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  1. #201
    it's group loot though?
    even if everyone passes and raid leader needs everything, won't they be bound by the ilvl trading restrictions?
    also, i didn't think you could need on items you can't use, or that isn't your armor type?

  2. #202
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Hmmm , *adds a bunch of problems* you say - what problems?

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    There is difference between been toxic with loot and distributing loot to people who matter on certain bosses during progression.
    Greed, favoritism, and nepotism come to mind...easy to abuse the system and use people

  3. #203
    It doesn't sound like ML is really coming back, which is a good thing.

    The problem with it is that quite a few raid guilds are a bit like a high school clique and/or have a group of 3-4 friends that are always prioritized for loot. Those guilds consider everyone outside the clique disposable. You have to apply to a raid guild, go through weeks of raids with them, and "bad" guilds will do the slow drip. They'll say, we're giving this to this other player, but next time it drops you'll get it. Then after a few weeks you realize what's going on and that the only loot they give non-buddies are things they already have. Go through that with a couple guilds and you'll find yourself taking a long wow break from frustration...

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    It doesn't sound like ML is really coming back, which is a good thing.

    The problem with it is that quite a few raid guilds are a bit like a high school clique and/or have a group of 3-4 friends that are always prioritized for loot. Those guilds consider everyone outside the clique disposable. You have to apply to a raid guild, go through weeks of raids with them, and "bad" guilds will do the slow drip. They'll say, we're giving this to this other player, but next time it drops you'll get it. Then after a few weeks you realize what's going on and that the only loot they give non-buddies are things they already have. Go through that with a couple guilds and you'll find yourself taking a long wow break from frustration...
    It does kind of make sense to give loot to the players they know will stay in the guild, but I can't imagine anyone joining a guild where the loot rules aren't made clear in advance.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Greed, favoritism, and nepotism come to mind...easy to abuse the system and use people
    I doubt that loot will be the only issue with those notions present inside the guild. And hey, freedom of choice : don't like loot distribution? find a guild/raid with PL, no one is forcing you.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    i also remember multiple threads of those horrible ninja looter stories getting called out as liars

    the only way trials could go weeks without loot is a bad guild who never did farm because during my two week trial i got loot because farm and one trial near the end of WoD got essentially fully geared in a week because we were all geared

    the main people who whine are when they come into a boss that the group has been working on and then they see a piece of loot drop and think they need it because gearing the trial is better for the guild and they put in the effort...ignoring the fact someone else put in more and likely performed better.

    Were there bad groups?? yea but likely they were less than the amount of groups that had wasted loot because of the ilvl restrictions
    Precisely this. I've called out liars on this forum and we all know 99% of the ninja loot/asshole RL/GM stories are just fiction or out of context subjective bullshit.

    Did guilds institute a 2-week policy of trials not getting loot? Sure. Ask yourself why. If you ran a guild with dedicated people and you needed to plug a few holes, you'd wanna make sure that the next batch of recruits truly want to raid with you and aren't here to snake your gear. But then again, if you don't want to deal with a trial period, maybe it's time for you to start your own group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordjust View Post
    Define "loot they deserve". Preach is a big advocate for masterloot because in his raid environment (raiding with friends) it's beneficial for him. At the same time he has a viodeo on his chanel about his second guild he was in back in vanilla where he got one pair of bracer over the course of raiding in that guild while doing all raids after molten core. Explanantion from his guild master and master looter was that it's the loot he deserves. Guild lead and officers have first dip, twinks from guild lead and officers are technically still guild lead and officers so their twinks also have first dip and it's generally a bigger upgrade for the twinks in the first place.

    Also in a raid environment it isn't always easy to see who contributed what to a fight. We have people in the guild who do more damage than others but parse worse for their ilvl and don't play mechanics but get loot funneled if possible (mostly trinkets or jailer weapon this tier). Reasoning of the raid lead is that their doing more damage and with better gear will do even more damage, while the items would be an overall bigger dps increase for another player, because they play better. Or another example. We were struggling at anduin. Second transition with the walls we struggled killing the second wave of small mobs that spawn. I switched to mecriless bonegrinder and delayed my bladestorm for the second wave of mobs. Killed the mobs and killed the boss. Praise got another warrior who was top dps overall but did like no dps on any of the adds. With ML he would've probalby gotten the shoulder module because it was an ilvl upgrade for him while it completed my 4 set.
    You deserve loot off of a boss when you meaningfully contribute to a boss kills and/or the previous progression of a raid team. Or however the GM has determined is contributing. It's pretty subjective. And if you don't like the rules, start your own guild and make up your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    I doubt that loot will be the only issue with those notions present inside the guild. And hey, freedom of choice : don't like loot distribution? find a guild/raid with PL, no one is forcing you.
    I keep telling people this but what it comes down to is control. The players that are not dedicated to raid groups and don't have the skill or guts to start their own group want to make sure that any group out there is using PL. Now that there's a choice, they know that the chances of joining a PL guild is slim to nil. So they're pissed.

