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  1. #301
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    The head / body ratio look fine in gameplay videos. I too was afraid that the head would look small but with a proper range of movement, back angle and adornments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doombringer View Post
    at least give them pecs that can drive those arms and more importantly those WINGS of theirs
    Mate their wings are connected to their backs. I don't know which muscles some fantasy apendages connect to but the Dracthyr wings don't depend on their chest bulk in the same way a bat or Smaug does.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    The head / body ratio look fine in gameplay videos. I too was afraid that the head would look small but with a proper range of movement, back angle and adornments.

    Mate their wings are connected to their backs. I don't know which muscles some fantasy apendages connect to but the Dracthyr wings don't depend on their chest bulk in the same way a bat or Smaug does.
    Still, you do need some explanation for deviating from the obvious. If we could suddenly swim in the air while watching mice eat several mammotha we would also consider it gamebreaking without proper explanation.

    A little line about magical dragon wings would do, though the aesthetical void would remain. Opting for larger back muscles would alleviate that.

    Personally i am more surprised by their buff legs - why would a flying creature have overdeveloped legs? They're not even prehensile like a bird of prey's; they should sooner be near-vestigial than buff.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  3. #303
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    The head / body ratio look fine in gameplay videos. I too was afraid that the head would look small but with a proper range of movement, back angle and adornments.

    Mate their wings are connected to their backs. I don't know which muscles some fantasy apendages connect to but the Dracthyr wings don't depend on their chest bulk in the same way a bat or Smaug does.
    OMG, they can fly!

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    The entire "buff" convo is regarding the possibile future implementation of a tank/melee/black dragon spec
    That philosophy makes no sense (not saying you don’t just their reasoning)
    By that standard any female character or any Gnome or those fox people should be a tank either because they are small and slender models. Model doesn’t make them a better tank. You could literally be a green block as long as you have the stats applied you are a tank.

    They just want a buff model so they can feel like they identify as a male dragon since they are basically androgynous in dragon form

  5. #305
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    you do need some explanation for deviating from the obvious.
    Nah dude, that goes straight through the window the moment a reptile or mammal has six limbs. There's no bone, nerve nor muscle structure that actually supports nor permits that.

    I think the legs are buff to create a proper volumetric balance with the wings. It also helps with the landings!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    OMG, they can fly!
    They can do the whole dragonriding thing afaik

  6. #306
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    OMG, they can fly!
    I do like that they can actually fly and not have some DH+ movement like previously hinted.

    I only wish that the cooldown was significantly lowered or outright removed.

    It makes no sense to me, Druids don’t need a cooldown for their flight form and Worgen don’t need a cooldown for running wild.

  7. #307
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I do like that they can actually fly and not have some DH+ movement like previously hinted.

    I only wish that the cooldown was significantly lowered or outright removed.

    It makes no sense to me, Druids don’t need a cooldown for their flight form and Worgen don’t need a cooldown for running wild.
    I think you get the CD because you can do it in combat. Druids can’t.

  8. #308
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think you get the CD because you can do it in combat. Druids can’t.
    Nah, watching some gameplay and it’s not usable in combat.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Nah dude, that goes straight through the window the moment a reptile or mammal has six limbs. There's no bone, nerve nor muscle structure that actually supports nor permits that.

    I think the legs are buff to create a proper volumetric balance with the wings. It also helps with the landings!

    - - - Updated - - -

    They can do the whole dragonriding thing afaik
    Well that's debatable - just because we have no experience with such creatures doesn't mean it couldn't work - it would just require an extremely unlikely evolutionary parallel path.

    Honestly we couuld likely engineer such a path sooner or later, then we could learn about functional dragon anatomy.

    But even all this does not excuse from having to at least somehow deal with natural biomechanucs; i'm not saying you need a full on functional alternative set of biophysics, but you do need to make it convincing somehow.

    Undead (in example) are easy since their over the top unnatural nature creates a clear implication of magic, but dragons are much closer to the natural world, and thus need to obey much more of it.
    From its plentiful depictions as terrifying but rare "actual" creatures to the many animals named for their resemblance to the myths, which themselves were almost always inspired by real creatures of the past or present and their imprints on the world, the dragon is no random creature of fantasy, and this link alone is enough to condemn any attempt to dismiss argumentation along the lines of "But opinions!" as being made in bad faith and thus lacking any real weight.

