Social Adventure Design

[Big Thanks]

Why havent Blizzard explored more this kind of design that "forces" social interaction and adventures?
Maybe is because Blizz makes a game for "solo players" first...and then forgets or ignores this kind of social gameplay?

Ok before i start with my examples...im not a pro game designer...im just a random PvP'er...so here goes my examples.

Examples of things that could be done:


1) WANTED board (warmode only)
Place a price on someones head
Talk to a black hooded NPC at a bar to know the enemy location for a price
Hunt them

2) Crafter Guild
Only certain bosses from certain difficulties drop the exact mats to craft "X", Onyxia cloack from Vanilla on steroids

3) Master of a certain Class
There are normal paladins....and then there are PALADINS who did certain achievements to master one thing.
A master Retri Paladin studied the arts to improve damage of raid
A master Holy Paladin studied the arts to combat rezz
This achievements would populate certain areas of the game...with players training to be a master at X class

And...im out of ideas.
Im not a game designer but i believe "social adventures" can easily be recreated with systems.

Any other ideas for systems like this AND you agree or disagree?

[Tyris Flare]

The three main pillars of the game are all social adventures.

[Zenfoldor]

You mean like, what non-gamers and anime writers actually imagine(and what gamers dream of but never experience) when they think of MMO games?

I'm actually with you on that. Before actually playing this game, players might have dreams of standing out and building a reputation for themselves in the game. We have a dream that our toon would matter or even just be relevant or known to the community in which we play. In reality it's actually a bunch of randos who have no accountability and almost no chance of ever encountering the same player twice. There's certainly very little way to build up a reputation in the game, like for example, Let Me Solo Her did in Elden Ring. Instead, in wow today, you build up your addon metadata.

https://www.pcgamer.com/let-me-solo-...ia-2000-times/

In current wow, toons are fungible in the worst ways and non-fungible in the worst ways as well.

Some design where our toons weren't as anonymous as our identities would help alleviate that a bit, imo.

In early wow, I remember being a rogue who had done the quest to get Aqual Quintessences to run MC, and that generally, I felt very good about being needed. I fear the concept is too far beyond what the scope of the current game is. In the end, being able to build up a reputation will almost always be more satisfying than building up a character. It's just hard to code, so we all just get to be random.

[arkanon]

Why havent Blizzard explored more this kind of design that "forces" social interaction and adventures?

Thats why - you answered your own question.

[Big Thanks]

Thats why - you answered your own question.

No one is forced to do pet battles and they are in the game
No one is forced to do PvP

Whats the difference here? Is just content that you can choose to do or not.

[arkanon]

No one is forced to do pet battles and they are in the game
No one is forced to do PvP

Whats the difference here? Is just content that you can choose to do or not.

I quoted you directly. You used the word "forces" - not me.

You honestly think every single holy pally in the game wouldnt be "forced" to "master their class" to get a brez? You would invite a holy pally to a group that doesnt have the brez?

The only reason you would suggest it needs to be forced is because noone would do it unless they didnt have a choice - and yet your main defense of forcing people to do it is that............its optional and not forced? What are you actually trying to say?

[Kumorii]

No one is forced to do pet battles and they are in the game
No one is forced to do PvP

Whats the difference here? Is just content that you can choose to do or not.

You want blizzard to explore forced social interactions but leave it as a choice?
Find it difficult to understand what you mean tbh.

[Big Thanks]

You want blizzard to explore forced social interactions but leave it as a choice?
Find it difficult to understand what you mean tbh.

What you dont understand?

From my examples...you are not forced to hunt other players...but you can choose to do it
You are not forced to be part of a Crafter Guild.
Master Class....ok that one i can see everyone wanting to be one...but still not forced.

Im talking specific content you can choose to do (or not) but IF you choose to do it there is forced socialization to be had.

[arkanon]

2) Crafter Guild
Only certain bosses from certain difficulties drop the exact mats to craft "X", Onyxia cloack from Vanilla on steroids

One of the most common complaints i see recently on this forum, is "casual" players complaining that the best gear comes from group content, in particular mythic raids. You want to add to this by having crating mats drop from specific bosses on specific difficulties? How is this any different?

