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  1. #381
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    The model you seem so fond of reminds me a lot of turtles (obviously without the shell). For me, personally, beyond just the wings, the lack of horns really kills it for the "WoW Dragon" appearance. All WoW dragons have horns. Dracthyr have horns. The model that you're proposing does not.



    As you can see in, the top of their head, horns, like dragons.

    The fin ears do seem more at home on a naga or other aquatic creature
    Fin ears and tendrils look 100% like wow classic dragons, i linked two easy comparisons with onyxia and nefarian.

    I understand your displeasure, and I think the model you posted looks cool, but I don't think it screams "dragon" more than the dracthyr do. We may just prioritize different elements of WoW dragons.
    they 100% do, dracthyr are skinny lizards with tiny heads, long snout and smiled faces, they lack the bulky, the strong necks, strong jaws hell, they lack the fins and tendrils of classic dragons.

    The only dragon the dracthyr look like, is the nightmare dragon with their mouth looking like a beak, i give you that, but not the classic ones

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    This is seemingly starting to veer into the territory of people not being able to have opinions that differ from yours, by the sound; and that's not really a discussion I care to continue overly. But to put it succinctly in a way I hope you can understand and accept: yes, I can honestly say the new Drakonid model you're referring doesn't look as draconic as the current Dracthyr model in my view, and yes, I prefer the current Dracthyr model to the newer Drakonid model. Beyond that, I don't honestly care if you can't accept it or don't believe me at my word, I'm going to blithely go on thinking and feeling the way I care to regardless of your opinion on the matter. End of story.
    Look how you made a whole paragraph to not answer about they looking like onyxia and nefarian, unlike the dracthyr.

    "Monstrous and creepy" certainly qualifies as a kind of ferocity in my view
    .

    But its not, ferocity is the ability to be savage, again, the ring girl, is not ferocious, the girl from exorcist? creepy, not ferocious

    And see how weird is, that you are trying to make how "insects"(because spiders are no insects), are ferocious, to validate the soft features of the dracthyr, that are opposite of the true dragons

    There are more predators in the wild than just jungle cats and hulking mammals, so yes. Stealth and ambush predators don't chase prey, and many of them rely on poisons and traps to ensnare their victims.
    And all of the phunter predators have the traits i mentioned, crocodiles, extinct theropodes, crocodiles, sharks

    we are talking about DRAGONS, active hunters, dragons do not rely on poison and traps to ensnare their victims, they are not stealth and ambush, this is not even true for dracthyr, let alone true dragons;
    If visible teeth were the only things that defined what a dragon was or wasn't, sure.
    It isn't, thats i i listed, several other features.

    The Dracthyr model doesn't have anywhere close to the neck length of a giraffe,
    They don't, thats why i ddin't talk about length, but about head format and thickness of the neck

    Both the Drakonid and Dracthyr models strike me as being "aligned with WoW's design,"
    By being alligned with wow design you mean by then looking nothing like the wow dragons, i guess you are right?

    They being spellcasters doesn't mean they should be skinny lizards, as wow dragons themselves - magic and spellcaster-ish creatures - are thick and bulky.

    This argument also falls appart too with their visage forms looking abnormally ripped, then again, this is another problem of the visage design

    You not liking the former doesn't mean it should be excised from the game.
    Once again, i never said that, i said they should have both options

    Sadly, the damage is already done to remove one, and blizzard is not well know for assuming their mistakes.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    *snip*
    Bruh... I know it's hard to accept, but what you want is not exactly what everyone wants and you don't even know if most want.

    So I mean, I would not mind if they'd get a bit more meat on their bones, within reason, but what I see now - I like and you gotta learn to live with that.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  3. #383
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Look how you made a whole paragraph to not answer about they looking like onyxia and nefarian, unlike the dracthyr.
    If you read my whole paragraph, then you'd have the answer to your question: I don't think they look anything like Onyxia or Nefarian, where the Dracthyr at least do to some degree. In addition, you're basically also agreeing that no one has a right to an opinion different than yours, making any other discussion with you rather pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    But its not, ferocity is the ability to be savage, again, the ring girl, is not ferocious, the girl from exorcist? creepy, not ferocious

