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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Minifie View Post
    http://platinumparagon.info/the-psyc...otransactions/

    A good read, but in essence: You are wrong, flat out. Psychiatric investigation is pushing further into this field and it's not coming up roses for those with the uncaring attitude of these predators.
    In essence: learn to spend money, avoid cash grabs, think before you do, research stuff beforehand - and you won't have problems. OR call yourself a victim, spend more than you earn, get into a heap of trouble

  2. #62
    People knew at the time of the announcement of hearthstone that card games were generally vampires for money so people were already primed for annoyances, paywalls and excessive monetization.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    In essence: learn to spend money, avoid cash grabs, think before you do, research stuff beforehand - and you won't have problems. OR call yourself a victim, spend more than you earn, get into a heap of trouble
    basicaly screw everyone with addiction issues,as long as it eint your problem who cares,i bet you think countries that banned these games are being tyranical

  4. #64
    I am Murloc!
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    I'm sort of confused, does everybody on this forum have kids or something lol? Not defending practices in the game, but as a 35 year old adult wrestling a credit card from a juvenile isn't difficult at all, much like forcing the TV off or moving me to my room as a child wasn't difficult for my parents while I was growing up. Logically if I had kids and they wanted my credit card for anything, I would do it myself, turn off auto saving features and make sure what they're buying with my CC isn't a waste. My mother while growing up certainly didn't jump on the opportunity when I was younger to give her CC information out because I wanted to buy some stupid PPV Wrestling event when I was 8.

    It just feels odd and disingenuous part of the conversation when people jump towards "think of the children", or better yet "think of the whales".

    I've played the game a bit and am still F2P and it's obvious that a lot of people don't think for themselves. I saw a level 28 going through the campaign early today citing his opinion in group chat saying the game feels very pay to play. Which anybody who has played the game at all would know couldn't be further from the truth.

    Diablo Immortal is however different from HS. First off you have a primary PC audience who doesn't normally play mobile games suddenly realizing what the mobile market is like. HS was for both, and HS barrier to entry from an MTX standpoint is completely different. You can build constructed decks with very little money, or play other modes in the game that are either free or offer very little advantage for dolling out money (like BGS). Furthermore the in-game currency in HS lends itself to where you might need to pay a little bit of money on one season, but if you actively play you can pay virtually nothing on the next season.

    A big issue with Diablo Immortal as somebody who actually plays it is how they structure the MTX in the game. The in game currency is incredibly expensive and there's loads of 'deals' that are surrounded by a few things that are actually 'deals'. 90% of the things on the store aren't really worth it, while a few things would be worth if you wanted to play long term (I haven't bought it, nor will I, but some of the monthly things are fairly value). How it plays its your opinion, but of the mobile games I've played it's pretty good and is essentially a bit of a watered down D3 that you can play on handheld with more MMO features. It certainly doesn't play like trash by mobile standards.

    Gems in this game are still the biggest outlier though. If they reigned them in or made them a bit more plentiful 90% of the arguments would dissipate. At least if you look into what you're buying in DI even if you don't hit that 5 star gem that you're coveting. The gems can still be rolled into upgrading gems, which is also a currency and is limited. I don't really see the 'gambling' in DI as much worse than Lost Ark where you're literally pulling a slot machine with 5-10% chance up to what 12x in the later tiers waiting for the pity system to kick in over those 6x items you have to upgrade a half a dozen times.

    Again this game is far from perfect but the comparison between HS and DI is laughable. DI does control fairly well despite naysayers saying otherwise. If they cleaned up some of the MTX or added alternatives it might be good, but as it is now DI isn't a game that will last simply because the end game is pretty barebones. I'm not even sure why people would pay money in DI at this point because it doesn't really offer much (at the moment) anyway. For a mobile game if you're at work or taking a shit it's worth it, but as a main game I wouldn't put much stock into it.

