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  1. #1

    Has WoW become more " pay to win"?

    It feels like it's been a slow steady road since the introduction of the token and the removal of most mobs dropping crafting mats beyond meat and cloth.

    The changes to crafting in dragon flight seem another extension to this. Rather then getting easily made consumables they are now going to be multiple qualities in a community that has proven time and time again they only accept the best last seen with leggos?

    It just feels like over time they either want to push players towards boosting or doing trivial mission boards in order to get items that used to be more readily available by farming. There is a chance I'm over thinking this but it feels like they are designing parts of the game around moving tokens rather then being enjoyable.

  2. #2
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    It is pretty conspicuous that they gave the Brutosaur mount a humongous price tag and then announced that they were going to remove the mount after a while. Obviously drawing inspiration from GW2 and trying to drive up WoW token sales and squeezing out the dimes out of their players.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It feels like it's been a slow steady road since the introduction of the token and the removal of most mobs dropping crafting mats beyond meat and cloth.
    Mobs have never really dropped crafting mats beyond meat, cloth and greens, and they still drop all of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    The changes to crafting in dragon flight seem another extension to this. Rather then getting easily made consumables they are now going to be multiple qualities in a community that has proven time and time again they only accept the best last seen with leggos?
    As far as I can tell from the previews they've given us, the higher your crafting level, the easier it is to craft high quality items. This will mean that starting out, you'll likely have your RWF raiders spending huge amounts on the random high quality consumables that people get, but that over time nearly all consumables will be high quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It just feels like over time they either want to push players towards boosting or doing trivial mission boards in order to get items that used to be more readily available by farming. There is a chance I'm over thinking this but it feels like they are designing parts of the game around moving tokens rather then being enjoyable.
    Given they've yet to remove in-world gathering of materials, or really impacted it in any way, I find it hard to believe they're trying to push people in to tokens/boosting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    Mobs have never really dropped crafting mats beyond meat, cloth and greens, and they still drop all of those.


    As far as I can tell from the previews they've given us, the higher your crafting level, the easier it is to craft high quality items. This will mean that starting out, you'll likely have your RWF raiders spending huge amounts on the random high quality consumables that people get, but that over time nearly all consumables will be high quality.


    Given they've yet to remove in-world gathering of materials, or really impacted it in any way, I find it hard to believe they're trying to push people in to tokens/boosting.
    Gutting gold value from running old raids and overpricing the Shadowlands legendaries alone seems to have been them trying to push boosting.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    It is pretty conspicuous that they gave the Brutosaur mount a humongous price tag and then announced that they were going to remove the mount after a while. Obviously drawing inspiration from GW2 and trying to drive up WoW token sales and squeezing out the dimes out of their players.
    the fact that its being removed kinda contradicts that theory,whats more likely is that mounts like the spider and the bronto were added to act as a gold sink for the vast general wealth players made in wod,if its purpose was to just drive up token sales,why remove it?wile im sure it made many players rush and get it before it was gone,surely just keeping it for many more years would have been more value for them

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    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Gutting gold value from running old raids and overpricing the Shadowlands legendaries alone seems to have been them trying to push boosting.
    cmon,gold from old raids or not,that method was a joke time wise and profit wise vs boosting

  6. #6
    Ah yes, I'm looking forward to the next 100-page thread where people argue semantics about what the word "win" means.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    the fact that its being removed kinda contradicts that theory,whats more likely is that mounts like the spider and the bronto were added to act as a gold sink for the vast general wealth players made in wod,if its purpose was to just drive up token sales,why remove it?wile im sure it made many players rush and get it before it was gone,surely just keeping it for many more years would have been more value for them

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    cmon,gold from old raids or not,that method was a joke time wise and profit wise vs boosting
    I mean they didnt remove it they moved it to the bmah

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I mean they didnt remove it they moved it to the bmah
    sure,but isnt pretty much anything on bmah?and yeah it goes for gold cap,but whats better?a permanent unlimited 5m sink or a rare 10m

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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Ah yes, I'm looking forward to the next 100-page thread where people argue semantics about what the word "win" means.
    the people that argue semantics are just wrong,there is no opinion here,p2w is p2w,the only nuance is in the degree,the worst kind of p2w is diablo immoral where you can only get something by paying and you jump ahead 50 years in progress compared to f2p,then you have pay for convenience,you are still winning,be it time or currency etc,then there is wow somewhere in the middle where you can just buy everything the game has to offer with gold,f2p can also get it sure,but only if they have the time or skill to do so

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    sure,but isnt pretty much anything on bmah?and yeah it goes for gold cap,but whats better?a permanent unlimited 5m sink or a rare 10m

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    the people that argue semantics are just wrong,there is no opinion here,p2w is p2w,the only nuance is in the degree,the worst kind of p2w is diablo immoral where you can only get something by paying and you jump ahead 50 years in progress compared to f2p,then you have pay for convenience,you are still winning,be it time or currency etc,then there is wow somewhere in the middle where you can just buy everything the game has to offer with gold,f2p can also get it sure,but only if they have the time or skill to do so
    It's worse but it is kind of a what's worse to have cancer or aids argument.

  10. #10
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Great...another thread where people don't understand what pay to win is

    Diablo Immortal is pay to win...World of Warcraft isn't pay to in

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Great...another thread where people don't understand what pay to win is

    Diablo Immortal is pay to win...World of Warcraft isn't pay to in
    how is getting everything ingame by using $$$ not p2w?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Great...another thread where people don't understand what pay to win is

    Diablo Immortal is pay to win...World of Warcraft isn't pay to in
    It's pay to buy progress.
    Which still sucks d*ck as this is supposed to be a rpg i think.

    And to add to that it's quite funny that it has ramped up in not only the retail version with boosting being absolutely huge but also the classic version with 90% or so of pugs being gdkp with just ridiculous amounts of gold purchases.
    Last edited by Caprias; 2022-07-09 at 05:12 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It's worse but it is kind of a what's worse to have cancer or aids argument.
    The difference is that people actually care about whether they contract AIDS or cancer. Nothing meaningful comes from the discussion about WoW being P2W. It always ends up with people angry with one another for not implicitly agreeing with their universal definition of P2W. Then they start quoting the dictionary and shit. It's the same thing every time the topic comes up.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    It's pay to buy progress.
    Which still sucks d*ck as this is supposed to be a rpg i think.
    no its literaly pay money to get everything you want,but people for some reason shortcircuit because theres a middleman involved

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    no its literaly pay money to get everything you want,but people for some reason shortcircuit because theres a middleman involved
    "But the stuff you can buy is not "winning" blabla, let me get my dictionary blabla, i decide what winning is to me blabla."

    So yeah I just won't get into those semantics and just say it's clearly pay2buy progress and it really takes away from an mmorpg.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    "But the stuff you can buy is not "winning" blabla, let me get my dictionary blabla, i decide what winning is to me blabla."

    So yeah I just won't get into those semantics and just say it's clearly pay2buy progress and it really takes away from an mmorpg.
    isnt every p2w model by default p2progress if the game has a progression system?

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    By the definition some People use to describe Pay2Win, WoW has always been Pay2Win. Literally every MMO in History has been by that Logic.

  18. #18
    Oh no, not this again. This topic is pointless to discuss here.

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Hey guys, if I pay Chico to beat the game for me, am I winning? According to forums, of course I am. Hence, the game is pay to win.

    Close the tabloid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    By the definition some People use to describe Pay2Win, WoW has always been Pay2Win. Literally every MMO in History has been by that Logic.
    Every fucking game.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    Gutting gold value from running old raids and overpricing the Shadowlands legendaries alone seems to have been them trying to push boosting.
    I have been playing since TBC. They are constantly reducing the amount of gold you can gain from running old raids. It is very clear that they never intended for this to be a means of solo-player income, and whenever it tips the scale, they nerf it. They've been doing it for over a decade. This is nothing new and had nothing to do with Shadowlands legendaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Ah yes, I'm looking forward to the next 100-page thread where people argue semantics about what the word "win" means.
    Perhaps it's because the situation isn't clear cut.

    Nothing has changed in how players can progress, except that it has become easier for those with excess income to acquire gold, and for those with excess gold to get around the rules and regulations to buy services to have an increased chance at advancing their characters (with M+, there's never any guarantee).

    But these people always existed, and would still exist even without the wow token. The big difference is that the WoW Token system has also enabled tons of people to play the game without dropping a dime, even on a subscription service, if they put in the time and play the auction house.

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