    Blizz knew it was a mistake and they're quickly changing it.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusblood View Post
    Precisely this. I've called out liars on this forum and we all know 99% of the ninja loot/asshole RL/GM stories are just fiction or out of context subjective bullshit.

    Did guilds institute a 2-week policy of trials not getting loot? Sure. Ask yourself why. If you ran a guild with dedicated people and you needed to plug a few holes, you'd wanna make sure that the next batch of recruits truly want to raid with you and aren't here to snake your gear. But then again, if you don't want to deal with a trial period, maybe it's time for you to start your own group.

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    You deserve loot off of a boss when you meaningfully contribute to a boss kills and/or the previous progression of a raid team. Or however the GM has determined is contributing. It's pretty subjective. And if you don't like the rules, start your own guild and make up your own.

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    I keep telling people this but what it comes down to is control. The players that are not dedicated to raid groups and don't have the skill or guts to start their own group want to make sure that any group out there is using PL. Now that there's a choice, they know that the chances of joining a PL guild is slim to nil. So they're pissed.

    Blizz knew it was a mistake and they're quickly changing it.
    i do know a few groups that would DE gear instead of handing it to trials HOWEVER those guilds only lasted as long as the people who allowed it to

  8. #208
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusblood View Post
    Precisely this. I've called out liars on this forum and we all know 99% of the ninja loot/asshole RL/GM stories are just fiction or out of context subjective bullshit.

    Did guilds institute a 2-week policy of trials not getting loot? Sure. Ask yourself why. If you ran a guild with dedicated people and you needed to plug a few holes, you'd wanna make sure that the next batch of recruits truly want to raid with you and aren't here to snake your gear. But then again, if you don't want to deal with a trial period, maybe it's time for you to start your own group.
    One thing that will truly matter is how loot drops. E.g. in Cata & MoP 25man raids dropped so much loot that trials would almost always end up getting gear from the farm bosses because people would just stop needing it very fast. But with the loot drought in current raids Master Looter would be much more pressed as a system since the dearth of loot would mean people are far more likely to get nothing in a run.

    With crafting being so central in DF I think Master Looter can make sense if we get a lot of crafting materials in raids which are on personal loot. Then you'd have a gearing progression running parallel to gear dropped in the raid which would make attending far more worthwhile even if you end up getting nothing.

  9. #209
    For the vast majority of people, ML is trash. The only people who want it are successful mythic guilds with rosters of actually skilled players who would make proper efficient use of “BiS” items, and the rest of the 3/10M guilds who like to pretend.

    Most guilds (the pretenders) will try to operate as similarly as they can to the top guilds. Except rather than their loot going to players who will utilize it efficiently, it goes to their buddies who play the god tier specs barely parsing green. Anyone who might speak against it will be told “Jimmy is playing the best spec to make the most use out of this loot, so he’ll get it first” regardless of the fact that Tommy consistently pulls 15-20% more DPS than Jimmy.

    I’m glad for the mythic raiders who need this, truly. But it is going to cause a shitstorm for the rest of us. The argument “you don’t need the loot if you’re not pushing Mythic” simply doesn’t work. We all play this game for fun and enjoyment. All retail has going is loot drops… regardless of difficulty, if every Tom, Dick, and Harry make it worse for everyone because they wanna simulate their favorite raiders… well… see you in a year, we can reminisce about how we thought Shadowlands was rough.

    I can only hope my guild sticks with PL, because I’ll be damned if I’m forced to hand something over without the opportunity to roll on it.

  10. #210

    Group loot is not master loot

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    it's effectively the same, unless they are going to keep the highest ilvl based trade restrictions, but it didn't sound that way.

    it'll just be "everybody pass and let the raidleader loot everything" in guildruns.
    Group loot isnt the same as master not by a mile, group loot means that everything drop from mail to cloth, from bows to swords even if you havent a class tthat can use that type of armor or weapon. The RL cannot say who gets it.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Elsiriana View Post
    Group loot isnt the same as master not by a mile, group loot means that everything drop from mail to cloth, from bows to swords even if you havent a class tthat can use that type of armor or weapon. The RL cannot say who gets it.
    no but the RL can kick you out of the group/guild if you don't do what he says.

    everybody who has ever raided in a masterloot guild has run into the situation where someone forgets to turn on master loot and its on group loot by accident, it doesn't suddenly turn the loot rules into the game rules.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2022-08-01 at 04:47 PM.

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