Poll: What kind of RTS would you like to see?

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  1. #1

    WarCraft 4: let's pretend

    The Scene: You check mmochamp, twitter, your google feed or wherever the heck you get this kind of news from, and there it is. WarCraft 4, a bright shiny new logo. It's legit, not a fan thing, Blizzard is actually making a WarCraft 4 RTS.

    Let's also pretend that you have not lost faith in Blizzards ability to create an RTS (or any game) that you like. Really try and root yourself firmly in the realm of fiction for this one- it's the WarCraft 4 of your dreams.

    What does that dream look like? What would YOU want a WarCraft 4 RTS to be? What kinds of gameplay would you want to see? Do you prefer the WC3 formula with smaller armies, more individual unit abilities and heroes? Or perhaps you prefer the SC2 formula with large armies and zero to limited hero units? How about lorewise? Would you want the story to take place during the timeline established in WoW? (For example, missions of you commanding the armies assaulting the black temple) or would you want new stories? Within the WoW canon? Or maybe an entirely separate canon/timeline?

    For me, I'd prefer a bit of a mix in formula, with some new stuff. I like heroes in the campaign, but for multiplayer I'd rather just manage armies, or have a map toggle to enable/disable heroes for games. I would want the unit cap increased regardless, maybe not to the level of SC2, but certainly higher than WC3.

    Lore wise is trickier for me, on the one hand I would prefer it stay within the main canon. Using the RTS as a way to build up new characters for for the story. At the same time, having the RTS go off in its own direction could be an interesting take, and wouldn't necessitate each race joining either horde or alliance for gameplay.

    Alternatively, scrapping both formulas entirely, and doing something new for Warcraft could be fun. Ever play C&C Renegade, Natural Selection, or Giants: Citizen Kabuto? 3rd person base building/RTS? That could be neat.

    ("I want something 100% new, not warcraft or starcraft or even diablo. Completely new." Is also a valid response for this. If you're in this camp, focus on mechanics, what kind of RTS would you want to see?)


    (Whoops, sorry mods. Thanks for moving!)
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2022-07-01 at 04:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  2. #2
    Wc3 was good as it was.

    Wc3 with better graphics and maybe upgraded Editor would've been The Goose that Lays the Golden Eggs. But it seem that Blizzard is too stupid to actually do it properly.

  3. #3
    Aye, I agree WC3 was good as is. I'm not sure a WC4 following the exact same formula would necessarily have the same success though, that is outside of the community of course. I tried to omit the community from my examples mostly because thats sort of a pandoras box. Damn map makers spawned entire genres of game lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  4. #4
    Keep traditional WC3 mechanics with only a few differences. I'd scale the buildings more realistically to the units because I always found it a bit silly that about any unit is about the same height as a building. I would reduce the time to build both buildings and units for a slightly faster gameplay experience, mostly because in the campaign it can drag a bit if you wait that long just to build up a new base after every mission. I would also keep the heroes and maybe expand on their abilities (which would be a pain to balance). For example if you pick a far seer, you have to choose if he goes elemental, enhancement or restoration and they get their own kit that serves different purposes.

    Also I love the idea to add way more new playable races (again a pain to balance). Allow dwarves, blood elves, trolls, tauren etc to have their own tech tree. Maybe try something like how C&C3: Kane's Wrath did sub-factions, which would give you several benefits if you choose a certain sub-race. For example if you pick orcs in multiplayer and as a sub-faction you choose trolls, you would gain acces to some new troll units and also your regular troll units would be slightly stronger. Maybe even have its own unique troll hero aswell.

    As for the lore it should take place between WC3 and WoW which should mostly cover why the night elves join the Alliance and Forsaken join the Horde. It can also have a Scourge campaign with Kel'Thuzad taking control of Naxxramas and plague'ing most of Lordaeron by the time WoW starts, maybe dealing with the remaining Burning Legion aswell. Start with the classic human/undead/orc/night elf campaigns and if an expansion were to be a thing I'd love them to do more of the other factions like blood elves and naga.

  5. #5
    Why not multiple answers?
    I'd like a semi-squad based rpg/rts hybrid where you lead as a "hero" unit and can control/command/the rest (abit like Dragon Age: Origins), though i am also of the opinion that a unit has no reason to exist if it is not distinct.
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    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Why not multiple answers?
    I'd like a semi-squad based rpg/rts hybrid where you lead as a "hero" unit and can control/command/the rest (abit like Dragon Age: Origins), though i am also of the opinion that a unit has no reason to exist if it is not distinct.
    Because I forgot to click that option and don't see a way to edit it mostly. =( Would be better to allow multiple choices.

    You mean something like Xcom? Or, what was it Company of heroes? The RTS where you had a set point pool that replensihed over time but only supported a set amount of units, with higher end units taking more of the pool? Not much base building. but more about managing your squad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Keep traditional WC3 mechanics with only a few differences. I'd scale the buildings more realistically to the units because I always found it a bit silly that about any unit is about the same height as a building. I would reduce the time to build both buildings and units for a slightly faster gameplay experience, mostly because in the campaign it can drag a bit if you wait that long just to build up a new base after every mission. I would also keep the heroes and maybe expand on their abilities (which would be a pain to balance). For example if you pick a far seer, you have to choose if he goes elemental, enhancement or restoration and they get their own kit that serves different purposes.