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Master Class....ok that one i can see everyone wanting to be one...but still not forced.
.

You think a flat damage increase for a dps toon and a fucking BREZ for a pally wouldnt be mandatory for any group content in the entire game? See this is the core problem with the various ideas using similar systems - its either powerful, at which point it becomes mandatory for everyone, or, its so meaningless that its not worth doing at all.

[Big Thanks]

One of the most common complaints i see recently on this forum, is "casual" players complaining that the best gear comes from group content, in particular mythic raids. You want to add to this by having crating mats drop from specific bosses on specific difficulties? How is this any different?

The "thing" being crafted could be a toy...mount...anything but gear.
The hardcore players would just be the crafters.

This is just some random ideas T_T im no game designer!

But im fairly certain is easy to do Social-driven design gameplay.

[arkanon]

The "thing" being crafted could be a toy...mount...anything but gear.
The hardcore players would just be the crafters.

This is just some random ideas T_T im no game designer!

But im fairly certain is easy to do Social-driven design gameplay.

How can you be so certain when you have failed to produce a single idea that works? The ideas you have just piggyback of already existing systems - warmode and raiding/group content. If you honestly think that allowing only the "best" players to craft certain items, and therefore completely control another sector of the market, is a good idea and there wouldnt be HUGE pushback, you dont understand this game at all.

[Big Thanks]

How can you be so certain when you have failed to produce a single idea that works? The ideas you have just piggyback of already existing systems - warmode and raiding/group content. If you honestly think that allowing only the "best" players to craft certain items, and therefore completely control another sector of the market, is a good idea and there wouldnt be HUGE pushback, you dont understand this game at all.

Then "edit" all i said and make ALL the rewards of said system entirely cosmetic.

mogs
mounts
toys
pets

Done have a nice day, you are welcome Blizzard, im a genius

[arkanon]

Then "edit" all i said and make ALL the rewards of said system entirely cosmetic.

mogs
mounts
toys
pets

Done have a nice day, you are welcome Blizzard, im a genius

So you now want to introduced forced grouping for the most popular solo parts of the game?

Xmog, mounts, toys and pets - with a few exceptions - are all solo ventures for the majority of people, and something people enjoy specifically because it can be done solo. I know plenty of casuals who spend half of the current expansion doing the previous expansion or one before that farming mounts, xmog, pets and toys. If that is still possible, then your "system" changes nothing. If that cant be done anymore, you have REMOVED a gameplay style, without introducing anything new.

[Kumorii]

What you dont understand?

From my examples...you are not forced to hunt other players...but you can choose to do it
You are not forced to be part of a Crafter Guild.
Master Class....ok that one i can see everyone wanting to be one...but still not forced.

Im talking specific content you can choose to do (or not) but IF you choose to do it there is forced socialization to be had.

Don't worry, got it... just the mix of forced and choice confused me a bit.

[username993720]

Why havent Blizzard explored more this kind of design that "forces" social interaction and adventures?
Maybe is because Blizz makes a game for "solo players" first...and then forgets or ignores this kind of social gameplay?

Ok before i start with my examples...im not a pro game designer...im just a random PvP'er...so here goes my examples.

Examples of things that could be done:


1) WANTED board (warmode only)
Place a price on someones head
Talk to a black hooded NPC at a bar to know the enemy location for a price
Hunt them

2) Crafter Guild
Only certain bosses from certain difficulties drop the exact mats to craft "X", Onyxia cloack from Vanilla on steroids

3) Master of a certain Class
There are normal paladins....and then there are PALADINS who did certain achievements to master one thing.
A master Retri Paladin studied the arts to improve damage of raid
A master Holy Paladin studied the arts to combat rezz
This achievements would populate certain areas of the game...with players training to be a master at X class

And...im out of ideas.
Im not a game designer but i believe "social adventures" can easily be recreated with systems.

Any other ideas for systems like this AND you agree or disagree?

Definitely, i'm on board.

[Kokolums]

The three main pillars of the game are all social adventures.

there is a difference between "multiplayer" content and "social" content. raiding is multiplayer but id never call it social as currently constructed. There is no community at all. you have a guild, and thats it.

