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  1. #241
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    They stated there’d be two extra options “slightly skinner and slightly bulkier”, nothing about a significantly bulkier option.

    It’s likely 2 is what they showed in the previews. 1 was the slightly skinnier option, and 3 was the slightly bulkier.

    It’s likely they delayed the blog post so they could work on option 4 and redo the preview to include it.
    It's not likely at all. You simply misread the developer blog where they specifically said there would be slightly bulkier options. And yes, I do consider option 4 to be slightly bulkier, not the hulking mass you guys wanted them to be.

    In any case, if you want to actually believe your crusade is moving Blizzard to give you the dragon race/class that what you want, knock yourselves out.

  2. #242
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    The heads need to be bigger or the necks a bit shorter...maybe both. It looks awkwardly small. Especially since some of the horns are so massive, it makes the heads stand out more compared to the shoulder/chest ratio
    It depends on how they move in-game. We gotta first see gameplay of a Dracthyr being looked from behind, with spell effects and other movements.

    If that thing is supposed to do lots of neck and head movement to breath magic and what else then the long neck will be better. And a long neck with a big head looks like a mushroom so they probably made the heads "smaller" because of that.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's your problem; You actually believe that you caused option 4 to happen, seemingly ignoring that they stated we were getting that option back when they announced the race.
    I stand by what Nightshade said. Body 4 is significantly bulkier than 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I personally am glad they listened and added option 4. It personally fixed my main gripe with the race.




    Though I think the only thing we’re not getting out of that is the visible teeth, it looked like we were getting stuff on the chins.
    (And the glowing black dragon stuff but that’s not gonna happen unfortunately.)

    But I do wish there were options for the visible teeth, almost every dragon we’ve seen in-game has them.

    - - - Updated - - -


    They stated there’d be two extra options “slightly skinner and slightly bulkier”, nothing about a significantly bulkier option.

    It’s likely 2 is what they showed in the previews. 1 was the slightly skinnier option, and 3 was the slightly bulkier.

    It’s likely they delayed the blog post so they could work on option 4 and redo the preview to include it.
    Body 4 is tolerable for sure.

    I feel you mate and I feel you as fuck. Like you said almost all of them dragons have visible teeth. This shit is pretty iconic for them. It makes them look a lot more brutal.

    For me tho the most important is jaw and chin. I care bout tendrils and teeth too but first and foremost I want masculine, edgy head option for my Soythyr.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    The heads need to be bigger or the necks a bit shorter...maybe both. It looks awkwardly small. Especially since some of the horns are so massive, it makes the heads stand out more compared to the shoulder/chest ratio
    Oh yeah man that too. Someone on reddit posted this edit



    Neck length option would be cool.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    I stand by what Nightshade said. Body 4 is significantly bulkier than 1.


    Body 4 is tolerable for sure.

    I feel you mate and I feel you as fuck. Like you said almost all of them dragons have visible teeth. This shit is pretty iconic for them. It makes them look a lot more brutal.

    For me tho the most important is jaw and chin. I care bout tendrils and teeth too but first and foremost I want masculine, edgy head option for my Soythyr.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh yeah man that too. Someone on reddit posted this edit



    Neck length option would be cool.
    Oh damn, it does look nicer with the shorter neck imo. The stance feels a bit more awkward atm.

  5. #245
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    It depends on how they move in-game. We gotta first see gameplay of a Dracthyr being looked from behind, with spell effects and other movements.

    If that thing is supposed to do lots of neck and head movement to breath magic and what else then the long neck will be better. And a long neck with a big head looks like a mushroom so they probably made the heads "smaller" because of that.
    That's a good point. The heads look fine on the thinnest body options, but as the bulk builds up that's when it starts to bother me.

    That being said, I'll still cross my fingers. It took them a while to realize that permanent BE duck lips and Female Worgen Chihuahuas just look weird. Sometimes things that look strange the first go around just look strange.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    I stand by what Nightshade said. Body 4 is significantly bulkier than 1.