    Also I love the idea to add way more new playable races (again a pain to balance). Allow dwarves, blood elves, trolls, tauren etc to have their own tech tree. Maybe try something like how C&C3: Kane's Wrath did sub-factions, which would give you several benefits if you choose a certain sub-race. For example if you pick orcs in multiplayer and as a sub-faction you choose trolls, you would gain acces to some new troll units and also your regular troll units would be slightly stronger. Maybe even have its own unique troll hero aswell.

    As for the lore it should take place between WC3 and WoW which should mostly cover why the night elves join the Alliance and Forsaken join the Horde. It can also have a Scourge campaign with Kel'Thuzad taking control of Naxxramas and plague'ing most of Lordaeron by the time WoW starts, maybe dealing with the remaining Burning Legion aswell. Start with the classic human/undead/orc/night elf campaigns and if an expansion were to be a thing I'd love them to do more of the other factions like blood elves and naga.
    Having more races was one of my favorite bits about TFT, playing as naga and blood elves was fun. Community took it even further, so many custom races in those games. Freeing up the races would open up a lot more story possibilities too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  7. #7
    I voted for WC3 mechanics, option 1.

    However it should be noted Warcraft 4 should not be made by Blizzard. For the love of baby Jesus, Iron Man, and Tom Cruise, do not allow this to fucking happen.

    It would literally come out tomm, be reskin WC3, everything the same, but instead of Arthas it would be sum dumb dik like The Jailor, only for a visual bug to happen and his arm is missing or some shit then follow by repeated crashes to desktop every 10 mins.

  8. #8
    TotalWar Warcraft in the same vein as Total War Warhammer would be cool...
    Then again, it would probably be the exact same thing tbh. Since Warcraft is the left overs from a warhammer fantasy IP Blizzard didn't get the rights to. Still think it would be cool.

    And tbh, Creative Assembly requires more competition in the total war style of games. They can basically do anything since they are the only ones doing these kind of games afaik.

  9. #9
    Its already happening, its just called Stormgate and is in a different universe, but from the same developers. As to what i want from it, basically what we're getting: that it has good, supportable and longer lasting Campaign and Co-Op modes.

  10. #10
    Are RTS still a thing? I guess they still do SC2 tournaments?

    RTS to me are just boring and seem primitive - compared to more evolved tactical games like War Game: Red Dragon or grand strategy games like Europa Universalis IV.
    My nickname is "LDEV", not "idev". (both font clarification and ez bait)

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    TotalWar Warcraft in the same vein as Total War Warhammer would be cool...
    Then again, it would probably be the exact same thing tbh. Since Warcraft is the left overs from a warhammer fantasy IP Blizzard didn't get the rights to. Still think it would be cool.

    And tbh, Creative Assembly requires more competition in the total war style of games. They can basically do anything since they are the only ones doing these kind of games afaik.
    Holy crap how could I not include a Total War style game, that would be awesome!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    Are RTS still a thing? I guess they still do SC2 tournaments?

    RTS to me are just boring and seem primitive - compared to more evolved tactical games like War Game: Red Dragon or grand strategy games like Europa Universalis IV.
    Not really, from what I've seen. That's sort of why I wanted to make this thread, or partly anyway. RTS seems to either be dead or dying, and it sucks
    =(

    Just finished playing through the C&C remake, those were the days. Then i tried to play red alert 2 and the damn thing won't even run on my machine now.

    grand strategy is a lot of fun, but I think there's still a place for modern RTS in todays market. different strokes and all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  12. #12
    Over 9000! Kathranis's Avatar
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    So, random ideas straight off the dome:

    Gameplay: Maintains the WC3 combination of RTS base building and troop command with controllable heroes, but with more detailed and realistic terrain, with maps having actual level design, verticality, etc. When you take control of a hero unit, it drops back into a third person view and looks more like an open world action game, with the ability to traverse and explore the map with light platforming. Troop formations can follow you, Dynasty Warriors style, but some sections of the map may require you and your hero units to go in alone. Hero controls more in a MOBA / character action style. You switch freely between commander mode and set things up so it sort of auto-pilots, and hero mode to explore or jump into the fray and turn the tide of battle.

    Story: Timeskip well beyond the current era of WoW. The "Era of Chaos" ended 40 years ago when the Final Titan, Azeroth, drove the cosmic forces of the universe out of the mortal realm and fell into hibernation. For the last four decades, the kingdoms of Azeroth have prospered in an "Era of Peace." The world has been rebuilt, but remains medieval with only minimal technological development. At most, there is some "Age of Exploration" stuff going on as cultures explore the farthest reaches of Azeroth.

    Our current heroes are now the elders, and a new generation is rising to power. With them comes new political alliances and rivalries. There's an emphasis on smaller scale conflicts over territory, succession, etc., with some darker threats lurking in the shadows and at the edges of the mortal realm.

