Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Warchief shade3891's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Boat to the Dragon Ilses
    Posts
    2,194
    I want them all give us more points.

  2. #42
    Regarding the new talent trees;

    Not my post, but very good point made;

    Typeß

    For anyone who cant tell, there really is no hybridity in the new talent system, most the CLASS TREE are the abilities you could have gotten leveling up as normal and selecting a spec, there is nothing hybrid about this, when you choose all your talents at the end of the day you will LITERALLY be the exact same character you are right now with NO MEANINGFUL choice…i.e. Are you gonna NOT TAKE the unholy pet talent in class tree and try to be unholy spec ? NO because half your kit will be useless if you did that. TALENTS are meant to ENHANCE your abilities not make you CHOOSE TO HAVE YOUR CLASS ABILITIES THAT YOU USED TO GET JUST FOR LEVELING. I really hate blizzard sometimes, they are taking your normal class and breaking it apart and letting you “reselect” those abilities to make it FEEL like you are getting something new when you arent. This just shows how desperate they are to change ANYTHING to make the game feel different, they have NO VISION left and it hurts. IM definitely not paying money for nothing new, and in fact maybe pruned from what SL is to play the EXACT same rotation for the next 3 years…AGAIN.


    As I posted in the other thread, the new talents trees are the same things we have now, but with extra steps. You’re still going to choose between the same talents we have now on each row, but with the added clutter of having to put points in all your basic spec and class abilities.

    Blizzard, go back to vanilla, tbc, and wrath and look at those trees for examples. Don't bother wasting time on a system that does the exact same thing as the current talents, but has a different coat of paint.

    And the cherry on top is that interrupts are now talents. Blizzard, you had an opportunity for greatness, here. Yet you decided to fuck it up. Again.

    "Interrupts" are talents now. Ugh. So these bloated new talent trees are nothing new at all, we'll just select all this stuff, just to be right back where we are now. Man I was hoping for some super cool cross spec combos and funky new talents to create a weird hybrid spec, but that's not happening, it's just dozens of talents to fill in, only to be the same character as in Shittylands.
    Last edited by Zorachus; 2022-07-07 at 03:51 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Regarding the new talent trees;

    Not my post, but very good point made;

    Typeß

    For anyone who cant tell, there really is no hybridity in the new talent system, most the CLASS TREE are the abilities you could have gotten leveling up as normal and selecting a spec, there is nothing hybrid about this, when you choose all your talents at the end of the day you will LITERALLY be the exact same character you are right now with NO MEANINGFUL choice…i.e. Are you gonna NOT TAKE the unholy pet talent in class tree and try to be unholy spec ? NO because half your kit will be useless if you did that. TALENTS are meant to ENHANCE your abilities not make you CHOOSE TO HAVE YOUR CLASS ABILITIES THAT YOU USED TO GET JUST FOR LEVELING. I really hate blizzard sometimes, they are taking your normal class and breaking it apart and letting you “reselect” those abilities to make it FEEL like you are getting something new when you arent. This just shows how desperate they are to change ANYTHING to make the game feel different, they have NO VISION left and it hurts. IM definitely not paying money for nothing new, and in fact maybe pruned from what SL is to play the EXACT same rotation for the next 3 years…AGAIN.


    As I posted in the other thread, the new talents trees are the same things we have now, but with extra steps. You’re still going to choose between the same talents we have now on each row, but with the added clutter of having to put points in all your basic spec and class abilities.

    Blizzard, go back to vanilla, tbc, and wrath and look at those trees for examples. Don't bother wasting time on a system that does the exact same thing as the current talents, but has a different coat of paint.

    And the cherry on top is that interrupts are now talents. Blizzard, you had an opportunity for greatness, here. Yet you decided to fuck it up. Again.

    "Interrupts" are talents now. Ugh. So these bloated new talent trees are nothing new at all, we'll just select all this stuff, just to be right back where we are now. Man I was hoping for some super cool cross spec combos and funky new talents to create a weird hybrid spec, but that's not happening, it's just dozens of talents to fill in, only to be the same character as in Shittylands.
    in terms of that post
    you cant go unholy and not take the pet talent because it is there by default
    currently the trees give access to combinations that we do not currently have
    you level and get a talent point then buy the ability so you still get the ability by leveling but a lot of people are seeing this from the point of view of getting stuff taken away when in reality it is just a talent reset. I am perfectly fine with having interrupts as talents because my healing spec on my monk did not have it. For weird builds and combos we have thrash ebar returning and laser bear making an appearance.

    You cant please everyone but this system is a definite improvement over the last system that did not have any new rows added since WoD.

