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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    i think i might just have a different opinion
    everything we get via the talent tree is stuff we got by leveling anyways
    in the hunter and rogue trees you can skipp some talents and still have a path to the next which imo is good
    Well yes thats the exact issue now isnt it? These are abilities that have been baseline for years that now u get to chose between o here is extra damage OR here is the mobility/utility that u have had for years stripped away enjoy! The classes will feel worse then before because they are talent points and not baseline abilities. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING FOR YEARS about this exact issue but now its ok because it looks like the old trees? I think a lot of people are in for a world of wide awakening when this does hit beta but it will be to late to do anything about it until the end of the expansion like covenants.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    Well yes thats the exact issue now isnt it? These are abilities that have been baseline for years that now u get to chose between o here is extra damage OR here is the mobility/utility that u have had for years stripped away enjoy! The classes will feel worse then before because they are talent points and not baseline abilities. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING FOR YEARS about this exact issue but now its ok because it looks like the old trees? I think a lot of people are in for a world of wide awakening when this does hit beta but it will be to late to do anything about it until the end of the expansion like covenants.
    It's just instead of getting it automatically at level 17 you can choose it at level 13
    Is AMZ useful in this fight or is it better to just have that point in getting more haste in D&D??

    Technically speaking we only got one skill baseline

    In the current trees we have been shown I don't see anything where getting utility is so far out of the way of any build that you can't pick it up

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    It's just instead of getting it automatically at level 17 you can choose it at level 13
    Is AMZ useful in this fight or is it better to just have that point in getting more haste in D&D??

    Technically speaking we only got one skill baseline

    In the current trees we have been shown I don't see anything where getting utility is so far out of the way of any build that you can't pick it up
    AMZ is in the class tree not the spec tree. Things like harpoon, grappling hook, solar beam, dispersion are all part of the spec trees thats where the issue is. IF THE UTILITY(class tree) TREE ACTUALLY HAD THE UTILITY it wouldnt be an issue but it doesnt. Actually this proves my point if u look at the earlier trees they dont have basic mobility and other utility in the spec trees.
    Last edited by ChronoSul; 2022-07-12 at 06:04 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    AMZ is in the class tree not the spec tree. Things like harpoon, grappling hook, solar beam, dispersion are all part of the spec trees thats where the issue is. IF THE UTILITY(class tree) TREE ACTUALLY HAD THE UTILITY it wouldnt be an issue but it doesnt. Actually this proves my point if u look at the earlier trees they dont have basic mobility and other utility in the spec trees.
    That's because right now a lot of complaints are about why X spec has Y utility.

    My monk healer can't interrupt currently but looking at the general trees it will be able to in DF

    Ad far as utility in spec trees it is still available and still something you get while leveling

    Looking at the designs from the first two until the last we can see they are slowly moving to make sure that even when you feel like CC or other utility is required in a group we actually get multiple ways to build into it and not lose out on other important choices

  5. #85
    ANYTHING other than what they are showing....
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    That's because right now a lot of complaints are about why X spec has Y utility.

    My monk healer can't interrupt currently but looking at the general trees it will be able to in DF

    Ad far as utility in spec trees it is still available and still something you get while leveling

    Looking at the designs from the first two until the last we can see they are slowly moving to make sure that even when you feel like CC or other utility is required in a group we actually get multiple ways to build into it and not lose out on other important choices
    But thats the exact opposite of what we are seeing. We are seeing more of the utility that was baseline in the specs trees not less. Compare any dk spec to lets say shadow priest. Shadow Priest u have in the spec tree Dispersion, Silence, Vampiric Embrace, Psychic Scream, Psyhic Horror ALL USED TO BE BASELINE meanwhile with the first batch of trees we saw aka DK. The only utility you got in the spec tree is for blood which is gorefiend's grasp which is already a talent so no issue there. Again the evidence points in a direction that they are moving in a direction of taking away more then the originally planned.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    But thats the exact opposite of what we are seeing. We are seeing more of the utility that was baseline in the specs trees not less. Compare any dk spec to lets say shadow priest. Shadow Priest u have in the spec tree Dispersion, Silence, Vampiric Embrace, Psychic Scream, Psyhic Horror ALL USED TO BE BASELINE meanwhile with the first batch of trees we saw aka DK. The only utility you got in the spec tree is for blood which is gorefiend's grasp which is already a talent so no issue there. Again the evidence points in a direction that they are moving in a direction of taking away more then the originally planned.
    Psychic scream still seems to be baseline but disc and shadow have talents that reduce the CD

    I will agree that the shadow tree seems weirdly loaded but it's important to look at the rogue and hunter trees as well since those likely came later in design and priest is a huge outlier in terms of these trees because it has more nodes than the others by a mile

  8. #88
    Feeling like classes felt in Legion and not loosing it at the end of the expansion.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Psychic scream still seems to be baseline but disc and shadow have talents that reduce the CD

    I will agree that the shadow tree seems weirdly loaded but it's important to look at the rogue and hunter trees as well since those likely came later in design and priest is a huge outlier in terms of these trees because it has more nodes than the others by a mile
    My bad on the psychic scream. But what do U mean look at the hunter and rogue trees. Both have most of their mobility in their spec trees. Rogue has in assassination Atrophic Poison, Shadowstep, Shiv. Sub has shadowstep, Shrouded in Darkness. Outlaw Grappling Hook, Hit and Run, Dirty Tricks which for some reason is outlaw only now. While hunter has for marks bursting shot , Wailing Arrow. Survival has Harpoon, Lunge , Aspect of the Eagle the fact all three of these ARE BASICLY GONE changes how the spec plays completely in terms of mobility going from a melee spec that could actually become fully range for 12 secs or get back into melee range quickly. Its like if for the warrior tree they decide on putting charge somewhere in the spec trees but to the side where there would be no reason for you ever to pick it. And the Only spec out of these 2 classes to only have ONE Utility or Mobility spell in the spec tree BM with wailing arrow.