    And see how weird is, that you are trying to make how "insects"(because spiders are no insects), are ferocious, to validate the soft features of the dracthyr, that are opposite of the true dragons
    This has to be the worst semantic dodge I've seen in some time. Sure, spiders are arachnids and not insects - but I think you could take my meaning easily enough without having to channel your inner entomologist. The point still stands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And all of the phunter predators have the traits i mentioned, crocodiles, extinct theropodes, crocodiles, sharks

    we are talking about DRAGONS, active hunters, dragons do not rely on poison and traps to ensnare their victims, they are not stealth and ambush, this is not even true for dracthyr, let alone true dragons;
    This seems like the point where I should make you reference your degree in Draconolgy, so I can certify you're scientific knowledge of fantasy creatures is on the up and up, right? Did you attend a certified university and do the required years of fieldwork to study the biology, hunting habits, and courtship rituals of the dragon? Are there pronounced differences in the manner in how the Northrend proto-drake and the Eastern Kingdoms whelp track and devour prey? Do Azerothian dragons even need to consume prey or do they subsist entirely on Ley energy and ambient mana?

    The above is obvious sarcasm because I think the conversation has drifted into the absurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    By being alligned with wow design you mean by then looking nothing like the wow dragons, i guess you are right?

    They being spellcasters doesn't mean they should be skinny lizards, as wow dragons themselves - magic and spellcaster-ish creatures - are thick and bulky.

    This argument also falls appart too with their visage forms looking abnormally ripped, then again, this is another problem of the visage design
    If you don't think *either* design really belongs in WoW, then this entire argument is rendered pointless and it makes me question why we're bothering to have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Once again, i never said that, i said they should have both options

    Sadly, the damage is already done to remove one, and blizzard is not well know for assuming their mistakes.
    I've already said that I think both options would be fine, merely that I favored one over the other, an opinion I'm apparently not entitled to have without your explicit permission for some reason.

    Since this entire conversation has been rendered pointless in any case, I'm going to end it by saying I think the Dracthtyr model is still superior as it stands, and you can go on thinking what you think. I hope you manage to get some solace with future updates, as well; though given the givens I doubt that will work out for you.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  4. #384
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Bruh... I know it's hard to accept, but what you want is not exactly what everyone wants and you don't even know if most want.
    I mean, i never speak for "everyone", i don't know why the fetish in forum to always go for a strawman fallacy here, but i didn't.

    Seeing different pools of players, which, of course are not the entirity of the community show great displeasure in the model and people wanting changes, so keep that up

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    If you read my whole paragraph, then you'd have the answer to your question: I don't think they look anything like Onyxia or Nefarian, where the Dracthyr at least do to some degree. In addition, you're basically also agreeing that no one has a right to an opinion different than yours, making any other discussion with you rather pointless.
    So, basicaly if i say a dog look more like a tiger than a cat, its not something blatantly absurd, its just a different opinion, got it

    This has to be the worst semantic dodge I've seen in some time. Sure, spiders are arachnids and not insects - but I think you could take my meaning easily enough without having to channel your inner entomologist. The point still stands.
    Nope, the point does not stands, they are not fierce, savage or hunter predators like dragon are meant to be, the definition fo fierce is going off

    This seems like the point where I should make you reference your degree in Draconolgy, so I can certify you're scientific knowledge of fantasy creatures is on the up and up, right? Did you attend a certified university and do the required years of fieldwork to study the biology, hunting habits, and courtship rituals of the dragon? Are there pronounced differences in the manner in how the Northrend proto-drake and the Eastern Kingdoms whelp track and devour prey? Do Azerothian dragons even need to consume prey or do they subsist entirely on Ley energy and ambient mana?
    Now you are trying to ridicule me, by my knowledge of fantasy, in a fantasy game, now this is rly something, and this is after you accused me of semantic dodge

    You don't need to attend to a university to know about dragons, you just need to read a book about then, which seems like is hard to do cause to compare then with spiders or insects is rly something

    If you don't think *either* design really belongs in WoW, then this entire argument is rendered pointless and it makes me question why we're bothering to have it.
    Let me rephrase it

    The design of the drakonid belongs to WoW, they are bulky, rough and similar to other races and creatures in the warcraft universe, the drakonid was in the game since classic, they looks closer to actual dragons and wow classic dragons AKA the ones from the main dragonflights

    The design of dracthyr does not belong to wow, they do not like anything like what we had before aka races or creatures, they do not look like wow classic dragons or the ones from the dragonflights, the closest the dracthyr can look, and i talk because im fair, is the nightmare dragon from Legion, as even then is a far shot cause their jaw is off and no showing teeth, hell, they don't even look like Maloriak that is a skinny dragonmen

    I've already said that I think both options would be fine, merely that I favored one over the other, an opinion I'm apparently not entitled to have without your explicit permission for some reason.
    another strawman as i never denied anyone from having preference

  5. #385


    Give me the TRUE dragonborns, not hybrid abominations.