  4. #44

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    I've run into a common theme in the people against this style of talent tree where certain abilities are now optional and they play up the small amount of people who won't take useful utility spells as some big portion of the player base that will ruin the game or the choices are actually punishments by removing certain skills from baseline.

    Apparently choice is bad if it's actual choices that effect gameplay and not just x% increases
    That's what we had with the original talent trees, with people choosing not to take core moves and/or spreading across all the trees and possibly not get ANY core moves. Sometimes it made sense, like one of the rogue tree's final talents being a boring and unneeded +10 to max energy. Sometimes it was something vitally important like your main class cooldown or core ability. That's why they put in the "you must complete your main tree before you can invest in another" rule in Cata.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's what we had with the original talent trees, with people choosing not to take core moves and/or spreading across all the trees and possibly not get ANY core moves. Sometimes it made sense, like one of the rogue tree's final talents being a boring and unneeded +10 to max energy. Sometimes it was something vitally important like your main class cooldown or core ability. That's why they put in the "you must complete your main tree before you can invest in another" rule in Cata.
    Well the trees as we see them now do have a couple (literally two) situations where you can take a talent that buffs an ability you can avoid taking. I know that this will be addressed in testing because it was the first thing players were pointing out so I'm not worried about it.

    The new trees essentially let you build your rotation and instead of just tossing you the ability and not explaining how it works

  7. #47
    Before i saw the new hunter talent tree, i was hoping they wouldn`t just add more "+ increase damage to spell"
    but after that, i`m not terribly hopeful.

    Shadow priests got a few great ones, talents that emphasize a certain choice in talents over others, that impact and develop
    the brancing choices you make in interesting ways.
    An example being the new shadowfiend talents.

    Ideally talents would offer a new way of playing your class, like how the old Gladiator stance altered prot warriors.
    Or the "dotless" shadow priest talents from WoD.
    Just a straight increase to damage is not only boring, it`s just uninspired and a waste of talent points, conceptually at least.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Can't do that. Queue and party finders need to know your role when grouping you.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No... you got a seal on the conduit. We do not need the clunky BS system back. You got classic for that.
    Oh, you mean like back then, where you can queue LFR in any spec you want? I mean when i leveled my warrior in wotlk I played arms, queued as Tank and tanked instances as arms warrior. And noone cares if you are a pure dps or some hybrid tank dps thing.

    Noone cars you you playing weird hybrid or funspec like 2handed enhancer. And if you do high level stuff where something like this is drawback just dont invite them.

    Something like stanced was boring for pve, but great for pvp. I felt pretty cool, to switch between 2handed and 1hand+ shield, or change presence like "I need to go def > blood" "i get cc income > frost" or "i burst now > go unholy". And as a warrior i felt like a gladiator back then.

    What we dont need are people like u who wanna have the exact same, boring and generic sht for every class/spec. This is an mmoRPG and not some dps simulator.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dejiko View Post
    Before i saw the new hunter talent tree, i was hoping they wouldn`t just add more "+ increase damage to spell"
    but after that, i`m not terribly hopeful.

    Shadow priests got a few great ones, talents that emphasize a certain choice in talents over others, that impact and develop
    the brancing choices you make in interesting ways.
    An example being the new shadowfiend talents.

    Ideally talents would offer a new way of playing your class, like how the old Gladiator stance altered prot warriors.
    Or the "dotless" shadow priest talents from WoD.
    Just a straight increase to damage is not only boring, it`s just uninspired and a waste of talent points, conceptually at least.
    To be fair, i didnt expect them to doing many changes, if they would have planned that they would have announced it, like they did with legion. They just carry over the actual talents/gameplay into a new coat of paint, some specs/classes are lucky and get changes, some wont. I'm 100% sure my Monk in all 3 specs will remain the same like legion. So lets go, the 7th and 8th in a row with barely changes.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    Oh, you mean like back then, where you can queue LFR in any spec you want? I mean when i leveled my warrior in wotlk I played arms, queued as Tank and tanked instances as arms warrior. And noone cares if you are a pure dps or some hybrid tank dps thing.

    Noone cars you you playing weird hybrid or funspec like 2handed enhancer. And if you do high level stuff where something like this is drawback just dont invite them.

    Something like stanced was boring for pve, but great for pvp. I felt pretty cool, to switch between 2handed and 1hand+ shield, or change presence like "I need to go def > blood" "i get cc income > frost" or "i burst now > go unholy". And as a warrior i felt like a gladiator back then.

    What we dont need are people like u who wanna have the exact same, boring and generic sht for every class/spec. This is an mmoRPG and not some dps simulator.

