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  1. #41
    The game is just too complex on how everything is connected. Keeping order halls/garrisons/etc. going means you need to make sure they are compatible and fit with the new stuff thats coming and everything that still exists.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Class order halls were yet another halfbaked concept. A lot of the order halls were disappointing and didn't deliver on class fantasy. For example, shoving Sunwalkers and Blood Knights into the Silver Hand's basement was bullocks. Rogues didn't get to go back to Ravenholdt. Warriors got sent to... a Titan facility (???). Death Knights got screwed with Archerus, which didn't even get HD textures. Once your order moved into the hall, nothing changed. It didn't expand or renovate. It remained static from beginning to end, just with a few more NPCs shoved in there who you never talked to. There should have been minigames put into the class order halls.
    Agreed. But the joy was seeing everyone of the same class together in their hall. Garrisons didn't offer that and Covenant didn't have sufficient affinity amongst the players.

    I'm hoping for Covenants to become more prevalent such that players feel that same brotherhood they felt amongst their class peers.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    As much as I despise the facebook game, it wasn't the problem with WoD. The lack of actual content was the problem. Unless you were into raidlogging, there was literally nothing to do in WoD. So the facebook game became the thing to do by default, because WoW players are addicts who were habituated to log in every day and play WoW.
    Well on launch in 6.0, the entire WORLD of AU-Draenor was set up like a theme park in "Timeless Isle" style, with rares and notable loot from them, plus the glider system to reach many of them. Unfortunately, by spreading the Timeless Isle concept over such a huge area, it actually made it anti-social so it sucked.

    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/explo...ion-in-nagrand
    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/explo...spires-of-arak
    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/explo...rostfire-ridge


    6.1 was a bust. Mostly it just enhanced the Garrisons.

    6.2 added Tanaan Jungle, which is the traditional compact Timeless Isle style of theme park. Theyve stuck with that ever since.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  4. #44
    My biggest gripe with Garrisons was that they were character specific. I abused tf out of them to make gold but it meant that all characters were just parked at the mission table and I logged through them too much.

    IMO it would be better if a garrison were account specific but every character could contribute to it. So it wouldn't matter which or how many characters you played. Switch your main and instead of doing it all again you could pick up right were your last character left.

  5. #45
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Garrisons as optional "build your own base" minigame? Sounds cool even if i am not that interested in that.

    Garrison with actual gameplay mechanichs tied to endgame? No thanks. I am happy that DF is scrapping all the minigames bullshit that's basically an attunement for the endgame.

    More things in game are good. More things in game stacked up as progressive steps to the endgame are shit.
    Agree 100%. A base-building game could give you some cool stuff like mats perhaps (most to be used for the base itself) but the "progression" system would be toward progressing the base. Rewards would need to go there instead of being some sub-system of M+/Raiding. Thinking that rewards would work something like pet battles. Game-within-a-game.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  6. #46
    sadly they hyped them up and cut to much from there causing a huge negative reaction to them.... I'm afraid its why we don't have housing yet I liked mine though and loved the concept.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Garrisons as optional "build your own base" minigame? Sounds cool even if i am not that interested in that.

    Garrison with actual gameplay mechanichs tied to endgame? No thanks. I am happy that DF is scrapping all the minigames bullshit that's basically an attunement for the endgame.

    More things in game are good. More things in game stacked up as progressive steps to the endgame are shit.
    thats really not the problem. the problem is that garrisons arent social. there are 329423749237423947 options for solo play in video games. so you are competing with all of them. ultimately what happens is that people look and say "do i want to pay $15 per month to do garrisons, or play one of the multitude of fun, free solo games out there?"

    the lifeblood of wow is the social scene. there was really nothing like it out there. without it, people drift away.

    you say people want housing. i say if wow offers people housing, players will just log off and play vampire survivors by themselves or something. wow cannot compete in that arena.
    Last edited by Kokolums; 2022-07-03 at 10:23 PM.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Order halls were way more fun than Garrisons. And the Covenant halls were acceptable, though a bit rushed.
    With a bit of care, Azeroth based covenant halls would be the most satisfying way to handle this.
    I also liked orderhalls.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Order halls were way more fun than Garrisons. And the Covenant halls were acceptable, though a bit rushed.
    With a bit of care, Azeroth based covenant halls would be the most satisfying way to handle this.
    the playerbase disagrees. Legion actually had LESS players than WoD. Legion was a massive failure. It had its backers for sure, but overall, people continued to leave under Legion.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  10. #50
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Garrisons were an initially good idea that got drastically watered down.

    They were supposed to be proper player housing (i.e. *highly* customizable). You were supposed to be able to create a garrison in any of the WoD zones.

    Blizz gave up on them long before WoD was released. Blizz was already slowly cutting costs on expansions by WoD, but they went even cheaper on WoD...and Blizz isn't interested in putting in the effort needed for real player housing anymore...even if it was to leverage the garrison assets.

  11. #51
    I truly believe wow just isn’t the game for it. It’s not fun.