    But man. Telling people how to spend their money let alone not being able to control these hypothetical kids that everyone in this thread is imagining is silly. Are "kids" just bigger and way stronger than parents these days? Are they smarter than the parents that literally grew up with the internet? I mean, my parents had to tell me growing up not to talk to stranger, and now I have to tell them when they're on the internet not to go to weird sites or click accept on anything lol.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Minifie View Post
    Bolded the part you don't want to do in this discussion, so that's a hilarious self-own.

    Guessing you didn't read the link, or the references within, or taken the time to look up why countries are starting to ban this shit, but hey - shitting on other people makes you feel better, go for it, but at least be honest about it.
    Shitting on other people? Not at all, they shit on themselves without my help - as if i care how they do it. By purchasing loot boxes, spending thousands in DI or other ways.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    basicaly screw everyone with addiction issues,as long as it eint your problem who cares,i bet you think countries that banned these games are being tyranical
    Tyrannical? Nope. Their country - their rules. I consider it funny, not tyrannical. Banning loot boxes

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Minifie View Post

    Okay, so you don't know what you are talking about but want to have your say anyway. Go ahead, but you are just wrong and ignorant unfortunately.
    Shame you can't handle other people's opinions, but no worries mister *always right*

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Minifie View Post
    Misinformation is a poor opinion to have, in my opinion.
    Yeap, you better listen to your own advice. That will help you in your life

  8. #68
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/he...tifiable/86344

    https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone...etization_why/

    https://blizzardwatch.com/2021/01/25...teed-66-cards/

    from like 2 minutes of googling. I remember there being criticism of Hearthstone starting with original release and following through the years with expansions etc. its just happens to be the game that I personaly gave up on much quicker then Diablo as I'm not typically into card games in general (one exception being Magic the gathering the old pc game that still used 4th edition cards but that was like literally 2 decades ago and it was one game, but I digress) even as someone who only bothered with hearthstone super briefly I remember there being monetization complaints so I did a quick search. didn't feel like going further into the past to look for earlier criticisms to cite, but... those existed.

    diablo immortal has just released. Hearthstone has been out for quite some time. Immortal criticisms are still extremely fresh. (oh and from what I remember of playing hearthstone monetization wasn't nearly as insidious though I could be wrong about that)

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    I'm sort of confused, does everybody on this forum have kids or something lol? Not defending practices in the game, but as a 35 year old adult wrestling a credit card from a juvenile isn't difficult at all, much like forcing the TV off or moving me to my room as a child wasn't difficult for my parents while I was growing up. Logically if I had kids and they wanted my credit card for anything, I would do it myself, turn off auto saving features and make sure what they're buying with my CC isn't a waste. My mother while growing up certainly didn't jump on the opportunity when I was younger to give her CC information out because I wanted to buy some stupid PPV Wrestling event when I was 8.

    It just feels odd and disingenuous part of the conversation when people jump towards "think of the children", or better yet "think of the whales".
    Of course they don't have kids. "But the children" is just an easy way to make your argument seem stronger.

    99% of the arguments on D:I have boiled down to people just not liking it, but knowing that just saying "I don't like it" would make everyone shrug.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Shitting on other people? Not at all, they shit on themselves without my help - as if i care how they do it. By purchasing loot boxes, spending thousands in DI or other ways.
    Your take is on the same level as: "Just don't be depressed 3head"

  11. #71
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Cost difference pretty much. Coz it will cost you WAY LESS to craft a deck you like in HS, and that's pretty much it.
    Well, depends if you mean end game or just playing the game.

    It's cheaper to get to Legend rank in HS than getting Rank 1 in Diablo.

    But if you don't wanna push leaderboard, you can experience pretty much all of Diablo free, yet you cannot craft any decent decks in HS free.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    The issue with Diablo Immortal isn't that it's p2w, it's the predatory nature behind it.

    Hearthstone is pay to win, sure. But it doesn't try to pretend that it isn't. It's a trading card game, of course it's pay to win.

