable death knights use domination magic. Simple as that.

    What you're doing is saying "warriors use two-handed axes, therefore warriors are the new Garrosh."
    Best Warchief out there.
    *salute*

    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    So did Sylvanas get mind controlled by the Jailor when she became 'good'? She went from red to blue.
    That was her soul. High elves have blue eyes. Not quite the same glow as Death Knights.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Resisting domination doesn't mean the "big guy" isn't trying.
    Arthas was said to have a will of his own, yet he had blue glowing eyes until the end.
    It still doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the domination. That’s what everyone is saying. It’s just an effect of being a DK. Domination does make it happen but not in this case. Arthas had the helm removed and that most likely caused the glow to go away. Same how when Bolvar lost his helm he lost his eye glow.

  12. #52
    The Lightbringer Nathreim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Now that the Jailer is defeated and the Helm of Domination has been broken and reforged, wouldn't Death Knights lose their eye glow?

    It signifies domination. Back when Arthas' helm was removed and he was defeated, he came back to his senses and lost his eye glow. When Anduin returned to his senses, the blue domination eye glow faded away. When Bolvar's helm was removed and so did his eye glow, he pretty much became old Bolvar and less Lich King.

    Wasn't it an indication of their mental connection to the Jailer, or in the case of playable Death Knights, to the Lich King?
    The Jailer didnt create domination magic he merely stole the magic.

    The Death Knight eyes are not the same as the eyes of a Dominated being. In the end cinematic of Sanctum when the Jailer dominates Thrall and co their eyes only glow same with Anduin. Death Knight eyes give off a cold mist or fog while dominated characters don't.

    Death Knights have cold aura around them that was so strong it even shrouded Archerus this is the source of the glow and fog from their eyes.
    Last edited by Nathreim; 2022-07-06 at 04:39 AM.

  13. #53
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Venthyr disintegrate in the light,
    Venthyr don't "disintegrate" in the light. In fight, light itself doesn't do anything to them. However, when they're exposed to the holy Light, then things are different... but they still don't disintegrate. They don't even die from it. They just find it extremely painful, and can drive them mad.

    They're animated blades. Come on, of course they are based on each other.
    Not really? They're both blades, and... that's basically it. Like Aucald explained, that's basically where their similarities end. They're not animated the same, they don't act the same, etc.

    Only Unholy can be found in Maldraxxus. The Scourge doesn't take Frost or Blood inspiration from Maldraxxus.
    Liches from Maldraxxus cast frost magic.

    Best Warchief out there.
    *salute*
    You're avoiding the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbidaggy View Post
    It still doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the domination. That’s what everyone is saying. It’s just an effect of being a DK. Domination does make it happen but not in this case. Arthas had the helm removed and that most likely caused the glow to go away. Same how when Bolvar lost his helm he lost his eye glow.
    Undead minions also have it in cinematics, not just Death Knights. That's because they are under the control of the Lich King.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    The Jailer didnt create domination magic he merely stole the magic.

    The Death Knight eyes are not the same as the eyes of a Dominated being. In the end cinematic of Sanctum when the Jailer dominates Thrall and co their eyes only glow same with Anduin. Death Knight eyes give off a cold mist or fog while dominated characters don't.

    Death Knights have cold aura around them that was so strong it even shrouded Archerus this is the source of the glow and fog from their eyes.
    It's not Frost. The color scheme is similar, but the magic is different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Venthyr don't "disintegrate" in the light. In fight, light itself doesn't do anything to them. However, when they're exposed to the holy Light, then things are different... but they still don't disintegrate. They don't even die from it. They just find it extremely painful, and can drive them mad.
    Have you seen Afterlives: Revendreth?

    Not really? They're both blades, and... that's basically it. Like Aucald explained, that's basically where their similarities end. They're not animated the same, they don't act the same, etc.
    Yes, they do.
    Floating, animated swords associated with vampirism and blood.

    And where exactly in Maldraxxus is it taught to Liches?
    We know Azerothian Liches got it from Nerz'hul, "who granted them control over the furious elements of the cold north."

    You're avoiding the point.
    I guess since we have Undead minions we dominate, the blue glow indicates this mental domination connection.

  15. #55
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Have you seen Afterlives: Revendreth?
    Have you seen that video? Because I have, and it doesn't show a venthyr dying. It just shows one being in intense pain. "Venthyr find exposure to the Light extremely painful. If a venthyr is exposed to the Light for too long, they're driven mad and eventually become an ash ghoul."