[Gaidax]

Why havent Blizzard explored more this kind of design that "forces" social interaction and adventures?
Maybe is because Blizz makes a game for "solo players" first...and then forgets or ignores this kind of social gameplay?

Ok before i start with my examples...im not a pro game designer...im just a random PvP'er...so here goes my examples.

Examples of things that could be done:


1) WANTED board (warmode only)
Place a price on someones head
Talk to a black hooded NPC at a bar to know the enemy location for a price
Hunt them

2) Crafter Guild
Only certain bosses from certain difficulties drop the exact mats to craft "X", Onyxia cloack from Vanilla on steroids

3) Master of a certain Class
There are normal paladins....and then there are PALADINS who did certain achievements to master one thing.
A master Retri Paladin studied the arts to improve damage of raid
A master Holy Paladin studied the arts to combat rezz
This achievements would populate certain areas of the game...with players training to be a master at X class

And...im out of ideas.
Im not a game designer but i believe "social adventures" can easily be recreated with systems.

Any other ideas for systems like this AND you agree or disagree?

So practically you want to force people to do content they might not enjoy to ensure their character is up to par?

That after all the lessons learned from AP and later Covenants or Torghast?

Ion, dat you mate? Making the same mistake 4th time after saying you totes won't?

Here's a revelation for you - people don't want that bullshit. The core WoW experiences of dungeons, raiding and PvP are absolutely enough forced social interaction and adventure as is. There is no need to coat it with another layer of artificial bullshit and "Adventure Power".

[KOUNTERPARTS]

No one is forced to do pet battles and they are in the game
No one is forced to do PvP

Whats the difference here? Is just content that you can choose to do or not.

You're asking why Blizzard does not force players to do anything.


Because that would involved forcing somebody to do something. That would involve removing the choice to do something. Why do you want Blizzard to force people to do things?


Once again another Shadowpunk thread which completely misses the point that YOU made originally. I don't even see how that is possible-- how you can make a thread that, once challenged by other posters, you fall back on "wot? idk" every single time.


Here it is:


You ask why Blizzard doesn't force players to do social things, because you perceive the game to be anti-social and for solo players only. You are championing the idea that Blizzard should force players to engage in social activities and then suggest 3 examples that are, in fact, not examples of social activities.


"Adventures" as you are trying to portray them to be.


You champion an idea that forces players to rely on other players... and if they can't, then these "adventures" are dead in the water. The moment somebody like yourself is put around other players to be relied on, then decides not to play a long with them or do things required to play with them, they would attack you for not being social.
Then you would criticize them for being toxic.

- - - Updated - - -

So practically you want to force people to do content they might not enjoy to ensure their character is up to par?

Yes... this is Shadowpunk's mantra. Every single thread is "I enjoy this content" then makes a thread suggesting why the game is bad or needs to be changed in the manner that fits what he thinks it needs to be.

- - - Updated - - -

What you dont understand?

From my examples...you are not forced to hunt other players...but you can choose to do it

Sure it's added, players can choose to do it. This is just an example of something already in the game: optional. You just want a "WANTED" board specifically added.


How would a "WANTED" board even work? It's pretty much the same function, but you want to log-in the game and go up to a board and accept a quest that says "go kill this player" but how? What if that player isn't even online?


How is this so different from Bounty Hunting in War Mode? Somebody is out in the world/zone killing your faction, they become marked... go kill them. They are WANTED by your faction for killing yer dudes.

You are not forced to be part of a Crafter Guild.

You aren't forced to be apart of a regular guild either.
Why does there need be another kind of guild for crafting only?


Why not join, oh I don't know... an in-game community dedicated to crafting and professions? You know these exist right?

Master Class....ok that one i can see everyone wanting to be one...but still not forced.

This is something (many) players have been suggesting for a while. This really isn't an example of... "social adventures" or whatever are trying to get across.


This is just another proposal of adding master/presitge classes with another "twist" that doesn't fit.

Im talking specific content you can choose to do (or not) but IF you choose to do it there is forced socialization to be had.

The game has specific content you can choose to do (or not) but IF you choose to do there is forced socialization to be had. The game already has that.