    Diablo Immortal on the other hand, pretends like it's not. This by the following points:

    - D:I profiles itself like a normal Diablo game
    - D:I obfuscates your spending by having a multitude of currencies
    - D:I uses the indirect purchase model. You purchase units in indiscrete amounts, which can then be spend buying the things you need

    Sure, but you can access ALOT more of Diablo free than Hearthstone free. Diablo is only P2W if you wanna be at the top of the leaderboards, while Hearthstone is P2W all the way, regardless what level you play at.

    So Hearthstone is for the average player FAR more expensive.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Well, depends if you mean end game or just playing the game.

    It's cheaper to get to Legend rank in HS than getting Rank 1 in Diablo.

    But if you don't wanna push leaderboard, you can experience pretty much all of Diablo free, yet you cannot craft any decent decks in HS free.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I mean creating current meta deck that will probably have less problems getting to Legend ( though i guess most people play BG which is free )
    But of course you can get away with playing both f2p DI and Hearthstone without spending a dime.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    I mean creating current meta deck that will probably have less problems getting to Legend ( though i guess most people play BG which is free )
    But of course you can get away with playing both f2p DI and Hearthstone without spending a dime.
    hahahaha,is this some bad trolling atempt?you can get away with playing both f2p? in what universe?in hs you can get everything as f2p,you can grind it all,and being competitive is piss easy as f2p,in diablo immoral your chances of being competitive without paying are 0

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    hahahaha,is this some bad trolling atempt?you can get away with playing both f2p? in what universe?in hs you can get everything as f2p,you can grind it all,and being competitive is piss easy as f2p,in diablo immoral your chances of being competitive without paying are 0
    Did i say anything about being competitive and getting some top pvp places in DI? Not everyone has that mindset, there are casual players out there. I know it can be a shocker

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Did i say anything about being competitive and getting some top pvp places in DI? Not everyone has that mindset, there are casual players out there. I know it can be a shocker
    then whats the point of the argument your making?its like saying you can get away with living by eating dead rats,vs someone that has money and can live and eat on easy mode

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    then whats the point of the argument your making?its like saying you can get away with living by eating dead rats,vs someone that has money and can live and eat on easy mode
    Point? You can play those games for free without spending a dime. And that's how a lot of people play p2w mobile games, they go full f2p and spend an hour or less a day playing it. Casual-like. And they ENJOY it that way.

    Again, that's like casuals in WoW. Someone enjoys doing pet battles, i consider it garbage. But if that's how they want to play it - who am i to judge. Let them have fun.

  17. #77
    Hearthstone has never directly tied power to money. It's perfectly possible and in fact often easier to get legend rank with a budget deck than a costly deck, and this has always been the case. You can play Classic or Wild mode, assemble an aggro deck and stomp on players with their lategame legendary-filled decks. Probably Standard too but it's been a while since I played anything but BGs, which are also completely free.

    Diablo Immortal directly, in no uncertain ways, ties the amount of money you spend to your power. It's hard to even argue this.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    It has nothing to do with p2w.

    It's a bunch of PC gamers virtue signaling because they are naive to how mobile games work.
    This. /endthread

    Now we'll have a bunch of people come in to tell how they're totally different and how the mtx in HS is totally ok and an expected part of the game while in D:I it's evil and immoral and Blizzard is bad for doing it.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    This. /endthread

    Now we'll have a bunch of people come in to tell how they're totally different and how the mtx in HS is totally ok and an expected part of the game while in D:I it's evil and immoral and Blizzard is bad for doing it.
    cool strawman,in hs you can get everything for free,in diablo immoral f2p is literaly useless powerwise

  20. #80
    I think the D:I vs HS comparison depends on your investment in the game.

    For someone just starting out, D:I is going to seem a lot more accessible than HS. Just because HS starts you out with very few options and getting the ball rolling takes a lot of time-gated gold farming. Whereas you can just play through the entirety of the D:I campaign and into Hell without spending a thing.

    However, if you've been playing for a long time and are pretty established, you can do basically everything in HS without spending a dime. On the other hand, that's when you start hitting the point in D:I when progression slows down.

    They're almost totally reversed in that regard.

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