  6. #386
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    So, basicaly if i say a dog look more like a tiger than a cat, its not something blatantly absurd, its just a different opinion, got it
    A strawman opinion I never made, but sure, if you say you think that I'm not going to gainsay you on it, either. Opinions are opinions, and not everyone sees the same things as you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Nope, the point does not stands, they are not fierce, savage or hunter predators like dragon are meant to be, the definition fo fierce is going off
    Agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Now you are trying to ridicule me, by my knowledge of fantasy, in a fantasy game, now this is rly something, and this is after you accused me of semantic dodge
    I did say I was being sarcastic in the hopes you wouldn't take it personally, but that part of the conversation was just getting too silly for my blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You don't need to attend to a university to know about dragons, you just need to read a book about then, which seems like is hard to do cause to compare then with spiders or insects is rly something
    I was talking about the different MO's of predator creatures, not comparing spiders or insects directly to dragons - I think you know that and are purposely being obtuse here. But since you brought it up as a direct comparison, are you 100% sure Warcraft dragons aren't ambush predators? They certainly have the intellect for extensive tool use even prior to their enhancement by the Titans, why waste all that energy on exhausting physical chases when they could instead trap their prey via spell-like abilities or raw ingenuity? That's what primitive humans did, after all, and even proto-drakes have human-level cognitive abilities. Maybe Warcraft dragons even have complex skills like farming and herding under their belts, befitting their advanced cognition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Let me rephrase it

    The design of the drakonid belongs to WoW, they are bulky, rough and similar to other races and creatures in the warcraft universe, the drakonid was in the game since classic, they looks closer to actual dragons and wow classic dragons AKA the ones from the main dragonflights

    The design of dracthyr does not belong to wow, they do not like anything like what we had before aka races or creatures, they do not look like wow classic dragons or the ones from the dragonflights, the closest the dracthyr can look, and i talk because im fair, is the nightmare dragon from Legion, as even then is a far shot cause their jaw is off and no showing teeth, hell, they don't even look like Maloriak that is a skinny dragonmen
    Again, agree to disagree (assuming I'm allowed to have an opinion on the matter, of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    another strawman as i never denied anyone from having preference
    Considering most of your replies are a litany of reasons why I'm not permitted to have the opinion I do, it's neither a strawman nor even incorrect. You would come across a lot better if you started your rebuttals with qualifiers like "I think," "I feel," or "in my opinion" as opposed to attempting to make your opinion come across as objective fact.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  7. #387
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    A strawman opinion I never made, but sure, if you say you think that I'm not going to gainsay you on it, either. Opinions are opinions, and not everyone sees the same things as you.
    I rly don't think this is a strawman as, its exactly what is presented, a cat look more like a tiger than a dog, just like a drakonid looks more like a wow classic dragon than a dracthyr, you can see it by putting pictures on then side by side, case on point, onyxia and nefarian had the same fins and tendrils and the jaw/teeth of the drakonid, something dracthyr don't have, how in the nine hells the dracthyr can look more like then without any of their traits, being something compltely new design-wise


    I did say I was being sarcastic in the hopes you wouldn't take it personally, but that part of the conversation was just getting too silly for my blood.
    In other people seats that would mean trolling.


    I was talking about the different MO's of predator creatures, not comparing spiders or insects directly to dragons - I think you know that and are purposely being obtuse here. But since you brought it up as a direct comparison, are you 100% sure Warcraft dragons aren't ambush predators? They certainly have the intellect for extensive tool use even prior to their enhancement by the Titans, why waste all that energy on exhausting physical chases when they could instead trap their prey via spell-like abilities or raw ingenuity? That's what primitive humans did, after all, and even proto-drakes have human-level cognitive abilities. Maybe Warcraft dragons even have complex skills like farming and herding under their belts, befitting their advanced cognition.
    And talking about spiders and insects its the definition of a red-hearing, as, they do not share the fierce traits that dragons and other reptiles or even active hunters do, even if you were able to pull out that insects are "fierce" is another matter that does not work here. In short, you want to say there is different types of fierce, sure, but does not mean the different types work for a giant reptile monster.