    Body 4 is tolerable for sure.

    I feel you mate and I feel you as fuck. Like you said almost all of them dragons have visible teeth. This shit is pretty iconic for them. It makes them look a lot more brutal.

    For me tho the most important is jaw and chin. I care bout tendrils and teeth too but first and foremost I want masculine, edgy head option for my Soythyr.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Oh yeah man that too. Someone on reddit posted this edit



    Neck length option would be cool.
    Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. Either option would probably fix the issue since it's very slight but gives a lot more to the desired bulky presentation.
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  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    Oh damn, it does look nicer with the shorter neck imo. The stance feels a bit more awkward atm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. Either option would probably fix the issue since it's very slight but gives a lot more to the desired bulky presentation.

    It's all about the little things. Given enough polish it might actually shine.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    It's all about the little things. Given enough polish it might actually shine.
    Good thing World of Warcraft and artistic preference and potentially staying away from legal issues from design overlap isn't a democratic issue like you attempt to want it to be, lmao.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    Good thing World of Warcraft and artistic preference and potentially staying away from legal issues from design overlap isn't a democratic issue like you attempt to want it to be, lmao.
    What now mate? Those changes are based on dragons we have in game. It's all WoW. No legal issues. Artistic preference is worth a cumless cock if it doesn't capture the style the game is using.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Have you seen proportions of the draenei?
    Or humans for that matter. They literally ARE Dragonball z characters with their muscles lol

  10. #250
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    The heads need to be bigger or the necks a bit shorter...maybe both. It looks awkwardly small. Especially since some of the horns are so massive, it makes the heads stand out more compared to the shoulder/chest ratio
    The size of the model's head was my main complaint on the heels of these new body types. Even on the original model, the head on the Dracthyr seems disproportionally small to me - but as someone else pointed out, it could be a factor of not seeing the model in motion, which can change how proportionality plays out in the end. I still think the head and horns should be perhaps a touch larger overall, but I'll have to reserve my final judgment until I can see the model in action in-game.
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  11. #251
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Why do people still keep saying that the in-game dragon heads are different from Dracthyr's? Screenshots were already linked showing how they are practically the same thing save the gross underbite they usually have and that no one here wants.

    This is why Blizzard doesn't listen to their fans - they are bloody clueless.



    Maybe we need a beard? Beard would be cool.

  12. #252
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Why do people still keep saying that the in-game dragon heads are different from Dracthyr's? Screenshots were already linked showing how they are practically the same thing save the gross underbite they usually have and that no one here wants.

    This is why Blizzard doesn't listen to their fans - they are bloody clueless.



    Maybe we need a beard? Beard would be cool.
    Idk I personally would like the underbite, or at least visible teeth.
    That’s the only real thing missing for me on the Dracthyr faces.

  13. #253
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The size of the model's head was my main complaint on the heels of these new body types. Even on the original model, the head on the Dracthyr seems disproportionally small to me - but as someone else pointed out, it could be a factor of not seeing the model in motion, which can change how proportionality plays out in the end. I still think the head and horns should be perhaps a touch larger overall, but I'll have to reserve my final judgment until I can see the model in action in-game.
    They were right in that I should be patient, but at the same time when you're usually looking at these details in game, your character is idle. If it looks bad when they're not using casting animations, that awkward reality is what we'll have to deal with most of the time.

    I'd take clipping over weirdly tiny heads for an animation that lasts for 3 seconds
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  14. #254
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    They were right in that I should be patient, but at the same time when you're usually looking at these details in game, your character is idle. If it looks bad when they're not using casting animations, that awkward reality is what we'll have to deal with most of the time.