    - - - Updated - - -



    To be fair, i didnt expect them to doing many changes, if they would have planned that they would have announced it, like they did with legion. They just carry over the actual talents/gameplay into a new coat of paint, some specs/classes are lucky and get changes, some wont. I'm 100% sure my Monk in all 3 specs will remain the same like legion. So lets go, the 7th and 8th in a row with barely changes.
    So, you mean you got carried and don't care.
    Go on. Try to tank as arms on the modern game. You can queue as tank while arms. See how you do.
    What we don't need is people like you glued to the past and soaked in nostalgia thinking the game can just go back to what it was. The time, the community, it has all moved on. Classic is right there for you. Go play that.

  10. #50
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Sweet Home Alabama
    Posts
    1,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejiko View Post
    Before i saw the new hunter talent tree, i was hoping they wouldn`t just add more "+ increase damage to spell"
    but after that, i`m not terribly hopeful.

    Shadow priests got a few great ones, talents that emphasize a certain choice in talents over others, that impact and develop
    the brancing choices you make in interesting ways.
    An example being the new shadowfiend talents.


    Ideally talents would offer a new way of playing your class, like how the old Gladiator stance altered prot warriors.
    Or the "dotless" shadow priest talents from WoD.
    Just a straight increase to damage is not only boring, it`s just uninspired and a waste of talent points, conceptually at least.
    This, it seems that only Priest df talent tree developers are have imagination, while all of other classes stack in past with having baseline abilities removed and then placed as TALENT choices.


    So go Priest GO! while other classes in shambles. (hunter has 1 shadow skill just to piss-off these people who wants Dark Ranger)

    Somehow some guy places "Rise Undead" icon into Subtlety Rogue DF talent tree, he must be fired from his job.
    Last edited by cocomen2; 2022-07-09 at 12:34 PM.
    Hulk x She-hulk = Hulk-kids, Disney just image how easy to sell small Hulk-kids toys, just DO-IT /s

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    This, it seems that only Priest df talent tree developers are have imagination, while all of other classes stack in past with having baseline abilities removed and then placed as TALENT choices.


    So go Priest GO! while other classes in shambles. (hunter has 1 shadow skill just to piss-off these people who wants Dark Ranger)

    Somehow some guy places "Rise Undead" icon into Subtlety Rogue DF talent tree, he must be fired from his job.
    So all 3 sets seem to have different design styles
    Druid & dk: split trees based on specific themes having CC and utility unavoidable

    Priest: have utility and CC connected and the central style of tree

    Hunter & Rogue: CC avoidable and CDs equally available to each spec from all top options

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    This, it seems that only Priest df talent tree developers are have imagination, while all of other classes stack in past with having baseline abilities removed and then placed as TALENT choices.


    So go Priest GO! while other classes in shambles. (hunter has 1 shadow skill just to piss-off these people who wants Dark Ranger)

    Somehow some guy places "Rise Undead" icon into Subtlety Rogue DF talent tree, he must be fired from his job.
    So all 3 sets seem to have different design styles
    Druid & dk: split trees based on specific themes having CC and utility unavoidable

    Priest: have utility and CC connected and the central style of tree

    Hunter & Rogue: CC avoidable and CDs equally available to each spec from all top options

    Seems design is changing and I'm here for it

  12. #52
    Specifically, as Destro Lock I want Lord of Flames and/or Vision of Perfection back. Two of the most fun things I've had as warlock.

    Honestly I'd like most of my artifact weapon back as well. 1 min cd defensive felt good. I'd like there to actually be a choice between cataclysm and fire and brimstone. Maybe make f&b a toggle again. Take the good bits from MoP and Legion lock, smash em together with some of the better essences/covenant stuff and call it a day.

  13. #53
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    18,572
    What I want-- or rather, would like-- from the new talent trees is that Blizzard wouldn't fucking rip out baseline abilities and toss them into the talent trees with the sole intention to just bloat it and make it seem bigger and more "MeAnInGfUl" and actually have new stuff in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    This, it seems that only Priest df talent tree developers are have imagination, while all of other classes stack in past with having baseline abilities removed and then placed as TALENT choices.