    How do i know Warcraft dragons are not ambush predators? by playing the game and seeing how they attack you in different quests? even dragons that like manipulation and deceive go down to the fight with their physical strenght and breath weapons.

    Stop a bit to think what you are doing, to salvage this argument, You want to compare primitive humans to the dragons elevated by the titans to a higher standart

    Primitive humans did their things because they had to, to surive, dragons would the mightiest predators on earth by their physic alone, and here, they can do magic, why they would ambush their prey with traps and other silly methods when they can just go down to bussines, like a farm and get all the food they want? LOL.

    Considering most of your replies are a litany of reasons why I'm not permitted to have the opinion I do,
    You can have all the opinions of you want, i know you want to hammer down this to shift blame on me, but again, i never said you cannot prefer one than another.

    The only thing i mention is when people tried to talk nonsense, you can say you prefer dracthyr because you like how they are designed, you like their visage forms, you think they are prettier, better made, because they have many options, yada yada, thats 150% valid.

    The crux of the problem is saying "i like then because they truly look like the classic warcraft dragons!" or "they sure look fiercer than other draconic things in the game", and man, we both know that ain't the truth.

  8. #388
    Mechagnome Mr. Smith's Avatar
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    I don't appreciate the idea that it makes """sense""" for the Dracthyr to be scrawny nerds because they're spellcasters. Normalize Muscle Wizards.

  9. #389
    The Drakonid are ugly. All the art examples people keep posting as their proof of why dracthyr need to be ultra roided out beefcakes are also ugly.

    There's a lot of racs in this game that can fulfill your hypermasculine power fantasies, maybe go play one of them instead of crying because one race is on the leaner side?
    Last edited by Shara Ishvalda; 2022-07-17 at 06:28 PM.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    [snip]

    As you can see in, the top of their head, horns, like dragons.
    Yes, those look more like dragons. Sorry, I was referring to the other one you had posted, which to me, look more like turtles:




    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Fin ears and tendrils look 100% like wow classic dragons, i linked two easy comparisons with onyxia and nefarian.
    They do exist on the black flight (as well as tendrils on the blue and both for dragon serpents - if you consider those dragons), but we also see them on a bunch of non-dragons (Naga have both, fin ears are shown on gilgoblins, tendrils on eredar and jinyu, etc.). Meanwhile, if you look at some of the standard early dragons (and most of their derivatives), you see neither the fins nor the tendrils. Some examples:

    Eranikus (Vanilla)

    Netherwing Drake (TBC)

    Sartharion (WotL)

    Aeonaxx (Cataclysm)


    So while I don't think they're out of place, they just, to me, don't really mark something as a dragon.

    they 100% do, dracthyr are skinny lizards with tiny heads, long snout and smiled faces, they lack the bulky, the strong necks, strong jaws hell, they lack the fins and tendrils of classic dragons.

    The only dragon the dracthyr look like, is the nightmare dragon with their mouth looking like a beak, i give you that, but not the classic ones
    They do have fin options if you want those (see far right):

    Likewise, they have ranges of snout lengths with different lower jaw thicknesses (maybe the third is more what you're looking for?):


    I didn't see any tendril options, but as I pointed out above, those aren't on all dragons. In terms of necks, the base of the neck are slightly bulkier on Body Type 4, but yeah, beyond that, they're pretty much confined to the same neck regardless of other options. Obviously for bulk, we've seen what they're offering, so we're not going to get orc or draenei style builds with them, though as @Aucald has mentioned, I'm fine giving them a more elfen build given their proclivity for magic. That's entirely subjective, but given we've had skinny drakonids like Maloriak in the past, it doesn't seem uncharacteristic of the franchise.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by olddog View Post


    Give me the TRUE dragonborns, not hybrid abominations.

    daily reminder that dracthyr were already buffed by some people here.



    ok





    there are people there that think these are the same "buff"
    Last edited by Dioporco; 2022-07-17 at 10:18 PM.