You would have leveling zones be locked to people, unless 20 or more people were currently leveling in that zone.


Just because *you* choose not to participate in it, whether it's because you don't like it or you are just not good at it, doesn't mean it does not already exist.


Please understand this distinction and stop lying about current aspects of the game that doesn't fit your mentality.

[loras]

Why havent Blizzard explored more this kind of design that "forces" social interaction and adventures?
Maybe is because Blizz makes a game for "solo players" first...and then forgets or ignores this kind of social gameplay?

Ok before i start with my examples...im not a pro game designer...im just a random PvP'er...so here goes my examples.

Examples of things that could be done:


1) WANTED board (warmode only)
Place a price on someones head
Talk to a black hooded NPC at a bar to know the enemy location for a price
Hunt them

2) Crafter Guild
Only certain bosses from certain difficulties drop the exact mats to craft "X", Onyxia cloack from Vanilla on steroids

3) Master of a certain Class
There are normal paladins....and then there are PALADINS who did certain achievements to master one thing.
A master Retri Paladin studied the arts to improve damage of raid
A master Holy Paladin studied the arts to combat rezz
This achievements would populate certain areas of the game...with players training to be a master at X class

And...im out of ideas.
Im not a game designer but i believe "social adventures" can easily be recreated with systems.

Any other ideas for systems like this AND you agree or disagree?

First off: As a rule "forcing" social interactions in a game is an excessively bad idea that will cause friction at best and a toxic breakdown of the entire community at worst.

On to the actual suggestions:

Wanted board:
Very nice idea, but consider that it is very vulnerable to harassment and exploitation.
A better implementation could be a mix between your idea and the present implementation; someone killing many players gets marked for the normal rewards, but during such a time additional rewards can be posted for killing him that persist even after he loses his assassin status through some other means than dying to another player.
This prevents "re-bounty-ing" as a form of harassment, as it would require the target to make himself vulnerable through his own actions first.
The tracking option could still be implemented for tracking beyond a single zone, or tracking without being an active assassin ("tracking fugitives" if you will).

Crafter's guild:
This adds effectively nothing to the game.

Master of a certain class:
This would only wreck balance, to say nothing of what it would mean to be a master. Plenty of retards in shiny gear means that there is no reliable way to determine this stuff.


While it is a good idea to make use of players' initiatives to keep a game "living", this stuff should never be forced; good systems can exist by their own merits. Bad systems that you're forced into just stain the game.



An own suggestion (from alliance perspective for convenience):

Strategic locations:
Mark several empty locations in every zone and give players the options to spend resources to build something there that benefits their faction, like i.e.
- watchtowers that give you +x movement speed on roads and - x enemy detection range
- expeditions that give +y gathering speed/range/succesfulness
- military base that buffs you with a helper npc whenever you are fight with horde
- infiltrator camp that weakens nearby horde settlements
- envoy that increases reputation gains
- etcetera

Additionally players could fund guards of various qualities to temporarily defend these things.
Another catch is that these buildings need supply lines, so every so often a supply caravan from a major settlement makes its way to the strategic point. If it is raided by enemy players (or event npcs) it will be destroyed and the buildings / guards will be weakened until either manually reinforced or until enough supply caravans have reached them to make up for the shortfall. Example: A guard post loses 20% of all its stats when a caravan is lost, so it would take 5 caravan destructions to wipe it out entirely. Every caravan that does reach it restores 25% of the stats though.

Friendly caravans would be marked as mobile world quests, friendly buildings would just be marked on your map. Enemy buildings would spawn a zone-wide quest to discover the buildings, unlocking a daily quest to destroy them. Enemy caravans would spawn a daily quest upon discovery as well.

[Big Thanks]

@loras

Thanks for your post!
My ideas are nothing special and are heavily copied from other games.
For example the "wanted" thing is a copy-paste of the Black Desert system it already exists

The "master of a class" is a bad idea if is tied to "player power" so it could be simply cosmetic.
But the main idea is to populate certain areas with players "training"...like ROGUE in vanilla training to be a lockpicker...remember?

I like your ideas too because the objective is to populate random areas of the game with people working together! I LOVE IT!