    Also i am not sure regarding the need for legs for smooth landings; proper motor control on the wings would bypass any need for that. And since wings without proper motor control are pretty pointless in most nondomesticated species (i think) this naturally means that Neltharion had another hidden agenda for the drac'tyr: They are his secret stash of tasty chicken legs, living only to keep the meat fresh.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  10. #310
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Nah, watching some gameplay and it’s not usable in combat.
    The ability is Soar, and it’s a racial. Nothing in the tooltip says that it can’t be used in combat. Druid’s flight form however does say that.

  11. #311
    After seeing the character creation, I must say it's incredibly impressive.
    The Dragon form customization is nothing short of fantastic!
    The only thing they need to do is increase the bulk option, current iteration goes from 1-4, keep going up to 10. And it will be amazing.

    Visage form however, is simply put, the stuff of nightmares.
    The male one in particular, after exhausting all the options, there is seemingly no way to make a character that doesn't look like a Dragqueen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tennisace View Post
    You will eventually realize nobody takes you seriously.
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    i am no weeb. i am just a connoisseur of fine waifus.
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    And lootboxes are awesome

  12. #312
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The ability is Soar, and it’s a racial. Nothing in the tooltip says that it can’t be used in combat. Druid’s flight form however does say that.
    I am aware of that.
    When you get into combat the ability is greyed out and does not let you use it in combat.

    Also
    https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=381322/soar
    Flags: Cannot be used in combat
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-07-15 at 01:40 AM.

  13. #313
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I am aware of that.
    When you get into combat the ability is greyed out and does not let you use it in combat.

    Also
    https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=381322/soar
    Flags: Cannot be used in combat
    Yep, I just saw that. Maybe they’ll reduce the CD then before release.

  14. #314
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian Rayne View Post
    That's factually wrong. I asked for it.

    https://blizzardwatch.com/2022/03/11...ent-5785857658

    I didn't think it was going to happen but I wanted it. This is another example of you conflating yourself with the whole community.
    Yeah fam, 4 months old comment, and edited, im gonna just throw out a bit of doubt

    And again, i never said "whole community", you guys just assume that as a means to undermine the argument, because you know it was the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    For some reason you seem to think that designing games is a democratic process of doing what people want (but without the actual voting part, as supposedly "it is obvious what people want"). Where did you get that idea from...?

    What silly of me to think they devs would design the game for the players, who want to play their game, you are totally right and didn't moved goalposts at all, at least, unlike some other user that i dare not mention, you acknowledge there was a request for a draconic race and a draconic class, its enough for me not drag this out
    Other than that, doing the Drakthyr the way they are doing it is actually MORE work, not less. By tying the class with the race, they have an opportunity to do something they don't usually do
    >they don't have to work on dragon model to use armor or weapons
    >they don't have to work on dragon model using other classes animation
    >they don' have to work on other races using the new class animation
    >they don't have to work on other visage forms
    >they don't have to work on their lore can regurgitate anything they want

    But suuuuure, a lot of more work, because they can be rainbow colors and dual hair color.

    Sorry, you can't have gnomes flying over the battlefield and breathing fire, that's kinda immersion breaking
    for whon? you? after talking about how this and that is a YOU problem? hehehe hypocrisy runs amok in this forum


    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    1 - the community didn't come up with the idea of Dragonborn, D&D is old as fuck and crocodile people are historically ancient;
    1- i never said wow community came with the idea of dragonborn, i said wow community had the idea of a similar draconic race to be introduced as plaayble, taking drakonid or dragonmen as base.
    2 - No one asked for buffy new races, everyone wants more slender races. WoW is incessantly mocked because every male character is comically ripped, which is why everyone is a fucking elf.
    Its amusing how you say no one asked for buffy races - despite countless of people saying they did not like the way dracthyr are - by immediately saying people wanted "slender" races

    I can find a lot of topics saying they want dracthyr buffy, i can find a lot of topics asking for a drakonid as playable race, there is no topics about specifically asking for slender races, because they just add those left and right, so even if you say people asked for more of what already get, is completely bananas.

    LAst new races were vulpera, void elves, nightbornes, all "slender" races

    We all wanted them to start listening to their playerbase. They finally, for once, fucking did, and you wanna ruin it because of your desire for a bara lizard.
    LMAAAO, are you even for real, "they finnaly fucking did", its not like they literally add two new slender elves and vulpera

    And you talk like they want to "ruin it" how petty can YOU be to say a race cannot have both slender and buffy options? its the definition of schadenfreude syndrome and what is wrong with some of the wow fanbase, you are not happy with your slender options, you want to deny others a perfectly fine, reasonable and logical buffy option.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yep, I wanted it too;

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...s-Concept-2022

    He's just spouting nonsense.
    You did that because as an atentive to validate the idea of tinker as gnome and goblin only, we all know that, mister spouting nonsense