    It's not really about Horde vs Alliance anymore, but, things like Anduin's two sons vying for control of the Kingdom of Stormwind or Dagran II struggling to keep the dwarven clans unified without a common enemy. The broad alliances have largely fallen away, with numerous smaller factions forming, even crossing old faction lines. A much more complex world where race doesn't dictate a character's allegiance.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    Its already happening, its just called Stormgate and is in a different universe, but from the same developers. As to what i want from it, basically what we're getting: that it has good, supportable and longer lasting Campaign and Co-Op modes.
    I saw that, but what little I saw seemed like it was heavily emphasizing the co-op aspect. Not too much info out yet but I'm excited for it. Hope its not purely co-op though, I liked how in Red Alert 3 you could play the campaign co-op or with a bot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  14. #14
    I like starcraft more, but in sc2 there are way to many units with abillitys and i really disliked that they killed the early game.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    So, random ideas straight off the dome:

    Gameplay: Maintains the WC3 combination of RTS base building and troop command with controllable heroes, but with more detailed and realistic terrain, with maps having actual level design, verticality, etc. When you take control of a hero unit, it drops back into a third person view and looks more like an open world action game, with the ability to traverse and explore the map with light platforming. Troop formations can follow you, Dynasty Warriors style, but some sections of the map may require you and your hero units to go in alone. Hero controls more in a MOBA / character action style. You switch freely between commander mode and set things up so it sort of auto-pilots, and hero mode to explore or jump into the fray and turn the tide of battle.

    Story: Timeskip well beyond the current era of WoW. The "Era of Chaos" ended 40 years ago when the Final Titan, Azeroth, drove the cosmic forces of the universe out of the mortal realm and fell into hibernation. For the last four decades, the kingdoms of Azeroth have prospered in an "Era of Peace." The world has been rebuilt, but remains medieval with only minimal technological development. At most, there is some "Age of Exploration" stuff going on as cultures explore the farthest reaches of Azeroth.

    Our current heroes are now the elders, and a new generation is rising to power. With them comes new political alliances and rivalries. There's an emphasis on smaller scale conflicts over territory, succession, etc., with some darker threats lurking in the shadows and at the edges of the mortal realm.

    It's not really about Horde vs Alliance anymore, but, things like Anduin's two sons vying for control of the Kingdom of Stormwind or Dagran II struggling to keep the dwarven clans unified without a common enemy. The broad alliances have largely fallen away, with numerous smaller factions forming, even crossing old faction lines. A much more complex world where race doesn't dictate a character's allegiance.
    I like these ideas, particularly the hybrid RTS beat 'em up style. I loved Battlezone (ollllld arse game, could control indiviudal units, squads would follow you, similar to how you described with setting up the base, it was all 3rd person though). I'd do things for that kind of perspective. Though now you got me imagining just a regular beat em dynasty series game with an Azeroth skin which sounds.....pretty damn fun on its own lol Add in commander mode and I'd play the heck out of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Holy crap how could I not include a Total War style game, that would be awesome!
    I actually thinko Blizzard would be able to do a good job with it. Since most of the issues with Total War is optimization and janky unit controls, which Blizzard, despite all the memes, are quite good at.


    Maybe the world map and faction mechanics might be eh, but combat would probably be good.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-07-01 at 04:59 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Because I forgot to click that option and don't see a way to edit it mostly. =( Would be better to allow multiple choices.

    You mean something like Xcom? Or, what was it Company of heroes? The RTS where you had a set point pool that replensihed over time but only supported a set amount of units, with higher end units taking more of the pool? Not much base building. but more about managing your squad.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Having more races was one of my favorite bits about TFT, playing as naga and blood elves was fun. Community took it even further, so many custom races in those games. Freeing up the races would open up a lot more story possibilities too.
    A bit like xcom yeah, haven't played that other one though.
    Think of it like managing a hero plus a single filled out army in warcraft 3, but you also get some help in the form of being able to somewhat tweak their AI to your liking.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  18. #18
    Not that I wouldn't like to see Warcraft 4 in the Warcraft 3 style, but a warcraft game in the vein of Kingdom Under Fire Crusaders or Heroes would be pretty cool.
    A combination of the two with base building, resource gathering, etc.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    I saw that, but what little I saw seemed like it was heavily emphasizing the co-op aspect. Not too much info out yet but I'm excited for it. Hope its not purely co-op though, I liked how in Red Alert 3 you could play the campaign co-op or with a bot.
    Its not just co op. It will have solo campaign and 1vs1 ladder. They just give more options because sc2 co op proved much more popular than anticipated (despite game population being small).

  20. #20
    When i firstly played WC3 when it was firstly realeased i was already a veteran in the RTS genre, having played all AoE, Red Alert and various others that i cannot reacall now. It was mind blowing that i had a hero unit with abilitites and on top of that many of my units had either passive attributes or active ones, honestly it was insane.

    Therefore, i would like this to be unchanged. I would only add that you could lvl up units as well but with the twist of perma death, where if that unit dies you lose it permanently and you cannot ressurect it in your altar as you do with your hero, i think it would be cool to have such units when playing ladder.

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