  12. #392
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I rly don't think this is a strawman as, its exactly what is presented, a cat look more like a tiger than a dog, just like a drakonid looks more like a wow classic dragon than a dracthyr, you can see it by putting pictures on then side by side, case on point, onyxia and nefarian had the same fins and tendrils and the jaw/teeth of the drakonid, something dracthyr don't have, how in the nine hells the dracthyr can look more like then without any of their traits, being something compltely new design-wise
    What if I told you that I didn't even think the classic Drakonid model looked much like a dragon? Obviously inspired by them, sure; but pretty far from what I think of a true dragon in general fantasy (the lack of wings and or a sinuous dragon-like body being the most obvious giveaway)? And what if I also told you I thought the new Drakonid model looked even less like a dragon than the classic Drakonid? I crouch the above as questions, but they're also exactly what I think. You're too caught up in farcical strawman examples to understand that I don't agree with the premise of what you're saying, and probably never will. I don't expect you to change your mind, either, but then I'm also not the person who can't seem to accept that alternative opinions are valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    In other people seats that would mean trolling.
    Please, if some light sarcasm was tantamount to trolling these forums would be an empty ghost-town. That's a half-hearted deflection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And talking about spiders and insects its the definition of a red-hearing, as, they do not share the fierce traits that dragons and other reptiles or even active hunters do, even if you were able to pull out that insects are "fierce" is another matter that does not work here. In short, you want to say there is different types of fierce, sure, but does not mean the different types work for a giant reptile monster.

    How do i know Warcraft dragons are not ambush predators? by playing the game and seeing how they attack you in different quests? even dragons that like manipulation and deceive go down to the fight with their physical strenght and breath weapons.

    Stop a bit to think what you are doing, to salvage this argument, You want to compare primitive humans to the dragons elevated by the titans to a higher standart

    Primitive humans did their things because they had to, to surive, dragons would the mightiest predators on earth by their physic alone, and here, they can do magic, why they would ambush their prey with traps and other silly methods when they can just go down to bussines, like a farm and get all the food they want? LOL.
    "Fierce" is entirely relative - I'm sure to a fly that's been trapped in a spider's web as the much larger and scarier predator bears down on them would definitely say the spider is fierce, right before it paralyzed them and left them hanging to be evening's repast. You've trapped yourself in a single frame of reference where multiple other frames exist.

    That is exactly what I'm asking, though; why would a dragon (an intelligent predator with near-human intellect) bother with chasing down prey and exhausting itself when other means are easily available to it through simple tool use? You opened the door on this discussion by trying to close out my example out of hand, by the by, so I'm just making some key suppositions on the theme. You're thinking of dragons are fierce and predatory in only a single mode of thought, as if only the big cat metaphor for ferocity existed - I'm supplying additional modes you seem to think don't count, but you've provided no cohesive reason why they shouldn't or don't. If a dragon can just fireball its prey from a distance and catch up with its already roasted carcass at its relative leisure, why then would it evolve bulky and unnecessary musculature that doesn't serve it for survival? That'd be over-engineering on an epic scale, and like the Nethanderthal before it would consign dragons to oblivion because they'd be outcompeted by better-adapted species.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You can have all the opinions of you want, i know you want to hammer down this to shift blame on me, but again, i never said you cannot prefer one than another.

    The only thing i mention is when people tried to talk nonsense, you can say you prefer dracthyr because you like how they are designed, you like their visage forms, you think they are prettier, better made, because they have many options, yada yada, thats 150% valid.

    The crux of the problem is saying "i like then because they truly look like the classic warcraft dragons!" or "they sure look fiercer than other draconic things in the game", and man, we both know that ain't the truth.
    "I didn't say it, I just strongly and consistently implied it, and will continue to do so until you recant." Does that sum up your general approach?

    On one hand, you allow me to have an opinion, but only if I qualify it by agreeing with you that Dracthyr aren't modeled along classic WoW dragons or appear more or less draconic than other examples you prefer? I hate to tell you, but that's just disallowing me to have an opinion with a few extra steps, a distinction without a difference. But to close this exercise in futility, I'll just say that in a game where these two models can co-exist easily:

    and

    There's more than enough room for the current Dracthyr to exist and be qualified as "belonging to Warcraft." The rest is, in my opinion, nonsensical gatekeeping.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  13. #393
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    They do exist on the black flight (as well as tendrils on the blue and both for dragon serpents - if you consider those dragons), but we also see them on a bunch of non-dragons (Naga have both, fin ears are shown on gilgoblins, tendrils on eredar and jinyu, etc.). Meanwhile, if you look at some of the standard early dragons (and most of their derivatives), you see neither the fins nor the tendrils. Some examples:
    Eranikus sartharion, DO have fins and tendrils, do you realize that when you linked then right? proving my point? the netherdrake look like a shark and the stonedrake is another case scenario.

