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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Classic. "an unknown number disliked, and an unknown number liked it, but im just going to go ahead and assume most people liked it, without anything whatsoever to support it, just because it lines up with the narrative of them being liked".

    The ultimate proof that they were NOT popular is that Blizzard did not continue the system.
    Do you have anything to support YOUR point of view? Any reasonable data? Or just forum goers being angry at something talking about stuff they don't like? If you don't, don't bother mentioning it. It's anecdotal.
    I just gave you the same reasoning you have and you think *I'm* pushing the narrative here? Jeez....

    and yes... "ultimate proof" sure...
    It's not like Blizzard pushes something, then doesn't anymore, and then does again, and then doesn't.
    Oh look, talent trees. Obviously they were "hated" - away with them!
    Oh now they are back - surpriiiise....

    There are way more possible reasons for them to discontinue this than you are thinking about. Not everything is related to what players liked or disliked. It's pretty likely that with garrison, the reason it's discontinued could be something as simple as performance issues.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-07-08 at 10:38 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Do you have anything to support YOUR point of view? Any reasonable data? Or just forum goers being angry at something talking about stuff they don't like? If you don't, don't bother mentioning it. It's anecdotal.
    I just gave you the same reasoning you have and you think *I'm* pushing the narrative here? Jeez....

    and yes... "ultimate proof" sure...
    It's not like Blizzard pushes something, then doesn't anymore, and then does again, and then doesn't.
    Oh look, talent trees. Obviously they were "hated" - away with them!
    Oh now they are back - surpriiiise....

    There are way more possible reasons for them to discontinue this than you are thinking about. Not everything is related to what players liked or disliked. It's pretty likely that with garrison, the reason it's discontinued could be something as simple as performance issues.
    Man you really are on another level. So you get upset that i cant "prove" that Garrisons were not a popular feature, especially considering the resources required to make them (they cost us a raid tier). You then go on to claim, without anything to support it, that it "could" have been because of performance. Who on earth thinks THAT is an argument?

    You have made the claim that garrisons were popular - support it with something. I have made the claim they were not, and my evidence is simple - they were not continued. What evidence do you have to support your claim that they were popular, as you have claimed "most people liked them". What do you have to support ANY of the claims you are making?

    Blizzard have publicly stated they cost an entire raid tier, and people were not happy that it pulled players out of the world and made it feel like a lobby game. Your counter argument is "me and my friends liked them, therefore most people liked them, it could have just been a performance problem". Like who uses this "logic"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  3. #63
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Maybe because it was EXTREMELY poorly received, and to this day is noted by many WoD haters as one of the worst parts of their least favorite expansions.
    Garrisons were received reasonably well at first. Once they were built, which didn't take all that long, and people realized that pretty much that was it, opinions changed. Garrisons should have been set up (like other base building games) as something that you could never "finish" as such. That's where Blizzard messed it up as far as I'm concerned. They were a great idea, poorly implemented and in the end, less than what was genuinely promised.

    See my comments elsewhere in this thread about how garrisons should be the foundation for a true base-building game within the MMO.

    Further comment: Blizzard has been very honest about why they only do expansion-specific features and it has little to do with popularity. Given how many years they plan in advance this makes sense. It has more to do with their unwillingness to support ongoing features in future expansions. I think this is a mistake and apparently Blizzard has rethought this a bit. They've backed away somewhat from single-expansion features but how that will work out remains to be seen. The problem to me is that despite Blizzard's constant blathering about how they iterate on features to improve them over the long run they have largely stopped doing that over the last several expansions. That idea seems to have gone into the bin along with "we'll ship it when it's ready" and much else.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-07-08 at 11:59 PM.
    Most people judge because thinking is hard.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Garrisons were received reasonably well at first. Once they were built, which didn't take all that long, and people realized that pretty much that was it, opinions changed. Garrisons should have been set up (like other base building games) as something that you could never "finish" as such. That's where Blizzard messed it up as far as I'm concerned. They were a great idea, poorly implemented and in the end, less than what was genuinely promised.

    See my comments elsewhere in this thread about how garrisons should be the foundation for a true base-building game within the MMO.