    So go Priest GO! while other classes in shambles. (hunter has 1 shadow skill just to piss-off these people who wants Dark Ranger)

    Somehow some guy places "Rise Undead" icon into Subtlety Rogue DF talent tree, he must be fired from his job.
    So all 3 sets seem to have different design styles
    Druid & dk: split trees based on specific themes having CC and utility unavoidable

    Priest: have utility and CC connected and the central style of tree

    Hunter & Rogue: CC avoidable and CDs equally available to each spec from all top options

    Seems design is changing and I'm here for it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What I want-- or rather, would like-- from the new talent trees is that Blizzard wouldn't fucking rip out baseline abilities and toss them into the talent trees with the sole intention to just bloat it and make it seem bigger and more "MeAnInGfUl" and actually have new stuff in there.
    The talent system is "instead of gaining skills by leveling you get talent points to spend on skills"
    It feels weird on max level characters but in terms of baseline abilities this is the same as leveling

    I stead of getting ams at level 25 you get a talent point you can spend on it between level 11-20

  15. #55
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    18,572
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    The talent system is "instead of gaining skills by leveling you get talent points to spend on skills"
    It feels weird on max level characters but in terms of baseline abilities this is the same as leveling

    I stead of getting ams at level 25 you get a talent point you can spend on it between level 11-20
    I would very much prefer getting abilities at fixed levels, and talent points to progress on the talent tree to improve my existing abilities. In my opinion, talents should improve on what you already have and maybe, maybe give you one more active ability, two at most! Oh, and those new abilities should be new stuff, not baseline stuff that you used to have by default in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  16. #56
    General talent trees cant be the same design for hybrids and non-hybrids.

    Classes like rogues will love the new DF system since all choices are meaningful to them while classes like Druids will despise it since in the "general" talent trees there is a lot of talents directly related to the performance of their current role (lets say healing), and then a bunch of often meaningless talents related to other roles.

    If you have to lose on 4 role-performance-enhancing general talents to take 3 useless "off spec" general talents to reach one semi-useful "off spec" general talent that is bad design and not viable in any meaningful content.
    Not to mention it feels like utter trash to play and experiment with a talent system that viciously punishes you for playing a hybrid class.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    General talent trees cant be the same design for hybrids and non-hybrids.

    Classes like rogues will love the new DF system since all choices are meaningful to them while classes like Druids will despise it since in the "general" talent trees there is a lot of talents directly related to the performance of their current role (lets say healing), and then a bunch of often meaningless talents related to other roles.

    If you have to lose on 4 role-performance-enhancing general talents to take 3 useless "off spec" general talents to reach one semi-useful "off spec" general talent that is bad design and not viable in any meaningful content.
    Not to mention it feels like utter trash to play and experiment with a talent system that viciously punishes you for playing a hybrid class.
    So I'm going to assume the trees are all part of different points in development. Druid and DK have the most in terms of diversity but they have utility mixed with throughput in set paths like you pointed out

    Priest has clear distinction but falls into requiring niche utility for commonly used ones.

    Rogue and hunter are designed in a way that you can essentially move across the tree quickly

  18. #58
    I mean, if this is just wishlist posting...

    Mistweaver Monk:
    -Bring back moving while channeling soothing mists.
    -Access to an interrupt so I don't have to rely on shit dps that don't even know they have a kick button.
    -Bring back permanent fistweaving as an option without essence font BS.
    -Please no Fallen Order. I know it's strong, but it's boring as fuck and hard to balance.
    -Gift of Sheilun or some other significant instant heal, maybe even a swiftmend style clone like "eats your hots for a shield with their remaining healing+x"
    -More thematic, but maybe a little more mist to the mistweaver. I could crapshoot an idea but don't wanna atm.

    I mainly want healing on a monk to be a little more interactive. It's nice having 95% of my healing just being smart heals when raid leading, but it does get a little old. I'd really like to see a rework that brings back some Chi points interactions similar to paladins Holy Power, but I don't expect to see that soon, if ever.

    Frost Mage:
    -Just trash Lonely Winter and let me use my elemental again without it being a damage loss for the first time in like a decade.
    -Make Ebonbolt/Glacial spike a viable build again.

    Really that's about it. I like frost mage, but it gets real boring just playing Ice Lance Simulator 2022.

  19. #59
    Revenge unfucked and Heroic Strike or Focused Rage back

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    I honestly don’t care about the details. I care about the philosophy. I want a system that persists and isn’t redesigned every patch of the expansion before getting thrown out. I do not want this perpetual drain on design efforts. And that’s what I’m getting, regardless of how good the system is.
    for me a perfect world is the current talents,because choice and variation is a thing that in wrath rly wasnt unless it was pvp vs pve

    and just have a legion style weapon tree for lvling that by lvl cap you max out,and thats how you get all your class abilities that vary based on spec instead of just auto learning them

    also i kinda miss the cata tree a bit,why did they remove the lvl 10 specialization boost i cant understand,mop and wod felt rly bland when you leveled,you get to 10 and dont feel hardly any gains comapred to the insane power u got when doing it in cata

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •