Defund the Police U.S or anywhere?

[Doctor Amadeus]

So no cops on the streets, how would you enforce the law?

I think uuuhname is trying to basically say treat the reason for the desperate need for cops vs piling money on police.


Keep in mind dude we spend more money on POLICE than many countries including allies spend on their Military.


Seriously

[wunksta]

Well if your cops are actually smart enough to be in charge of public safety, and aren't trigger happy pussy, I would understand your perspective. In the U.S however we have a lot of immature, Punisher wannabe morons, who couldn't show any ounce of bravery unless a suspect is fucking unarmed and a drug addict.

Well it seems like a lot of cities ignore the conditions that lead to crime, so crime increases which leads to demands for more police. Due to the demand, they lower standards to get more police out in areas that have crime. We already have police with military gear, training and funding but it isn't helping. It just creates more problems.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Jesus Fucking Christ dude...
.

Sorry WoW, Ok I was wrong yeah I see what you're saying. Yeah Agree these morons do NOT need anymore military grade equipment.

[Kreuger]

I think uuuhname is trying to basically say treat the reason for the desperate need for cops vs piling money on police.


Keep in mind dude we spend more money on POLICE than many countries including allies spend on their Military.


Seriously

And I agree with the sentiment that we should be working on the underlying problems, but even in the most stable and prosperous nation you will need cops on the streets to enforce the laws. There will allways be people that wont work within a society

[Doctor Amadeus]

Not sure this statement is true.

Ok I'll elaborate, if you raise the Minimum wage to $25 there are HUGE industry groups that ill in turn raise prices on goods even if it's gradual and cut cost meaning fire people to jeopardize any threat to their bottom line especially to stock holders.

Keep in MOST people don't NEED a lot of the shit produced they come to depend on, so while consumption falling is it's own problem, the bottom line is those who are greedy beyond reason aren't going to change their behaviors, anymore than the poor are going to change theirs.


Poor people it's often because of ignorance, super wealthy it's because of Stupidity, meaning a choice to not give a fuck as long in the end it doesn't come close to hurting them.

That's why setting a dollar amount will always be besides the point of minimum wage which is to MAKE business pay their fair share, which is why it needs to be a Percentage, not a nominal number that can be navigated around.

- - - Updated - - -

And I agree with the sentiment that we should be working on the underlying problems, but even in the most stable and prosperous nation you will need cops on the streets to enforce the laws. There will allways be people that wont work within a society

Yeah exactly when peoples basic needs are being met and by needs I mean they have enough to live and be upwardly mobile provided they WORK regardless as to what or how hard. Then you eliminate the NEED for crime.

Crime will always exist because of Greed.

But a guy steeling Medicine, Water or Basic Food or Shelter, ALWAYS has my support.


Someone looting a TV or embezzling money can go fuck themselves.

[Kreuger]

Yeah exactly when peoples basic needs are being met and by needs I mean they have enough to live and be upwardly mobile provided they WORK regardless as to what o how hard. Then you eliminate the NEED for crime.

Crime will always exist because of Greed.

But a guy steeling Medicine, Water or Basic Food or Shelter, ALWAYS has my support.


Someone looting a TV or embezzling money can go fuck themselves.

Agree, Im just saying that even with a great society where we have filled that basic need for all we will need cops around since other impulses will create crime and there has to be a statebacked force to handle these things.

Hopefully in that situation it would mean a alot smaller force etc

[wunksta]

Someone looting a TV or embezzling money can go fuck themselves.

Right, and police aren't really going to help you recover your TV. Besides the fact that white collar crime is a way bigger problem than petty theft. Wage theft alone accounts for more financial losses than common robbery, burglary and auto theft.

[Milchshake]

Police forces were created in cities in the mid 1800s because businesses were paying private security to guard their property. Police forces were a way of nationalizing (or I guess municipalizing) those private firms. If you abolish the police they'd likely return to that... Imagine, getting beat to death by Drake's private security. Oh wait ....

The obvious answer is to Nationalize the Police. Maybe too on the nose for Online Socialists....
A national standard for recruitment and training.
A court martial system.
No unions, fraternal organizations, sorry.
If you love copying cool shit from Europe, think of it as a Gendarmes or Carabinieri.

[NineSpine]

What about situations like this?











I agree




These will cause higher inflation mostly making 25$ the new $7.50.


Unless its a percentage of Cost of Living in a Area and regulations are put in place to control gouging by industry, inflation is going to be the end result.

That's just not how it works. Would it cause SOME DEGREE of inflation? Probably, but it is not going to cause the type of inflation you are describing, and no data has ever shown that that would be the outcome.

- - - Updated - - -

So no cops on the streets, how would you enforce the law?

You are conflating "cops" and "law enforcement". Law enforcement does not need to take the form of a constantly patrolling armed force.

[Kathandira]

Recognizing these forums consist of people from all over, I ask this more as a general idea AND preface these questions as more than do we or don't we BUT what are prudent alternatives.

For example situations that might be more likely to require someone to respond to a mental health crises.

Should we Defund the Police?


If we defund the Police what would an alternative look like?



Personally when it comes to this I am a more on the we shouldn't defund the police, mostly because there are NO alternatives reasonable for such services, and despite the history of the Police I think repurposing and retraining would be best.

I think along with more modern technology for incapacitating suspects without lethal force. That would be easier and more effective, and less damaging.


What is your opinion aside from whether you support or or don't support defunding the police?

The titles movements are given always fail to actually represent the desired outcomes.

Defund the police. You say this to someone who doesn't know what it means, and they simply thing it means to reduce the number of officers, and literally remove funding.

Reallocation of resources is what is desired, but the title doesn't represent that at all.

But yes, I do absolutely support the reallocation of resources that our local law enforcement organizations are responsible for.

- - - Updated - - -

How much would you defund them? Cause I figure you would still want them around?

^ case in point. The terminology is quite misleading.

- - - Updated - - -

These will cause higher inflation mostly making 25$ the new $7.50.

Kinda of off topic. But as many say often enough.

$25/hr will be the new $7.50/hr regardless.

[Rustedsaint]

Enforcing a higher training standard and managed their budgets better yes.
The USA is too far gone to just completely remove cops.

[Endus]

Again, so we're all clear, "defund the police" means shifting duties like traffic control and mental health care checks and so forth off police, and onto specialists with the training and resources to provide proper service there.

It's not even really anti-police, unless you're a police department that likes buying stupid military gear you don't need with massively-inflated budgets.

Ok I'll elaborate, if you raise the Minimum wage to $25 there are HUGE industry groups that ill in turn raise prices on goods even if it's gradual and cut cost meaning fire people to jeopardize any threat to their bottom line especially to stock holders.

Ridiculously simple solution; index minimum wages or basic incomes to cost-of-living indices, so they're automatically adjusted on a yearly or twice-yearly basis.

Problem 100% solved, and those industry groups' action would do nothing but devalue the dollar, meaning the federal government would have every reason to step in and stop their manipulations.

Super bad take, dude. The only reason prices could ever rise even close to the pace that wages rise is greedy capitalists exploiting the system. And if that's a problem, the solution is to take out the capitalists, not to keep wages at starvation levels.

[jeezusisacasual]

In order to fix the crime situation which in turn effects the police situation you have to tackle the main reasons poverty related crime comes to be. I would use each states budgetary office to create a inflation adjusted index for min. wage, boom thats fixed forever sure it does not give an easy way to run on but it is done and fixed for good. Fixing poverty related crimes would go very long way in helping police in general.

Next would be to have standards for the police be much higher then they currently are. A healthy start would be to have a federal guideline to weed out the power hungry asshats. Things like mental health evaluations, national background checks, physical activity checks, forced interracial partners, access to proper support network to help ease the stress of the job.

Very basic level stuff here would go a very long way.

[Veggie50]

The police in the USA suffer from being overburdened. Police is not a patch for any societal problem, but the USA applies them as such.

This means the police recieve training in a multitude of tasks. So many, that the training on each facet is inadequate.

Defund the police does not mean “fuck the police”. Defund them, focus their tasks so you can set higher standards for them. For the tasks that fall off, create different entities like social workers.

This is better for the police AND the people, it’s not an us vs them.

[Shadowferal]

1 million police in a country of 300 million.
Good luck getting rid of those guns.

[Endus]

1 million police in a country of 300 million.
Good luck getting rid of those guns.

It's not that hard. You just criminalize ownership, and when someone's found to own an illegal weapon, that's a crime that gets them an extra 3-5 years on their sentence. Or their only conviction, for that matter.

There's always this nonsense idea that all the guns need to be picked up, but that's like saying you can't pass drug laws unless it immediately prevents literally all drug trafficking and use.

[Shadowferal]

It's not that hard. You just criminalize ownership, and when someone's found to own an illegal weapon, that's a crime that gets them an extra 3-5 years on their sentence. Or their only conviction, for that matter. There's always this nonsense idea that all the guns need to be picked up, but that's like saying you can't pass drug laws unless it immediately prevents literally all drug trafficking and use.

No cops. No enforcement.
Come to Philly after they get rid of the cops.

[Shadowferal]

Had this conversation before.
You'd think that after George Floyd's death Minneapolis would have voted to replace police with a "public-health oriented" Department of Public Safety. But voters said nope. Minneapolis voters reject a measure to replace the city's police department

[Santti]

It seems like there is still some confusion over the whole "defund the police" thing.

It's not about just removing funding from cops and having less of them around because we don't like cops. It's about shifting their obligations to other more specialized units. Currently in the US, it seems like all the society's ills have been handed over for the cops to deal with, when, more or less, all they have been trained with is how to handle a gun. Sure, you could throw in more money towards them to train them to properly handle fucking everything, but they seem to rather use that funding for more military surplus gear. It's absolutely insane to see videos of how cops have been sent to respond to handle a kid having a fucking tantrum, and surely enough, all they know is how to pepper spray the kid. That would absolutely never happen in over here.

[PACOX]

Remember when Progressives wanted to defund the police and Liberals were on board until their Vonservative friends at the office started complaining?

And then Progressives said fine, "reallocate police funds into auxiliary units, social programs, and better training", not nearly as sexy and boring but people can't say it means "abolish the police".

Liberals said okay. But then elections came and they turned on the Progressives. Then they lost seats and blamed the Progressives. And then they gave police more money. And then Uvalde happened.

Our politicians are too chickenshit to put in the work and face the blowback from conservatives who only vote for them once every 20 years than see what "defund the police" even looks like on paper.

- - - Updated - - -

It seems like there is still some confusion over the whole "defund the police" thing.

It's not about just removing funding from cops and having less of them around because we don't like cops. It's about shifting their obligations to other more specialized units. Currently in the US, it seems like all the society's ills have been handed over for the cops to deal with, when, more or less, all they have been trained with is how to handle a gun. Sure, you could throw in more money towards them to train them to properly handle fucking everything, but they seem to rather use that funding for more military surplus gear. It's absolutely insane to see videos of how cops have been sent to respond to handle a kid having a fucking tantrum, and surely enough, all they know is how to pepper spray the kid. That would absolutely never happen in over here.

Its because for some reason the Left allows the Right to warp the definition of whose and phrases in bad faith. When some freshmen representative pushes back the old DNC heads tell them to STFU.


Everyone with a few brain cells knows what "Defund the Police", the same way everyone knows what "Black Lives Matters" or what Clinton meant when she called some of Trump's supporters "deplorable" even "pro-choice". The Left allows the Right to flip go on press tours to flip the meaning of words until we have to accept the Rights strawman.