    Further comment: Blizzard has been very honest about why they only do expansion-specific features and it has little to do with popularity. Given how many years they plan in advance this makes sense. It has more to do with their unwillingness to support ongoing features in future expansions. I think this is a mistake and apparently Blizzard has rethought this a bit. They've backed away somewhat from single-expansion features but how that will work out remains to be seen. The problem to me is that despite Blizzard's constant blathering about how they iterate on features to improve them over the long run they have largely stopped doing that over the last several expansions. That idea seems to have gone into the bin along with "we'll ship it when it's ready" and much else.
    Depends on what you mean by a "feature", but in general, yes, fully agree. However, that goes some way to explaining why they were not in the next expansion, but does little to explain why they have not come back for bfa, SL, or df.

    I also agree that the initial reception was a mixed bag, but many did quite like it......for a while. We are talking a matter of weeks before people realised there was no more coming - what you see is what you get.

    I also agree that they COULD have been done much better, but as it stands, the little we did get cost a raid tier, which leads me to believe a fully fleshed out system would cost an entire game mode - raiding being the most likely.

    People often compare to other games with more advanced housing systems and say "see, it can be done, why can't blizzard do that?" And the short answer is they could - bit it would come at a cost. Those other games generally don't offer anywhere near the features wow does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  5. #65
    All you did was sit around and send followers on adventures with the click of a button.
    So much for fun gameplay...

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    All you did was sit around and send followers on adventures with the click of a button. So much for fun gameplay...
    Sending followers out to do what I wanted to do.
    The garrison might not have been too bad an idea. I liked it decked out in Halloween decor. Had WoD the same amount of content as MoP I might still have an active account. Or not. I really hated the storyline.
    But that mission table was a bad idea to me.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Man you really are on another level. So you get upset that i cant "prove" that Garrisons were not a popular feature, especially considering the resources required to make them (they cost us a raid tier). You then go on to claim, without anything to support it, that it "could" have been because of performance. Who on earth thinks THAT is an argument?

    You have made the claim that garrisons were popular - support it with something. I have made the claim they were not, and my evidence is simple - they were not continued. What evidence do you have to support your claim that they were popular, as you have claimed "most people liked them". What do you have to support ANY of the claims you are making?

    Blizzard have publicly stated they cost an entire raid tier, and people were not happy that it pulled players out of the world and made it feel like a lobby game. Your counter argument is "me and my friends liked them, therefore most people liked them, it could have just been a performance problem". Like who uses this "logic"?
    I said most people liked the "idea" of the garrison, it was a feature selling the expansion, WoD sold exceptionally well. And I didn't even say that my friends "liked them"... the strawmen you are building are ridiculous.
    If your flimsly claims are reasonable enough, so is mine.
    What's your problem? You despise your own logic?

    It didn't even turn out the way it was promised, you sure do talk alot and say nothing in the end.
    This thread is about what the garrison could have been, not what the garrison was in the end.
    For some flipping reason you think the WoD garrison would be the same as it is right now 5 years later, what gives?

    You talk all about how it was discontinued, yet we actually have the "garrison feature" you talk about and despise so much in-every-single-expansion post WoD. So what the fuck are you talking about. The mission table with passive income with passive farm exist even right now? Have you even been playing WoW?
    No one says that daily quests in the open world should be removed just because the garrison building element and customization comes in again. So what do you have to argue against that? The fact that the garrison was self sufficient has nothing to do with the concept of it.
    If you think people don't want the customization (and way more) and basebuilding from the garrison feature, I don't know what to tell you other than pointing you towards all the player housing requests.
    Stop acting like the WoD garrison can't be changed properly to work while still allowing the players to go outside and explore stuff.
    A base of operation you give your own touch is not something that has anyone arguing on the "I'd hate that"-smurf side. They would be total asshat to even start badmouthing it. "I hate playerhousing in FFXIV because people shill in their guild houses instead of Limsa" - said no one ever, and even if someone did, fuck him?

    So spare me your pathetic attempts to convince me otherwise just so you can keep on hating on that feature for no reason.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-07-09 at 03:59 PM.

  8. #68
    I kinda wish they readded the removed transmog salvage yard reintroduced into the game.

    There I said something I wanted about garrisons back.

  9. #69
    We've crossed the nostalgia threshold, I see.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    We've crossed the nostalgia threshold, I see.
    Yup, far beyond the threshold for some, claiming "most" people liked the garrison. It happens with every expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  11. #71
    Crossed the threshold because those that aren't playing aren't posting here as much as those that are still playing.

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