    I'd take clipping over weirdly tiny heads for an animation that lasts for 3 seconds
    I feel the same, although model clipping also bothers me a great deal - it's something I've just had to get used to when it comes to WoW, though. But just having the character in a zone, where there are other factors that can change how the characters look for purposes of scale, that can also change how the overall proportionality of the model comes across. It'd be really nice to see an actual 3D rendering that I could move or manipulate, like in a model viewer, to make some final determinations.
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  15. #255
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse12 View Post
    Your whole outlook is incredibly self centered. There is a ‘problem’ with their lore or story because you say there is. Their story is their story. Period. Now if you think there’s some inconsistencies or if there are some retcons to it then that’s fine and understandable to say there’s a problem. To straight up say there’s a problem because you envisioned them in a different way is just silly. What you’re imagining is a different race, not dracthyr. Dracthyr are not this big bulky warrior type dragon (or draknoid or whatever) race you are wishing would become playable.
    First, yes, indeed there was inconsistencies and retcons in their creation.

    Second, yes, there is a problem in the design, not because "what I envisioned" but what the general people expected.

    No one asked for a "dractyr evoker", a race and a class at the same time that is fucking locked to be only one class, people asked for a draconic humanoid race, pretty much like dragonborns in similar rpgs and the dragonsworn class that use the power of dragons since early times
    This is literally like saying “there’s a major problem with Arthas, he should have been a mage because that’s how I envisioned his story.”
    That is not "literally" that is just another false equivalence, But hey, what if they made the death knight class, a mage and not a plate armor guy? now you see how it would be a problem design wise? that is "literally" what happened, a problem in the design trying to cut effort.
    That’s not his story. He isn’t a mage. Just like dracthyr are not what you envisioned. What you’re envisioning isn’t dracthyr. Your beef isn’t with dracthyr, your beef is that they didn’t release a draknoid playable race that’s fits your criteria for a story and aesthetics.
    dracthyr was made yesterday with the purpose of being limiting and bad just so that they don't have to work on it besides skin colors, its straight up a design problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Again, *you* have a problem with the design, but a lot of people are fine with their design as evidenced by this very thread.
    And a lot of people have a problem with the design, and you still keep trying to make its only me, straight up cherrypicking comments at this point

    You were the one who crouched as some kind of agenda on the part of the developers to make you unhappy - that's pretty much what a conspiracy is. I highly doubt there was any high-level discussion where the developers set out to irritate people.
    i never said a thing about a agenda or a conspiracy, so again, youa re making a strawman out of it, maybe you are confusing me with another user, and maybe thats why you think its only me who is not a fan of their design?

    When you posited yourself as "the community," saying that the community wanted this, or didn't want this, etc., etc.

    So, you are the community to say that was false?
    Saying a thing doesn't automatically make it factual. Explain how it's "100% false equivalence," because, in my view, the fact that they can and have repeated motifs for playable races and classes completely invalidates your argument on this point.
    Why i don't explain? because it will be ignored either way, but lets see:
    All 4 elf subraces are 100% different in thematic, the blood elves are light and arcane based elves with the sunwell, nightborne are arcane elves, 100% different from the night elves who are nature based and void elves who are void corrupted ones

    but sure, you will spin how they are the same thus meaning another humanoid dragon race and another class that use dragon powers are 100% a possibility, despite they not even making a necromancer because it share some themes with death knights.

    You're not the community, and I'm not the community. There is no community in this regard, save for the constructed public put forth as unfounded evidence. There is a group of people, sure - and that group all want different things, and some of them are satisfied with what they've been given, and still others don't care in the least. It's kind of pointless to keep trumpeting on about "the community" when you really only have your own voice to speak with. This very thread belies the notion that there is some vast current of people who are angry or put out by the Dracthyr.
    h ok, so, now that we lost the argument, that you know the community/people/playerbase use the name you want, did in fact, asked for a humanoid race and class we are going to shift the premise and start to discuss about the semantics of what truly is the community


    People wanted more body types, and they got them - I'm unsure what exactly you're trying to claim here.