    And loook at that, your own thread refutes you:

    Dragonsworn is a hybrid, 3 spec Hero class that revolves around magic and the ability to briefly transform into a dragon. This class is capable of performing DPS, Tanking, and Healing, and is playable by every race except for Worgen and Forsaken

  15. #315
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Uh
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You did that because as an atentive to validate the idea of tinker as gnome and goblin only, we all know that, mister spouting nonsense

    And loook at that, your own thread refutes you:

    I was responding to your notion that no one wanted a race/class combo dragon class. If you look closer at the OP (the very next paragraph after the one you quoted) that’s exactly what I was advocating for;

    In the Dragonsworn class, the player's race is actually Dragon.
    Now obviously I got some details wrong, since I’m not some seer who can see the future, but we DID get a dragon class that is also a dragon race, and they’re tied together.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yeah fam, 4 months old comment, and edited, im gonna just throw out a bit of doubt
    There’s literally a comment he made right below it where he says the exact same thing unedited and people responding to him months ago saying he called it. Remove all your doubt because you’re wrong lol.

  17. #317
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    "Me and some random other people with different complaints" isn't a community, plurality, or movement.
    yeah, now its just me and some other random people.
    Like I have complaints about the Dracthyr model, but I very obviously don't agree with your thrust, and neither do other people complaining about other things. That is the context you are missing.
    "what is my thrust"? lol

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...d-Fix-Drakthyr

    Just look at this simple thread, in this very forum, the amount of people who think the changes listed in the thread should be done is the double of people saying the dracthyr should not be changed.

    So saying is just "me" and a couple of "randos" is being disonhest.
    What "perfect fine idea from the community" did they take and make garbage?
    >allied races

    it end up so bad they just abandoned it and decided to go with subraces as customizations in shadowlands.

    Was there some unilateral idea that *everyone* agreed on that Blizzard just didn't do? I don't recall one.
    There was, it was a dragon class as hero class that any race could be, akin to deathknights and monks, and dragon race akin to drakonid/dragonmen

    That was the unanimity

    Um, no class can be another class in WoW? Demon Hunters can only be one of two current races - Blood Elves and Night Elves, which is what I assume you're alluding to?
    Can a demon hunter be a warrior? a hunter? or a death knight? no, because they are a class of the blood elf and night elf race.

    Can dracthyr be warrior? a hunter? they can't, not because some mambo jambo "lore", they can't because they are a class, just like demon race, sold as race.


    In the future, seeing how they screwed up, they certainly will t ry to cover for this BS by "allowing" this awesome and well designed race to be another class, but that will require much more work to make then use armor and all the clipping.
    The Demon Hunter restriction is entirely a lore-related one, as well;
    That they decided to be restricted that way, as there was other races in service of ilidan and the ilidari, it was their decision to make the lore restrict,a t least having some base.

    The dracthyr evoker had no base, it was on purpose made restricted this way for less work, this way they don't need to work the model to be any class - because they are demon hunter 2.0 - this way they don't need to work on other races as visages

    Its pretty simple, its not a "conspiracy" theory, its seeing things in a company perspective.

    There also isn't a current Dragonsworn class "that was already a caster," because there is no such class in WoW. There are Dragonsworn, sure; and some of them are caster-type NPCs, but they don't have a class beyond a handful of abilities. They'd also be a big reach to turn into a race considering they're quadrupedal - they'd have more limitations than even the Dracthyr do currently in Dragonflight.
    Dragonsworn is a caster and was a prestige class caster in the rpg, it was their gig, they will not make then if we already have a dragon caster

    they can make a melee dragon fighter, a dragon knight, or whatever, but it will not be a dragonsworn.


    Blizzard has said a lot of things and then changed their minds and did them anyway
    And sometimes, they did not change their minds.


    Let me guess, some mass community you represent *all* said this, to the exclusion of anything and everything else?
    I mean, what mass community did YOU represent to say they did that?

    YOU can say that people said nightborne would not happen, because we already have a elf race, but i can't say people asked for then as subrace?

    You know, despite you can finding countless of threads asking highmountain tauren, lighforged draenei and nightborne as subrace for the main races?

    I'm sure a bunch of people wanted a Dragonsworn/Drakonid type of race and aren't happy with the Dracthyr,
    It was that hard to say it? you ly didn't need to drag on an argument to make this less vallid


    If you're wanting more customization options for the Dracthyr, then that's all to the good - say that, and don't dilute your message by harping about other Dragonsworn class/race ideas that aren't currently on the table for the next expansion
    I did say that

    The fact that i throw arguments of why i want more are not less relevant because some people may dislike or not agree on then, especially when some people are actively advocating for no more options, which that grinds my gear more than the garbage model itself.