    They do have fin options if you want those (see far right):
    Wich breaks the entire argument of Aucard saying if they ahve fins they look like naga.
    Likewise, they have ranges of snout lengths with different lower jaw thicknesses (maybe the third is more what you're looking for?):
    None of those fit because they aren't thick enough, their snout is too thin even with different jawlines, on top of that, the head is too soft without the teeth coming out, something rly characteristic for all the dragons you linked


    Obviously for bulk, we've seen what they're offering, so we're not going to get orc or draenei style builds with them, though as @Aucald has mentioned, I'm fine giving them a more elfen build given their proclivity for magic. That's entirely subjective, but given we've had skinny drakonids like Maloriak in the past, it doesn't seem uncharacteristic of the franchise.
    The game does rly need more elven build, im sure hammering this down will bring back the game on its fit, on top of that, draeneis were MORE proclivity for magic than elves and still have decent builds.

    Maloriak is way more well build overall, him using worgen skeleton with a wide and broad shoulder and bigger jaw.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    What if I told you that I didn't even think the classic Drakonid model looked much like a dragon?
    Such a coincidence that would be right?

    Obviously inspired by them, sure; but pretty far from what I think of a true dragon in general fantasy (the lack of wings and or a sinuous dragon-like body being the most obvious giveaway)?
    OF course they would not have those things, they aren't real dragons after all, but humanoids changed by dragon magic to look like dragons.
    Please, if some light sarcasm was tantamount to trolling these forums would be an empty ghost-town. That's a half-hearted deflection.
    gonna remember this for the next time.

    "Fierce" is entirely relative - I'm sure to a fly that's been trapped in a spider's web as the much larger and scarier predator bears down on them would definitely say the spider is fierce, right before it paralyzed them and left them hanging to be evening's repast. You've trapped yourself in a single frame of reference where multiple other frames exist.
    Yes its relative, thats why we use in the right context, as dragons are not insects, this is not "trapped in a single frame of reference" but using the right ones, you can't try to make up that dracthyr are fiercer because a fly got scarried by a spider

    That is exactly what I'm asking, though; why would a dragon (an intelligent predator with near-human intellect) bother with chasing down prey and exhausting itself when other means are easily available to it through simple tool use?
    Ah, so you never heard about hunting for sports? they do it because they CAN, they LIKE to chase prey, to catch and eat.

    you say "why they are bulky if they can cast fireball" and i ask you, what dragon does just that? you did quests with dragons, what did they to you? they just stay afar casting magic or go to fight with their mighty claws and jaws?

    Last raid i played, Vexiona didn't just sit around shooting dark magic to me, she went to town and we fight

    We can go even deeper in this rabbit hole, why dragons need wings if they are spellcasters? they can just use magic to fly, why they have fangged teeth and claw? why they are so big and bulky? so on, so on.

    "I didn't say it, I just strongly and consistently implied it, and will continue to do so until you recant." Does that sum up your general approach?
    humm, nope it does not.
    On one hand, you allow me to have an opinion, but only if I qualify it by agreeing with you that Dracthyr aren't modeled along classic WoW dragons or appear more or less draconic than other examples you prefer? I hate to tell you, but that's just disallowing me to have an opinion with a few extra steps, a distinction without a difference. But to close this exercise in futility, I'll just say that in a game where these two models can co-exist easily:
    Sometimes opinions are based around misconception and untruth, like if someone say spiders are their favorite insect, am i the villain because i say to then that, in fact, they can't be because they aren't insects?

    There's more than enough room for the current Dracthyr to exist and be qualified as "belonging to Warcraft." The rest is, in my opinion, nonsensical gatekeeping.
    One of those, i bet you, is not a playable race material, neither will be an relevant thing in the plot.

    And its a nice shot of another better draconic model, the jagged teeth coming out of their mouth rly nailed what wow dragons have, just like drakonids.

  14. #394
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Such a coincidence that would be right?
    And again, the undertones of "you can't actually believe that, because it doesn't work for my argument if you do."