    Oh waow, so, if people want good, you toss then a living chiken, they got what they want right? no problem anymore, that is just gold

    people didn't want "just more body types" and its bananas to say it was only that that they want and since they did more body types they got what they want, just bananas

    The posted article itself says: "This is just a sampling of the variety of options that players will have at their fingertips to create their Dracthyr Evoker to carry them into new adventures in the Dragon Isles" strongly implying that there are more customization options in the pipeline as we speak. I think you have your mind prematurely concluded here, and as per the above, that's a you issue.
    If there are more, and there are options that cater to the people who want those options, why the fuck they did not showcase then? thats right, because they did not exist yet, or will not be a thing at all

    And you keep trying to make this about "me", when again, is a design issue, while doing the same mantra people do in every alpha/beta

    So basically you're trying to claim you never said that, but you agree with it regardless? That's less of a rebuttal than you think it is. And how exactly are Evokers "Demon Hunter 2.0?" They're not an Agility-based melee class with two melee specializations, they're a ranged DPS/Healer class - they don't serve any of the roles of a DH, and they're not going to compete with the DH in any way, shape, or form.
    Yeah, i never said that, and claiming that i did it was a lie, regardless.

    Evokers/dracthyr are 100% demon hunter 2.0, you have two elves who turn into a demon form to fight, they went beyond that, and made an elf/human that turn into a dragon form, the only difference is that they can remain in their dragon form, unlike demon hunter

    They straight up used the legion class idea to cut effort and sell as a race as well, but im sure you just focused on "b-b-but one is a healer, and ranger!!!", of course it is, it would be just too on the face otherwise.

  16. #256
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And a lot of people have a problem with the design, and you still keep trying to make its only me, straight up cherrypicking comments at this point
    The thread we're currently in isn't "cherrypicking" comments, it's quite literally the active context of the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i never said a thing about a agenda or a conspiracy, so again, youa re making a strawman out of it, maybe you are confusing me with another user, and maybe thats why you think its only me who is not a fan of their design?
    Your original statement certainly implied it - why else say "[p]eople wanted drakonids/humanoid dragon as race and a dragonsworn class, they perverted the idea and made demon hunter 2.0," as if the active intent was to "pervert" people's expectations in the manner you claimed? I'm not confusing you with anyone else, you pretty much stated outright their agenda was to pervert fan expectations, and that's the conspiracy I'm referring to. Otherwise, it's just you and a handful of others disappointed you got X instead of Y, which I underscored was more a personal issue on your score and not any kind of agenda.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    So, you are the community to say that was false?
    This is both a strawman and an active attempt to misconstrue what I actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    All 4 elf subraces are 100% different in thematic, the blood elves are light and arcane based elves with the sunwell, nightborne are arcane elves, 100% different from the night elves who are nature based and void elves who are void corrupted ones

    but sure, you will spin how they are the same thus meaning another humanoid dragon race and another class that use dragon powers are 100% a possibility, despite they not even making a necromancer because it share some themes with death knights.
    The Dracthyr and a melee-based Drakonid class would also be 100% different in terms of themes, aesthetics, and gameplay style. The Necromancer issue is just more goalpost-shifting, and we've already covered that ground ad nauseum. People said they would never make a Demon Hunter class because Warlocks exist, and then they made a Demon Hunter class. People said they'd never make the Nightborne an allied race because both the Horde and Alliance already had elven races, and then they made them an Allied Race and created an entirely new elven race whole-cloth as well. People said they'd never make another race that would start off neutral and could choose to be Horde or Alliance after the Pandaren, and now the Dracthyr have the same choice. How many times will it take for that particular argument to be tired enough to put to bed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    h ok, so, now that we lost the argument, that you know the community/people/playerbase use the name you want, did in fact, asked for a humanoid race and class we are going to shift the premise and start to discuss about the semantics of what truly is the community
    That's not semantics, it's breaking down an argument tactic where a false notion of what is or isn't acceptable is put forth as means to bolster or negate a specific argument, because "the community" does or doesn't want a given thing. There is no unified community that wants X or Y, just random people with different opinions. Even people who are dissatisfied with the Dracthyr put forth different and often contradictory reasons for it. The issue is with assuming you have a support base that 1:1 agrees with your stance, and I'm saying you don't. Nor do I, but since my stance doesn't require a support base, and I never claimed I had one, that's kind of a non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Oh waow, so, if people want good, you toss then a living chiken, they got what they want right? no problem anymore, that is just gold