    Complaining about how the Dracthyr sucks and another race/class would've been better? Not constructive, and kind of irrelevant to the thread. Talking about more and different customization options? Precisely what the thread is for, essentially.
    Talking about how dracthyr right now sucks and they should make then look better, similar to what people asked for in a dragon race is perfectly vallid

    Now *that* is a semantic dodge if ever there was one. Sure, I unintentionally misrepresented what you said
    No, you straigh tup invented something i didn't even think about it

    is like out of blue, you said "hey, few pages ago you just said you hate sushi!"

    Yeah, in fact i don't like it, but i naver said in this thread, or in this forum, at all.


    Because it's neither absurd nor a fallacy - and it's certainly not clear to you, so very obviously "not clear to anyone." The Evoker class and the Demon Hunter class are not 100% the same, do not share even the same restrictions, and fundamentally fill different functions, roles, and player fantasies. Try to bend yourself into as many logical contortions as you like, you're not going to be able to square that circle.
    "murdering is 100% different from killing because they have different letters"

    i mean, if you cherrypick the few differences and completely ignore their likeness, i guess you will be always right, no flaws in this logic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse12 View Post
    There’s literally a comment he made right below it where he says the exact same thing unedited and people responding to him months ago saying he called it. Remove all your doubt because you’re wrong lol.
    Yeah, he called dragon isles, like 90% of the rest of the people who play the game 4Head

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh

    I was responding to your notion that no one wanted a race/class combo dragon class. If you look closer at the OP (the very next paragraph after the one you quoted) that’s exactly what I was advocating for;
    I said no one asked for a dragon class and a dragon race to be one and the same, and in fact, no one did that.


    Now obviously I got some details wrong, since I’m not some seer who can see the future, but we DID get a dragon class that is also a dragon race, and they’re tied together.
    you straight up said the class would be playable by all races, its in your own thread LOL

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    That they decided to be restricted that way, as there was other races in service of ilidan and the ilidari, it was their decision to make the lore restrict,a t least having some base.

    The dracthyr evoker had no base, it was on purpose made restricted this way for less work, this way they don't need to work the model to be any class - because they are demon hunter 2.0 - this way they don't need to work on other races as visages

    Its pretty simple, its not a "conspiracy" theory, its seeing things in a company perspective.
    *Blizzard restricting races to a class because the story says the creator made them that way*

    Valid base of lore

    *Blizzard restricting races to a class because the story says the creator made them that way*

    Actual conspiracy to make players mad and be lazy


    ???????????????????????????????????

    Yeah, he called dragon isles, like 90% of the rest of the people who play the game 4Head
    If you would read he literally said a dragon based race and class combo 4 months ago unedited like 3 comments below what he linked. Go ahead and ignore that tho

    https://blizzardwatch.com/2022/03/11...ent-5786071498
    Last edited by Synapse12; 2022-07-15 at 03:12 AM.

  19. #319
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I said no one asked for a dragon class and a dragon race to be one and the same, and in fact, no one did that.
    Again read the thread. I made it quite clear that both race/class being a dragon was the purpose of the dragonborne concept.


    you straight up said the class would be playable by all races, its in your own thread LOL
    YeaH, via the visage form. In other words, every race would be playable because dragons could take on the appearance of any race.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yeah fam, 4 months old comment, and edited, im gonna just throw out a bit of doubt
    Yeah - it had to be four months old if it was before the Dragonflight announcement. You're undermining your own point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And again, i never said "whole community", you guys just assume that as a means to undermine the argument, because you know it was the truth.
    You said "no one asked for it". I provided proof that some people did indeed ask for it. That's a straight up proof that you're wrong. What undermines your argument are the facts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse12 View Post
    There’s literally a comment he made right below it where he says the exact same thing unedited and people responding to him months ago saying he called it. Remove all your doubt because you’re wrong lol.
    We were in a conspiracy four months ago to undermine something he said yesterday. I mean since he's into conspiracy theories and all.
    Meanwhile, back on Azeroth, the overwhelming majority of the orcs languished in internment camps. One Orc had a dream. A dream to reunite the disparate souls trapped under the lock and key of the Alliance. So he raided the internment camps, freeing those orcs that he could, and reached out to a downtrodden tribe of trolls to aid him in rebuilding a Horde where orcs could live free of the humans who defeated them so long ago. That orc's name was... Rend.

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