    Yes, they do.
    Floating, animated swords associated with vampirism and blood.
    Okay. But that's about it. What you're doing is basically saying a Toyota Corolla and a remote toy car are the same because "both have four wheels, have an engine, and have the same basic shape."

    And where exactly in Maldraxxus is it taught to Liches?
    Ask them? Or Blizzard?

    I guess since we have Undead minions we dominate, the blue glow indicates this mental domination connection.
    Again, it was just an idea. The eye glow is not exactly the same, and might not even be associated with domination magic. It was just one possibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  16. #56
    Banned KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    I really don't get how this conversation (I use that word politely) is still going on. Arguing semantics and circumventing details just further removes the point of the topic.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Undead minions also have it in cinematics, not just Death Knights. That's because they are under the control of the Lich King.



    It's not Frost. The color scheme is similar, but the magic is different.



    Have you seen Afterlives: Revendreth?



    Yes, they do.
    Floating, animated swords associated with vampirism and blood.



    And where exactly in Maldraxxus is it taught to Liches?
    We know Azerothian Liches got it from Nerz'hul, "who granted them control over the furious elements of the cold north."



    I guess since we have Undead minions we dominate, the blue glow indicates this mental domination connection.
    You clearly won’t be happy unless you’re right so guess what. You’re right and everyone else is wrong.

    You can stop arguing against every single person here now with rebuttal after rebuttal when we all say the same thing to you.

    You are right. Their eyes are wrong and shouldn’t be blue anymore. Blizzard don’t know what they are doing

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Have you seen that video? Because I have, and it doesn't show a venthyr dying. It just shows one being in intense pain. "Venthyr find exposure to the Light extremely painful. If a venthyr is exposed to the Light for too long, they're driven mad and eventually become an ash ghoul."
    https://media2.giphy.com/media/sDhKt...iphy.webp&ct=g

    Okay. But that's about it. What you're doing is basically saying a Toyota Corolla and a remote toy car are the same because "both have four wheels, have an engine, and have the same basic shape."
    Sure. One sword is not in the league of the other? Do we summon a mini-sword? Is Dancing Rune Weapon a toy?

    Ask them? Or Blizzard?
    I'm asking you.

    Again, it was just an idea. The eye glow is not exactly the same, and might not even be associated with domination magic. It was just one possibility.
    It is. That's the hallmark of domination.

  19. #59
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Thanks for proving my point. He's suffering. He's in pain. His mind is breaking and going mad. But he is not dying. You would know that if you actually played the game and did the quest lines in Revendreth.

    Sure. One sword is not in the league of the other? Do we summon a mini-sword? Is Dancing Rune Weapon a toy?
    Are you actually avoiding the point, here? The point is that those two swords (Remornia and the DK's Dancing Rune Weapon) are not the same kind. One is a sentient weapon, the other isn't. One acts on its own will, the other doesn't. One is a permanent entity, the other isn't. Etc, etc.

    I'm asking you.
    I'm not the one who designed Maldraxxus nor the one who designed the Maldraxxi liches being able to cast frost spells. I'm merely pointing out the facts.

    It is. That's the hallmark of domination.
    It's not confirmed. All you got is guesswork, without any concrete evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Thanks for proving my point. He's suffering. He's in pain. His mind is breaking and going mad. But he is not dying. You would know that if you actually played the game and did the quest lines in Revendreth.
    I know they turn into ash gouls. In this specific case, he's looking like he's disintegrating. Much like vampires and sunlight.

    Are you actually avoiding the point, here? The point is that those two swords (Remornia and the DK's Dancing Rune Weapon) are not the same kind. One is a sentient weapon, the other isn't. One acts on its own will, the other doesn't. One is a permanent entity, the other isn't. Etc, etc.
    Then, name your weapon. It still imitates your attacks on its own.
    Thing is, of course major characters' weapons are gonna be more significant than some class ability. Doesn't mean it's not a play on the ability.

    I'm not the one who designed Maldraxxus nor the one who designed the Maldraxxi liches being able to cast frost spells. I'm merely pointing out the facts.
    If you do this, i expect you to explain the reasoning behind it.

    It's not confirmed. All you got is guesswork, without any concrete evidence.
    All of the blue glow throughout the WotLK cinematic? The Jailer dominating others, like Anduin?
    Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination are literally vessels of domination.

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