    people didn't want "just more body types" and its bananas to say it was only that that they want and since they did more body types they got what they want, just bananas
    The conversation is about Dracthyr body types and customization options. If you want to play another sport entirely, there are different threads for that - and if there aren't, you're free to create the thread you do want to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    If there are more, and there are options that cater to the people who want those options, why the fuck they did not showcase then? thats right, because they did not exist yet, or will not be a thing at all

    And you keep trying to make this about "me", when again, is a design issue, while doing the same mantra people do in every alpha/beta
    You can't showcase something that isn't completed, as you yourself point out. I'm not sure what this mantra you're referring to is, but I assume it's about Alpha material being what we'll be stuck with in Live or somesuch? I don't know if you've never played a WoW Alpha or Beta before, but if you have you'll surely notice that a *lot* changes from version to version and patch to patch. Hell, back in the MoP Beta Taran Zhu died in a Dread Wastes quest. Not to mention the fact that they've added customization options all over the place, even outside the Alpha/Beta iteration cycle. Again, I think you're operating on an irrationally pessimistic framework, which again, is entirely a you problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yeah, i never said that, and claiming that i did it was a lie, regardless.

    Evokers/dracthyr are 100% demon hunter 2.0, you have two elves who turn into a demon form to fight, they went beyond that, and made an elf/human that turn into a dragon form, the only difference is that they can remain in their dragon form, unlike demon hunter

    They straight up used the legion class idea to cut effort and sell as a race as well, but im sure you just focused on "b-b-but one is a healer, and ranger!!!", of course it is, it would be just too on the face otherwise.
    You certainly seemed to be intimating it, and regardless of your specific words, you still agreed with my presentation of what you said - so it definitely isn't a lie, and you explicitly believe it to be true. Again, that's not the rebuttal you think it is.

    Your own example points out a key way in which the two classes are different - so not 100% the same by your own admission. You then agreed that they don't have the same specializations at all, while again positing some kind of agenda on the part of the developers to somehow mask this as being a copy/paste of the Demon Hunter? I'm losing track of the conspiracies at play here. So you're saying the developers lazily copied the Demon Hunter to make the Evoker class, while also changing its outward appearance to be draconic, changing how its forms work, giving it entirely different abilities and specialization, and entirely different gameplay - but it's the same class because... reasons? I'm not seeing it.
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  17. #257
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I feel the same, although model clipping also bothers me a great deal - it's something I've just had to get used to when it comes to WoW, though. But just having the character in a zone, where there are other factors that can change how the characters look for purposes of scale, that can also change how the overall proportionality of the model comes across. It'd be really nice to see an actual 3D rendering that I could move or manipulate, like in a model viewer, to make some final determinations.
    Good thing wowhead will data-mine the hell out of everything with decent model viewers the second they can.
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  18. #258
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    Good thing wowhead will data-mine the hell out of everything with decent model viewers the second they can.
    I assume that'll happen the instant the Alpha NDA gets lifted.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    First, yes, indeed there was inconsistencies and retcons in their creation.

    Second, yes, there is a problem in the design, not because "what I envisioned" but what the general people expected.
    I would love to hear these retcons and inconsistencies. Please let me hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    No one asked for a "dractyr evoker", a race and a class at the same time that is fucking locked to be only one class, people asked for a draconic humanoid race, pretty much like dragonborns in similar rpgs and the dragonsworn class that use the power of dragons since early times
    "People"

    You mean you lol. This to me is a draconic humanoid race, I didn't ask for the single class/race combo but you know what? I like the idea of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    That is not "literally" that is just another false equivalence, But hey, what if they made the death knight class, a mage and not a plate armor guy? now you see how it would be a problem design wise? that is "literally" what happened, a problem in the design trying to cut effort.


    You can't just call it a false equivalence and then call it a day. Why is it false exactly? Because it isn't, it is the exact same thing.

    And no your analogy is terrible. You know why? Because deathknights were already a class in the warcraft universe. They were already unholy warriors, basically the opposite of a paladin. Making them a mage is not even remotely similar to making the dracthyr evokers. If that class or race already existed in the universe to be one thing and they just completely changed it to be another, then you would have a point. But at this moment you have none. None at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    dracthyr was made yesterday with the purpose of being limiting and bad just so that they don't have to work on it besides skin colors, its straight up a design problem.
    Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance?

  20. #260
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The thread we're currently in isn't "cherrypicking" comments, it's quite literally the active context of the discussion.
    You straight up said its only a "me" problem, despite having other people complaining still.

    That is the context you are missing.


    Your original statement certainly implied it - why else say "[p]eople wanted drakonids/humanoid dragon as race and a dragonsworn class, they perverted the idea and made demon hunter 2.0," as if the active intent was to "pervert" people's expectations in the manner you claimed? I'm not confusing you with anyone else, you pretty much stated outright their agenda was to pervert fan expectations, and that's the conspiracy I'm referring to. Otherwise, it's just you and a handful of others disappointed you got X instead of Y, which I underscored was more a personal issue on your score and not any kind of agenda.
    Blizzard taking a perfect fine idea from the community and making garbage is normal, not an "conspiracy" or an "agenda", this is path of the course with their idea of more profit for less effort.

    The allied race was literally that, they took the idea of the subraces that the community asked(and they did many times aknowledge the community wanted that) and instead of just doing, they made the allied races.

    Now, instead of just doing like MOP with pandarens and monks, they came up with a garbage idea of a class that can be only one race and a race that can only be one class, and the sad aprt, besides the awful model is how people keep defending blizzard by their lazyness.
    This is both a strawman and an active attempt to misconstrue what I actually said.
    So, you are not the community, got it.

    The Dracthyr and a melee-based Drakonid class would also be 100% different in terms of themes, aesthetics, and gameplay style.
    In terms of gameplay? maybe, but the problem is that a dragonsworn class was a caster already, so you aready took their entire thing

    thats precisely because it is what i said, they took dragownsworn and drakonid/humanoid dragon, and instead of doing right, they made this "the innovate idea" of a race that can only be a class, because they are in fact, just demon hunter 2.0 and demon hunters can't be another class.

    The Necromancer issue is just more goalpost-shifting, and we've already covered that ground ad nauseum.
    You brought up the necromancer thing, and blizzard straight up said the Death knights already fill that fantasy, despite necromancer and death knight being fundamentally different

    If they can say that to two classes clearly different, why do you think they would do another draconic class that is a caster in the next 10 years? this is beyond wishful thinking.
    People said they would never make a Demon Hunter class because Warlocks exist, and then they made a Demon Hunter class
    And that isn't vallid because at least, warlocks were not melee, the classes literally filled different niches and thematics
    People said they'd never make the Nightborne an allied race because both the Horde and Alliance already had elven races,
    Nobody said that, people literally said and wanted then to be a subrace of night elves

    People said they'd never make another race that would start off neutral and could choose to be Horde or Alliance after the Pandaren, and now the Dracthyr have the same choice. How many times will it take for that particular argument to be tired enough to put to bed?
    ITs funny how now you can say "people" did this, and people did "that", but you can't acknowledge that people asked for dragonsworn and a drakonid race and people are not happy with their model and say its only me