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    OF course they would not have those things, they aren't real dragons after all, but humanoids changed by dragon magic to look like dragons.
    Kind of like the Dracthyr, except the Dracthyr *do* have draconic wings, horns, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yes its relative, thats why we use in the right context, as dragons are not insects, this is not "trapped in a single frame of reference" but using the right ones, you can't try to make up that dracthyr are fiercer because a fly got scarried by a spider
    Again, not comparing dragons directly to arachnids, but merely underscoring that "fierceness" has more modalities than hulking, brutish, or "buff." The Dracthyr can still express ferocity without the need for hulking muscles or protruding teeth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Ah, so you never heard about hunting for sports? they do it because they CAN, they LIKE to chase prey, to catch and eat.

    you say "why they are bulky if they can cast fireball" and i ask you, what dragon does just that? you did quests with dragons, what did they to you? they just stay afar casting magic or go to fight with their mighty claws and jaws?

    Last raid i played, Vexiona didn't just sit around shooting dark magic to me, she went to town and we fight

    We can go even deeper in this rabbit hole, why dragons need wings if they are spellcasters? they can just use magic to fly, why they have fangged teeth and claw? why they are so big and bulky? so on, so on.
    Spellcasters need range, and self-powered flight is the best way to get distance between you and your target. Vexiona also uses a *lot* of magic in her encounter, not to mention flying up out of range and trying to fry the raid with her breath attacks. Dragons can certainly be masterful melee combatants, too; no discounting that - but most battles with dragons mix spell-like abilities befitting the dragon's type or Flight alongside their physical prowess. That being said, dragons aren't really depicted as being brutish, either; they're sinuous and highly agile as well. A dragon's melee is usually far from their most potent abilities - those would be their inherent magical abilities and, of course, their powerfully strong breath weapons typically employed while in flight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    humm, nope it does not.
    Something to work on, I suppose, because your words and overall tone certainly belie that stance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Sometimes opinions are based around misconception and untruth, like if someone say spiders are their favorite insect, am i the villain because i say to then that, in fact, they can't be because they aren't insects?
    Exactly what part of my opinion that I prefer the Dracthyr model to the Drakonid one is based on any misconception or untruth? The spider/insect nitpickiness is beside the point. You'd have to be a real pedant to insist someone call a spider an arachnid as opposed to just using the catch-all term "insect." Sure, it's taxonomically incorrect, but unless we're formally classifying bugs I think everyone can understand the basic gist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    One of those, i bet you, is not a playable race material, neither will be an relevant thing in the plot.

    And its a nice shot of another better draconic model, the jagged teeth coming out of their mouth rly nailed what wow dragons have, just like drakonids.
    The Drakonid model is also not a playable race, so that's just moving the goalposts further.

    Like before, I think we're pretty much done here, at a logical and subjective impasse. You're going to think what you think, I'm going to think what I think, and we'll both just have to live with that in the end.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    A tiny minority wants that monstrosity to be playable.

    The Dracthyr we got are much more preferred.
    You are absolutely full of it if you think its just a small handful of people that want this option lol

  16. #396
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Kind of like the Dracthyr, except the Dracthyr *do* have draconic wings, horns, etc
    What is the etc? because the drakonid also *do* have horns too, as well the fins and tendrils, the bulky display, the teeth coming out of their mouth too, three of those lack in the dracthyr and are present in classic dragons

    they lack wings is exactly because thats their intent, but again, its easy fixed


    Again, not comparing dragons directly to arachnids, but merely underscoring that "fierceness" has more modalities than hulking, brutish, or "buff." The Dracthyr can still express ferocity without the need for hulking muscles or protruding teeth.
    They cannot be "fierce" like that, precisely because they are not arachinids, they are dragons, they should be fierce like dragons are, a lion cannot be fierce like a animal devouring larvae, if you are not fierce like a dragon, then you are not doing your job of a draconic race well.


    Spellcasters need range, and self-powered flight is the best way to get distance between you and your target. Vexiona also uses a *lot* of magic in her encounter, not to mention flying up out of range and trying to fry the raid with her breath attacks. Dragons can certainly be masterful melee combatants, too; no discounting that - but most battles with dragons mix spell-like abilities befitting the dragon's type or Flight alongside their physical prowess. That being said, dragons aren't really depicted as being brutish, either; they're sinuous and highly agile as well. A dragon's melee is usually far from their most potent abilities - those would be their inherent magical abilities and, of course, their powerfully strong breath weapons typically employed while in flight.
    Vexiona uses a lot of melee fight a well, or you are going to just brush that off? like, come on, all dragons ARE depicted as being brutsh fighting in melee as well.

