Give the Horde better leaders.

[Grazrug]

Anduin is better then Thrall.
Malfurion and Tyrande are better then Rokhan.
The council of three hammers is better then Baine.
Gelbin is better then Gazlowe.
Velen is better then Bob.
Genn Greymane is better then Voss.
Aysa is better then Ji.
Alleria and Umbric are better then Thalyssra.
Turyalon and Fareeya are better then Mayla.
Moira is better then Geya’rah.
Erazmin is better then Kiro.
and Jaina is better then Talanji.

All in all the leaders the Horde currently has are nothing but utter trash. They need to die. Period. After they are killed a new Horde leadership would look like this:

Orcs - Doomhammer
Trolls - Jindo
Tauren - Magatha
Undead- Sylvanas
blood elves - Kael’thas
Goblins - Gallywix
Pandaren - Chen Stormstout
Mag’har -AU Grommash
Nightborne - Resurrected Elisande
Highmountain - Underking Dragrul
Zandalari - Resurrected King Dazar
and replace Vulpera with Mogu and bring back Lei-Shen

that is my perfect leadership for the Horde. And I will stop at nothing to get it. I hope Blizzard is reading this post and consider it a possibility.

Cheers. Your’s Grazrug.

[Varodoc]

That wouldn't change anything though.

The Alliance leaders would still be better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Arrashi]

I want Mudmug, Liftbrul and Perry Gatner as new horde council.

[Grazrug]

That wouldn't change anything though.

The Alliance leaders would still be better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe. But like this think would be more equal.

[Maljinwo]

Incredible. All of these nominations are terrible except for maybe doomhammer
The problem is he is dead. As is 90% else on that list

Oh wait

A Grazrug thread. lol

[Dellis0991]

Except Magatha is a piece of shit and Chen values personal freedom.

edit: I should've look at who made the thread...smh

[MrLachyG]

All in all the leaders the Horde currently has are nothing but utter trash. They need to die. Period. After they are killed a new Horde leadership would look like this:

Orcs - Doomhammer
Trolls - Jindo
Tauren - Magatha
Undead- Sylvanas
blood elves - Kael’thas
Goblins - Gallywix
Pandaren - Chen Stormstout
Mag’har -AU Grommash
Nightborne - Resurrected Elisande
Highmountain - Underking Dragrul
Zandalari - Resurrected King Dazar
and replace Vulpera with Mogu and bring back Lei-Shen

that is my perfect leadership for the Horde. And I will stop at nothing to get it. I hope Blizzard is reading this post and consider it a possibility.

Cheers. Your’s Grazrug.

oh god you again. for the 50th time: MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE DEAD, GONE OR NEUTRAL. Doomhammer, dead. Jindo, dead. Magatha, Tauren will never let her lead. Sylvanas, off repenting in the Maw. Kael'thas, dead. Gallywix, off spending his money somewhere. Chen, neutral. AU Grommash, dead (if he's lucky) or converted to Light fanatic. Elisande, dead. Dragrul, dead. Dazar, dead. Lei Shen, dead.

not only are most of them dead and not coming back but we openly killed several of them and they almost certainly hate us for it (Jindo, Dragrul, Lei Shen)

give it up already!

[Romanthony]

Anduin is better then Thrall.
Malfurion and Tyrande are better then Rokhan.
The council of three hammers is better then Baine.
Gelbin is better then Gazlowe.
Velen is better then Bob.
Genn Greymane is better then Voss.
Aysa is better then Ji.
Alleria and Umbric are better then Thalyssra.
Turyalon and Fareeya are better then Mayla.
Moira is better then Geya’rah.
Erazmin is better then Kiro.
and Jaina is better then Talanji.

All in all the leaders the Horde currently has are nothing but utter trash. They need to die. Period. After they are killed a new Horde leadership would look like this:

Orcs - Doomhammer
Trolls - Jindo
Tauren - Magatha
Undead- Sylvanas
blood elves - Kael’thas
Goblins - Gallywix
Pandaren - Chen Stormstout
Mag’har -AU Grommash
Nightborne - Resurrected Elisande
Highmountain - Underking Dragrul
Zandalari - Resurrected King Dazar
and replace Vulpera with Mogu and bring back Lei-Shen

that is my perfect leadership for the Horde. And I will stop at nothing to get it. I hope Blizzard is reading this post and consider it a possibility.

Cheers. Your’s Grazrug.

So you want to replace, The horde with either Villians or horrible people? There is only a few good eggs in your list Chen is the only one id get behind really.