    That's not semantics, it's breaking down an argument tactic where a false notion of what is or isn't acceptable is put forth as means to bolster or negate a specific argument, because "the community" does or doesn't want a given thing. There is no unified community that wants X or Y, just random people with different opinions. Even people who are dissatisfied with the Dracthyr put forth different and often contradictory reasons for it. The issue is with assuming you have a support base that 1:1 agrees with your stance, and I'm saying you don't. Nor do I, but since my stance doesn't require a support base, and I never claimed I had one, that's kind of a non-issue.
    i never said the community as a whole want X or Y, you are trying to act like there is not different communities, playerbases or people playing this game, and, instead of arguing about the issue, you preffer to go for the semantics of the thing.

    Answer, truthfully, if a large amount of players didn't asked for a dragonsworn class and humanoid dragons race, so we can put this argument to rest and you stop saying it was just "me".

    The conversation is about Dracthyr body types and customization options. If you want to play another sport entirely, there are different threads for that - and if there aren't, you're free to create the thread you do want to discuss.
    Another sport...? are you for real?

    People asked for buffy options like the fanart in my signature, they didn't asked for just "more body options"

    You are dumbing down the request by saying they just asked for more body options, thats it, and since they did got new body options, they got what they want, ignoring they did not got what they asked for, truly gold


    You can't showcase something that isn't completed, as you yourself point out
    Exactly, you can't show something they didn't do, therefore, validating my argument that they didn't give what the people wanted, because they didn't even had done yet.

    . I'm not sure what this mantra you're referring to is, but I assume it's about Alpha material being what we'll be stuck with in Live or somesuch? I don't know if you've never played a WoW Alpha or Beta before,

    OH yah, i did play alpha or beta before, and its precisely what im saying i doubt things will change, exactly because ~~ some people ~~ who like to dismiss vallid complains saying its just "their problem" or saying "its just alpha"

    The alpha and the beta is the right time to complain about their garbage modelgoddammit, otherwise they will not change, not after the expansion launch, so skip us with this nonsense, and let people who are not satisfied with the model voice their opinions

    If some people liked? good, wonderful, its not like we are wanting then to remove their stuff, just add more, that would bennefit everyone.

    You certainly seemed to be intimating it, and regardless of your specific words, you still agreed with my presentation of what you said - so it definitely isn't a lie, and you explicitly believe it to be true. Again, that's not the rebuttal you think it is.
    Me "thinking the same" does not change the fact that you lied about something i didn't say, that is a fact.

    Your own example points out a key way in which the two classes are different - so not 100% the same by your own admission. You then agreed that they don't have the same specializations at all, while again positing some kind of agenda on the part of the developers to somehow mask this as being a copy/paste of the Demon Hunter? I'm losing track of the conspiracies at play here. So you're saying the developers lazily copied the Demon Hunter to make the Evoker class, while also changing its outward appearance to be draconic, changing how its forms work, giving it entirely different abilities and specialization, and entirely different gameplay - but it's the same class because... reasons? I'm not seeing it.
    I mean, you can keep going with this absurdism falalcy, but its clear to anyone who want to see, its the same recipe, elf turning into a demon form, elf turning into a dragon form, 2 subclasses, they can't be another class, obviously, but all those things are not true at all, just conspiracy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse12 View Post
    I would love to hear these retcons and inconsistencies. Please let me hear it.
    Looking at your post history, i dont think you can handle, you will just dismiss everything.



    "People"

    You mean you lol. This to me is a draconic humanoid race, I didn't ask for the single class/race combo but you know what? I like the idea of it.
    Yeah, tis only me who complained in this entire thread, and yeah, you are part of the problem of why they will not make significant changes

    You can't just call it a false equivalence and then call it a day. Why is it false exactly? Because it isn't, it is the exact same thing.
    ITs a false equivalence because they are not the same, do i have to spell that out?
    And no your analogy is terrible. You know why? Because deathknights were already a class in the warcraft universe.
    and you know what? Dragonsworn were already a class in the warcraft universe too

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