  10. #90
    I want the same level of balance minus 2 outliers when creating a mythic plus group along with not having to hit a checklist more so then we already do now. Got a Lust etc. There was a reason as to why they went away from talent trees previously because at most its the illusion of choice and at worst everyone ran the exact same talents anyway which in turn means what creativity? How will any self respecting guild react to their raid members being like nah i am role playing or whatever. Meta gaming cant go away when you are playing a game that enforces the idea of performance.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    My bad on the psychic scream. But what do U mean look at the hunter and rogue trees. Both have most of their mobility in their spec trees. Rogue has in assassination Atrophic Poison, Shadowstep, Shiv. Sub has shadowstep, Shrouded in Darkness. Outlaw Grappling Hook, Hit and Run, Dirty Tricks which for some reason is outlaw only now. While hunter has for marks bursting shot , Wailing Arrow. Survival has Harpoon, Lunge , Aspect of the Eagle the fact all three of these ARE BASICLY GONE changes how the spec plays completely in terms of mobility going from a melee spec that could actually become fully range for 12 secs or get back into melee range quickly. Its like if for the warrior tree they decide on putting charge somewhere in the spec trees but to the side where there would be no reason for you ever to pick it. And the Only spec out of these 2 classes to only have ONE Utility or Mobility spell in the spec tree BM with wailing arrow.
    A lot of those abilities you mentioned are currently spec specific anyways unless MM had lunge already and Assassination could harpoon.

    Counter shot, concussion shot, binding shot, tar trap, all in the hunter class tree. Rogues have cloak, shroud, feint, blind, evasion. You keep general utility in the general tree

    So by that design we will possibly see silence going back to the general tree along with Dispersion

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    A lot of those abilities you mentioned are currently spec specific anyways unless MM had lunge already and Assassination could harpoon.

    Counter shot, concussion shot, binding shot, tar trap, all in the hunter class tree. Rogues have cloak, shroud, feint, blind, evasion. You keep general utility in the general tree

    So by that design we will possibly see silence going back to the general tree along with Dispersion
    OR MAYBE JUST DONT MAKE MOBILITY AND UTILITY IN THE SPEC TREES AND MAKE THEM BASELINE. ITS SO SIMPLE. Also Silence and Dispersion are currently only shadow abilities why would they be moved to the general tree if the rest arnt? Mobility and Utility/Surivability that are only for one spec should just be baseline or hell just remove them from the game because u wont ever see them anyways as it currently stands. Or just make it consistent across the board and put other people's mobility in their spec trees or u will end up with a balancing nightmare. IDK WHY its so hard to understand that these trees are super inconsistent? Thats all I want consistency which isnt going to happen I guess and for the first time since playing this game I just wont and I'll get to watch as people complain when it goes live.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Your spellbook alone should allow you to be a fully functioning class performing your role as expected.

    Talents should allow you to enhance a specific aspect of your spec, e.g. if you want more cleave, or more st, or more survivability, etc.

    Playing "build-a-spellbook" is a sure-way to get a disaster. Before people didnt use their utility because maybe they didnt know how, but had the opportunity to learn. Now they have an excuse to never learn how to use that utility as they can pick talents that give them more throughput.
    this, besides that, I'd want all "talentss" however they might look like to just be passive abilities so that I don't have to keybing anything after changing spec, also I'd want my specs to have everything it needs to have to be build in, kind of like it used to be up to MoP and talents just enchancing given aspect of my spec

  14. #94
    Mechagnome Honkeymagoo's Avatar
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    I want utility. Give me lots of nodes that offer some kind of healing, movement speed, etc. People are usually going to pick what gives them the most theoretical dps, having the option to get utility for a slight dps loss is always good.

    It's also fun when there are meaningful points you don't always pick as you can come up with niche specs to accomplish weird things. Back in wrath I mained a hunter and had a whole BM setup that stacked stam for extra healing while soloing. I remember doing bgs with 40k hp as a hunter in early wrath and the % health regen from spirit pact, or whatever it was, made me one tanky mf.
    Last edited by Honkeymagoo; 2022-07-14 at 02:27 PM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Honkeymagoo View Post
    I want utility. Give me lots of nodes that offer some kind of healing, movement speed, etc. People are usually going to pick what gives them the most theoretical dps, having the option to get utility for a slight dps loss is always good.

    It's also fun when there are meaningful points you don't always pick as you can come up with niche specs to accomplish weird things. Back in wrath I mained a hunter and had a whole BM setup that stacked stam for extra healing while soloing. I remember doing bgs with 40k hp as a hunter in early wrath and the % health regen from spirit pact, or whatever it was, made me one tanky mf.
    I'm all for ppl doing whatever they want but posts like these always make me laugh. To get to 40k id imagine u gemmed stam and had the stam trinks. Spirit bond was 2% hp every 10 secs. Or in other words, every 10 secs u got healed for 800. Which was abt the amt of hp a dot would tick for ever 2-3 secs. Like yea you probably survived 3 globals longer but probably also did about 60% of the dps ud do if gemmed/geared/specced differently.

    I made trolly specs too for fun, but in today's game, most ppl won't want to group with you.

  16. #96
    Honestly, at this point I just want them to get rid of talents. As much as I love customization, it's very clear that this kind of customization causes nothing but problems for the game. Just give every class a coherent, fun kit, and call it a day.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Honestly, at this point I just want them to get rid of talents. As much as I love customization, it's very clear that this kind of customization causes nothing but problems for the game. Just give every class a coherent, fun kit, and call it a day.
    Eh choice is always better than boring

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