Doomhammer - Was a good Honourable leader but it will kill all Good faith we have with alliance
Jindo - Would rather turn people into Mindless slaves then rule a Horde
Magatha - I wouldnt trust her with anything close to leadership. Shed sooner back stab you to further her own goals
Sylvanas - Only if its before they butcherd her character
Kaelthas - Maybe he did improve alot due to his time in shadowlands
Gallywix - Rather look after his own skin would sell out his own race for this
Chen - Sure! Though hes mroe netrual then anything he doesnt like picking a side
Grommash - Homicadial Bloodthirsty Genicdial "Draenor is free!" Not till he was beheaded.
Elisande - Arogant and rather Side with Legion and save the "Higher ranks" Just liek Aszhara did.
Dragrul - power hungry and wants to wipe out all "Lesser races"
Dazar- Well we don know much about him so Sure?
Replace Vulpera with Mogu and Lei Shen - Yes Vulpera is hated so original and Lei shen? A tyrant who would prefer to Enslave the other races of the horse then work with them

[Flurryfang]

I would more advocate, that the Horde just get actual leaders.

Very few of them are built as actual leaders. Like, who even rule the trolls, orcs and undead anymore?
There is so little built up of leaders in the Horde, that they are either weak characters as leaders or are barely leaders.

The alliance is doing a bit better, since their leaders are actually being a part of the story, acting somewhat like leaders of their faction instead just adventurers.

So yeah, a lot is left to be wanted, but then again, what would you expect from Blizzard. They have clearly shown, that they care very little about world management and are more focused on making new spaces, where 95% of the story happens.

[Arikara]

Anduin is better then Thrall.

Lolno

Malfurion and Tyrande are better then Rokhan.

True enough.

The council of three hammers is better then Baine.

Arguably, but not an unreasonable conclusion

Gelbin is better then Gazlowe.

Mekkatorque is better than the trash that is Gallyvix. Gazlowe, though? Please.

Velen is better then Bob.

Lor'themar isn't particularly amazing, but neither is Velen. Both are guilty of sitting around aimlessly a lot. Really, they're about on par, perhaps favoring Theron slightly for having actual sass.

Genn Greymane is better then Voss.

Very arguable. All Genn has really done is be really salty about Sylvanas, which, while reasonable, does not a good character make. Voss, though, has had nothing but interesting character development.

Aysa is better then Ji.

I guess she is, but does anyone really care?

Alleria and Umbric are better then Thalyssra.

Lolno. All of the Windrunners need to hurry up and die so we can be rid of the lot of them for good.

Turyalon and Fareeya are better then Mayla.

Yeah, no.

Moira is better then Geya’rah.

True enough.

and Jaina is better then Talanji.

Not after they ruined her she isn't.

In conclusion, your list is heavily biased and all of the characters on your other list, with the exception of Chen and Ogrim, either deserved the death they received or need to hurry up and get killed off too, Magatha.

[ABK Morgan]

The problem with the horde leaders is that most of them are new, or newly appointed, so they haven't had a chance to do/be much of anything really. Most Alliance leaders have been around considerably longer or have had more spotlight opportunities in comparison.

I would love to see the "under-represented" or under utilized races/leaders brought to the forefront of the stories for awhile, and that's both Horde and Alliance races, if for no other reason than to make it more diverse, Humans and Orcs have had enough screen time, give us more Worgen, Draenei, Tauren and Goblin centered story/action, add the Allied Races in, flesh it out abit.

[loras]

Anduin is better then Thrall.
Malfurion and Tyrande are better then Rokhan.
The council of three hammers is better then Baine.
Gelbin is better then Gazlowe.
Velen is better then Bob.
Genn Greymane is better then Voss.
Aysa is better then Ji.
Alleria and Umbric are better then Thalyssra.
Turyalon and Fareeya are better then Mayla.
Moira is better then Geya’rah.
Erazmin is better then Kiro.
and Jaina is better then Talanji.

All in all the leaders the Horde currently has are nothing but utter trash. They need to die. Period. After they are killed a new Horde leadership would look like this:

Orcs - Doomhammer
Trolls - Jindo
Tauren - Magatha
Undead- Sylvanas
blood elves - Kael’thas
Goblins - Gallywix
Pandaren - Chen Stormstout
Mag’har -AU Grommash
Nightborne - Resurrected Elisande
Highmountain - Underking Dragrul
Zandalari - Resurrected King Dazar
and replace Vulpera with Mogu and bring back Lei-Shen

that is my perfect leadership for the Horde. And I will stop at nothing to get it. I hope Blizzard is reading this post and consider it a possibility.

Cheers. Your’s Grazrug.

In order:

Lolno - Thrall is way better
Tru
Tru
About equal, and not in a negative way
Also about equal, also not in a negative way
True for now, but Voss needs time as a leader
They're both nobody
Nope, Thalyssra rocks, Umbric is nobody and Alleriais mediocre at best (incoming wrath of the Varodoc, heh)
Tru
Tru
Again both nobody
True, though Talanji has potential

Frankly it sounds like you're just in denial about really wanting to play Alliance for the leaders for some reason.
And your suggestions for replacements are nothing but pure trash, edgy trash at that and that's not something i say often.