    People always say blizzard messed up or they didn’t commit to it, and I completely disagree. I don’t think if they added all the things people wanted it would make it any better (more customizations like chairs and shit).

    The issue with it is that garrisons were TOO good. You could and did do everything from them. Christ you could even farm in them. So 90% of wod was spent inside your garrison. Which is hilarious because if any expansion needed this feature it was wod because that expansion had nothing really to offer outside of your garrison and it was still terrible. Garrisons just aren’t fun.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Agree 100%. A base-building game could give you some cool stuff like mats perhaps (most to be used for the base itself) but the "progression" system would be toward progressing the base. Rewards would need to go there instead of being some sub-system of M+/Raiding. Thinking that rewards would work something like pet battles. Game-within-a-game.
    Exactly. The only real good system they added excluding m+ is pet battles. Content there fkr everyone, optional and self contained

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    thats really not the problem. the problem is that garrisons arent social. there are 329423749237423947 options for solo play in video games. so you are competing with all of them. ultimately what happens is that people look and say "do i want to pay $15 per month to do garrisons, or play one of the multitude of fun, free solo games out there?"

    the lifeblood of wow is the social scene. there was really nothing like it out there. without it, people drift away.

    you say people want housing. i say if wow offers people housing, players will just log off and play vampire survivors by themselves or something. wow cannot compete in that arena.
    I agree it was, but actually it's no more. With M+ the game changed into a lobby game and no one really cares about the social aspects because you just queue with random people you won't ever see again.

    I don't really want housing. Just think it could be a fun minigame for people who's interested in it, and has to no have any tie in with endgame otherwise people will be "forced" to partake in it.

    It could be made also social. In Wildstar housing was great not only because it was powerful as a tool, but because you could create actual platforming challenges or puzzle to solve that gave you real rewards and it literally became content. I don't want something like this in wow but if Blizzard wanted it, there are wais to make it work well.
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  13. #53
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
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    Garrisons as well as its evolution into Class Halls should never have been dropped. I'd rather have had them remain as an aside/optional feature throughout Bfa and SL, even if in an utterly barren state and/or disconnected from the narrative/theme of the current patch or xpac. I genuinely want one or the other to triumphantly return to serve as a core tenant of a future xpac or major patch, but during this gap of irrelevance I'd have preferred for either/both to have minimally been updated to reflect any pertinent events that transpired. Simply adding some fresh flavour text to the class hall and/or garrison npcs would satisfy me. I'd prefer getting new missions and quests, new npcs in addition to or as replacements for those from WoD and Legion, new cosmetics and toys, and to finally have the option to relocate your garrison regardless of how extensive the options are.

    I just really want the world to actually reflect the current times outside of the core zones of the patch, preferably to some extent across the whole of Azeroth and perhaps Draenor and Argus as well. I have nearly zero faith that this will happen to any more than a couple zones across any expansion, or ever extend to class halls and beyond, but if it ever did my passion for Warcraft would assuredly reignite a good bit.

  14. #54
    I liked Garrison so much. It was really fun and it kept me in the game for hours. Their future analogs didn't feel like home to me.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Maybe because it was EXTREMELY poorly received, and to this day is noted by many WoD haters as one of the worst parts of their least favorite expansions. This is rose tinted glasses to the highest degree - the garrisons were absolutely hated, and people didnt hold back expressing their opinions. Now that obviously slowed as the haters finally moved to "acceptance", and the expansion progressed, but surely noone would try and pretend it wasnt one of the most hated parts of one of the most disliked expansions.

    Now to be fair, V2 may have, and probably would have been far, FAR better. But the announcement would go down about as well as Diablo Immortal.
    To be fair, not a single player I'm playing WoW with "hated" the garrison or spoke poorly of it like you made it look like just now.
    To this day, I have no idea why the "public" (lel) even disliked it, it was the best non raid feature of the whole expansion - of all expansions.
    It's better than the order hall and better than the covenants.

    The only gripe I have with it is that it was "done" relatively early and then you'd send out stuff on your mission table every single day, there wasn't even anything else to actually "dislike" there.
    The exact feature that is still happening and coming back every single expansion. That's the stuff people mention that they hate about garrisons, and it's the *only* thing Blizzard still implements in every single expansion post WoD. The Mission table.

    No one "hated" building the garrisson - or designing it.
    The fact that it is so mission table focused is the problem. But we still have that thing even today... it's not what people want when they say "I want my to build my garrison" though.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-07-08 at 12:10 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    To be fair, not a single player I'm playing WoW with "hated" the garrison or spoke poorly of it like you made it look like just now.
    To this day, I have no idea why the "public" (lel) even disliked it, it was the best non raid feature of the whole expansion - of all expansions.
    It's better than the order hall and better than the covenants.

    The only gripe I have with it is that it was "done" relatively early and then you'd send out stuff on your mission table every single day, there wasn't even anything else to actually "dislike" there.
    The exact feature that is still happening and coming back every single expansion. That's the stuff people mention that they hate about garrisons, and it's the *only* thing Blizzard still implements in every single expansion post WoD. The Mission table.

    No one "hated" building the garrisson - or designing it.
    The fact that it is so mission table focused is the problem. But we still have that thing even today... it's not what people want when they say "I want my to build my garrison" though.
    Garrison hatred is well documented, at the time, and still to this day. "my friends say they like it, trust me bro" isn't a counter argument. It under delivered in every way. It was a daily chore that people felt they had to complete on every alt they had. It took players out of the world, further isolating them. It caused insane levels of inflation, due to being a money printing machine.

    The rest is a strawman - I never said people hated "designing and building" their garrison, because you didn't design or build your garrison - you had 1, maybe 2 choices and just left clicked.

    I should also advise you avoid saying "no one" hated XYZ, as it's impossible for you to know such a thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ABK Morgan View Post
    NGL if they added in a Garrison system where you could place it in certain spots on Azeroth and have race themed buildings, Dwarven/Troll and such, give us pretty much all the buildings available in the current garrisons, i would actually rather enjoy it. They could easily use it for current expansions as it wouldn't need to be updated much for each expansion i.e adding it into one of the new zones, as its already situated. They could use it as our characters "house/base of operations" in future expansions as a RP element and as a literal base, our characters have defeated how many threats now, would be nice for our accomplishments to be recognized in game, kind of like a Heritage armor tie in, "Tauren you have embraced everything that it means to be Tauren, here, as a thank you for all you've done, we offer this land as reward".

    It could be used for story tie ins, Anduin has been yeeted through a hole in the sky again, so Mathias Shaw tracks down the hero at their base to seek aid. It could even be used as a way to more directly involve our characters, assassins could be sent to take us out at our base to prevent us aiding such and such, which could be played out in game. We could have all the decoration type elements from Garrisons, some achievement tie ins, you killed Mythic Jailer (....yeah) here is a banner or statue to show off.

    The point is, it could serve as player housing, but also be future proof. Rather than make a new system for an expansion, then never see it again, it would be a more permanent feature.

    Any thoughts ?
    I absolutely adored the advertised form of garrisons and I didn't necessarily hate the version we got. I'd love a piece of azeroth to call my own, though I agree it shouldn't generate resources, have portals (maybe one to org/sw but then again I think every capital should have a portal room), and certainly not an auction house.

    I don't mind the mission table, I liked leveling up my army of minions and gearing them out. It was fun. I still remember Vivienne, wonder what she's doing these days. I wish they'd bring back those characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I should also advise you avoid saying "no one" hated XYZ, as it's impossible for you to know such a thing.
    Watch me care, lol.

    If someone "hated" that, I don't know why the fuck he is even playing video games if something so minor triggers him.
    I have no idea why you think some random internet strangers that disliked it are somehow more important or even more frequent than the random internet strangers that liked it.

    It *is* an actual counter argument.
    An unknown number of players disliked it, an unknown number of players liked it.
    At the very least, I'm not far off to assume that most people liked the idea behind the garrison itself. That it turned into a mission table is not what this thread is about, because we do have that atm. The garrison idea =/= mission table - you seem to be confusing that, otherwise this whole thread wouldn't make sense.
    The OP talked about player housing, and that is what the garrison could've provided properly.

    Stuff like "it kept people away from the open world" are non-issues, because these can be fixed easily... it doesn't even take a second to realize that daily quests and events outside the garrison would be a thing now. It has been in Legion as well - same deal. You just get to design your own little area along with it where you can do actual stuff in as well. (defending against an invasion, designing troops, bodyguard training, open world bonuses from buildings, yada yada etc. etc.)
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-07-08 at 10:25 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    An unknown number of players disliked it, an unknown number of player liked it.
    At the very least, I'm not far off to assume that most people liked the idea behind the garrison.
    Classic. "an unknown number disliked, and an unknown number liked it, but im just going to go ahead and assume most people liked it, without anything whatsoever to support it, just because it lines up with the narrative of them being liked".

    The ultimate proof that they were NOT popular is that Blizzard did not continue the system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Classic. "an unknown number disliked, and an unknown number liked it, but im just going to go ahead and assume most people liked it, without anything whatsoever to support it, just because it lines up with the narrative of them being liked".

    The ultimate proof that they were NOT popular is that Blizzard did not continue the system.
    Do you have anything to support YOUR point of view? Any reasonable data? Or just forum goers being angry at something talking about stuff they don't like? If you don't, don't bother mentioning it. It's anecdotal.
    I just gave you the same reasoning you have and you think *I'm* pushing the narrative here? Jeez....

    and yes... "ultimate proof" sure...
    It's not like Blizzard pushes something, then doesn't anymore, and then does again, and then doesn't.
    Oh look, talent trees. Obviously they were "hated" - away with them!
    Oh now they are back - surpriiiise....

    There are way more possible reasons for them to discontinue this than you are thinking about. Not everything is related to what players liked or disliked. It's pretty likely that with garrison, the reason it's discontinued could be something as simple as performance issues.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-07-08 at 10:38 PM.

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