    Yeah they mix with their magic, and the dracthyr ONLY fight with magic, combined with their weak frame and model with their soft and not fierceness characteristics nd garbage visage, that explain why so many people think they are off-warcraft and need a better work, they don't scream "dragon" at all, .

    Exactly what part of my opinion that I prefer the Dracthyr model to the Drakonid one is based on any misconception or untruth? The spider/insect nitpickiness is beside the point. You'd have to be a real pedant to insist someone call a spider an arachnid as opposed to just using the catch-all term "insect." Sure, it's taxonomically incorrect, but unless we're formally classifying bugs I think everyone can understand the basic gist.
    Just like spiders aren't insects - and we can prove that - dracthyr don't look like warcraft classic dragons more than drakonid, and we can prove that as well by comparing their iamges side by side, like i just did with enfarian and onyxia and just like the other user did with the green dragon and sartharion., they are more close to drakonid than the dracthyr, is not a amtter of taste but fact, while dracthyr look at best, like the nightmare dragons from legion..

    You can love spiders and dracthyr, like i said, the crux is saying one is your favorite insect and the other "look more like a classic warcraft dragon" when we had many pictures showing otherwise.


    The Drakonid model is also not a playable race, so that's just moving the goalposts further.

    They aren't, but they are playable race material, because they look like something warcraft would have, cartoonish big bulky character that would use oversized weapons and armor, instead of someone from final fantasy mmo.

  17. #397
    So much effort going into the argument that "Drakthyr need to look more like dragons", conveniently ignoring the fact that Drakthyrs are NOT natural descendants of dragons, but a result of an experiment with draconic powers - and as such, they can look as "draconish" as the artists/designers want them to. It's rather irrelevant if they look similar to Onyxia or Nefarian, because Drakthyrs are not the offspring of neither of them, or any other dragon for that matter. They are a Dr. Moreau creation; it's enough if they resemble a dragon, not necessarily look like one.

  18. #398
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigcountry11782 View Post
    You are absolutely full of it if you think its just a small handful of people that want this option lol
    That’s exactly what it is. Huge bulky races are unpopular in WoW. The ARs especially prove that fact.

  19. #399
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    So much effort going into the argument that "Drakthyr need to look more like dragons", conveniently ignoring the fact that Drakthyrs are NOT natural descendants of dragons, but a result of an experiment with draconic powers - and as such, they can look as "draconish" as the artists/designers want them to. It's rather irrelevant if they look similar to Onyxia or Nefarian, because Drakthyrs are not the offspring of neither of them, or any other dragon for that matter. They are a Dr. Moreau creation; it's enough if they resemble a dragon, not necessarily look like one.
    The Dracthyr, like Drakonids and a number of other draconic subspecies, would probably fall under the general label of "dragonkin." Dragonkin is a pretty wide label, as well, including nether dragons (which many Azerothian dragons hold are not true dragons), cloud serpents, dragonhawks, faerie dragons, and reanimated emberwyms and frost wyrms created by Necromancy.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That’s exactly what it is. Huge bulky races are unpopular in WoW. The ARs especially prove that fact.
    Are unpopular, which is false but i mean you went full mad after no tinker for the 8787 time and now you are larping as drachtyr die hard, because xmog.


    Belf > Human > Orc > Draenei


    Here is the most played races in 2022, that because are the best races for xmog BESIDE PVE PVP racial.


    lets see the non bulky races that are popular if Teriz rambling was correct.


    Mechagnomes? Lovercraftian Visual Tumor due to robotic (euphemism) limbs.

    Gnomes? Too small.

    Vulpera? See Gnomes.

    Goblin? See Gnomes.

    ----

    Worgen? No feet and Head Piece not fitting properly + clipping.

    Nelf? Clipping ears

    Kultiran and Panda? Plate belly or belly skirt is awful because it looks like bodypaint.

    Tauren? No feed + same worgen head issue for xmog

    Dwarves? Works only with plate + nobody play alliance + nobody play dwarf

    Dracthyr? Well cant wear armor so are Tier Dogshit for xmog

    - - - Updated - - -

    Lets compare 2 of the most played race vs 2 of the least played and see how xmog works on them






    VS






    wow guys i wonder why ORCS are prefered over PANDAS

    - - - Updated - - -

    BONUS ROUND




    WTH ARE THOSE HELM AND BACK QUASIMODO?

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