Fix yourself before trying to fix bigger things.

[Khaza-R]

Most of your suggestions are awful or don't make any sense. Jindo? First, it took me a good minute to even remember who that was. Secondly, what does he have to do with the Darkspear even?

Horde certainly has problem becoming just the red Alliance and losing all of their flavor since BfA but villain batting them again is not a solution.

[VinceVega]

I like the current leaders...

And they are not the megalomaniac socipaths you wrote here... the horde had that. ANd they started one war after another with the culmination of the Nightelve genocide which they never had any repercussion aside from sacking undercity which has been abandond by then....

Now they have a council where leaders actually can speak up without getting courtmartialed and executed.

It is not sustainable for a society to be at war for this long. Neither alliance nor horde should have any soldiers left. Alliance would have probably more as they are more numerous.

[Kithelle]

Damn...should have said Garrosh instead of Doomhammer, then would have been the perfect edgelord edition

[Varodoc]

Nope, Thalyssra rocks, Umbric is nobody and Alleriais mediocre at best (incoming wrath of the Varodoc, heh)

That you think this, is a shame. The Ren'dorei during the Fourth War were major MVPs for the Alliance. Alleria and her forces saved Anduin and his army from annihilation at Lordaeron, Umbric and his Void magic were needed to breach the defences of Zuldazar and put in motion the suicide plan at Nazmir. As you will recall, the Alliance's triumph at Zuldazar was the major turning point in the entire war, and it was made possible through the Ren'dorei's involvement.

Meanwhile, what did Thalyssra do during the Fourth War, again? Besides getting horny for Theron. Why exactly does she deserve more praise than Alleria and Umbric who were MVPs for the Alliance?

The community cared about the Void elves in BfA, some of the most frequent theories involved the Old Gods, Alleria, the datamined Silvermoon Warfront. Meanwhile, I can't recall any major discussions around the Nightborne back during BfA.

[Feanoro]

How many times are you going to make this thread, Grazrug?

Why are people responding?

Why aren't these threads deleted as duplicates?

[loras]

That you think this, is a shame. The Ren'dorei during the Fourth War were major MVPs for the Alliance. Alleria and her forces saved Anduin and his army from annihilation at Lordaeron, Umbric and his Void magic were needed to breach the defences of Zuldazar and put in motion the suicide plan at Nazmir. As you will recall, the Alliance's triumph at Zuldazar was the major turning point in the entire war, and it was made possible through the Ren'dorei's involvement.

Meanwhile, what did Thalyssra do during the Fourth War, again? Besides getting horny for Theron. Why exactly does she deserve more praise than Alleria and Umbric who were MVPs for the Alliance?

The community cared about the Void elves in BfA, some of the most frequent theories involved the Old Gods, Alleria, the datamined Silvermoon Warfront. Meanwhile, I can't recall any major discussions around the Nightborne back during BfA.

Sorry mate, not gonna bother with this right now.
Perhaps another time.

Though it should be noted that it was about the leaders, not the people in general.

[Loreth88]

Sorry mate, not gonna bother with this right now.
Perhaps another time.

Though it should be noted that it was about the leaders, not the people in general.

I'am not big fun neither of them, but Alleria have more achievement of her lifetime them the High on Arcane, it's mostly because She introduced later in warcraft lore and i like Ly'leth Lunastre more.

[Varodoc]

Sorry mate, not gonna bother with this right now.
Perhaps another time.

Though it should be noted that it was about the leaders, not the people in general.

I was talking about the two Void elf characters in the lore, so their two leaders.

People in this thread are taking for granted that the Horde leaders are sooo much better than Alleria and Umbric, but, last I checked, Alleria played a pivotal, critical role in the last war when she saved the Alliance army from annihilation (along with Gnome leader Mekkatorque), and Umbric, with his contributions, pretty much allowed the Alliance to win in the Battle of Zuldazar, which was the turning point in the war.

Meanwhile, all Horde leaders except Saurfang, Baine, and Theron were doing nothing in the war, they were literally afk. Aside from the aforementioned 3, who were conspiring with the Alliance to overthrow Sylvanas. Even Sylvanas barely did anything in the war, it was Nathanos (not a leader btw) who did the dirty work.

It seems to me that, objectively speaking, based on their contributions to the story and conflict in the small amount of screentime they have been given, Alleria and Umbric have proven to be way better than most Horde leaders.

Fun fact: Magister Umbric is the only racial leader who was a follower in the BfA War campaign (Voss was also a follower, but back then she wasn't the leader of anyone). So, Canonically, Magister Umbric was being sent on missions across many battlefields and kicking ass, unlike his colleagues.