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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Ah, so similar to Worgen. Such a pity - thanks for the clarification.

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    I am because I want to play Evoker.
    No you don't... Honestly you keep picking apart everything, you don't like it..

    There does come a point where the game is not catered to yourself and maybe you should look for something more suitable, as you are obviously not happy with WoW and it's direction.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    honest question, is playing a worgen that stays in human form not solved by simply playing a human?
    You would think so.

    Just like if people want to play an elven caster, they could just roll a Mage, Priest, Warlock, or Druid instead of trying to ruin the Evoker.

  3. #83
    IT's good you automatically turn back to your vissage again after combat.

    I don't know why they don't allow this as an option for Worgen too.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  4. #84
    Op wants to look at yet another 'elf', amusing.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    IT's good you automatically turn back to your vissage again after combat.

    I don't know why they don't allow this as an option for Worgen too.
    I wouldn't be surprised if they did whenever the new customisation wave comes their way.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Can't play the class without the race - if you impose that restriction, yet give two forms, you have no other outlet, which is why the class must allow both.

    You hate the visage form - you don't have to use it, yet you want people who prefer it to be content without having to use it...

    Your attitude reminds me of the people who see beggars or homeless on the street, and want them cleared off because you just don't like the sight of them, they don't affect you, it's not you - but you don't like their look

    Just like those who don't like "ugly" people and don't want to see them or races they don't like and want them all packed off "back to their country" because you don't like the look of them, and they're too many, even though you have and look exactly the way you want.
    Yes, leap immediately to ad hominem, why don't you? You know nothing.

    I do not hate elves. I hate the ruination of good things.

    You are the fool who haws on endlessly about night elf mages—a heresy against all that is good about night elven tradition. The death of culture, fictional as it may be. It is things like this and the void elves, self-defining as traitors to their own race by their very existence, that takes the "world" out of WoW, lost to fools like you who beg to have their perfect and pristine vision of their elven avatar, not caring one whit what you trample to get it. It is pathetic.

    Now you wish to do it again, ruining another good thing in the process. Get thee gone.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Yes, leap immediately to ad hominem, why don't you? You know nothing.

    I do not hate elves. I hate the ruination of good things.

    You are the fool who haws on endlessly about night elf mages—a heresy against all that is good about night elven tradition. The death of culture, fictional as it may be. It is things like this and the void elves, self-defining as traitors to their own race by their very existence, that takes the "world" out of WoW, lost to fools like you who beg to have their perfect and pristine vision of their elven avatar, not caring one whit what you trample to get it. It is pathetic.

    Now you wish to do it again, ruining another good thing in the process. Get thee gone.
    I just see a lot of subjective opinion on lore which I don't share.

    You hate the ruination of good things, you judge and label and fail to demonstrate a good grasp of what you are talking about - I actually fail to see your point na d suggrst you take your own advise.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    you judge and label and fail to demonstrate a good grasp of what you are talking about - I actually fail to see your point
    As opposed to your enlightened understanding of elvish culture, which you've plastered page up and page down with in which you demonstrate with painful clarity that you really wish your fanfic view of night elves was real?

    Worry not, though: I shall make my point much more briefly than you—Wc3 night elf good, WoW night elf bad. WoW harmful to night elf culture. You harmful.

    na d suggrst you take your own advise.
    Nothing would please me more—as soon as you stop trying to poison what was never created for your delicate sensibilities in the first place. The Dracthyr do not exist for you to corrupt. I am here solely to combat your nonsense.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I hope it doesn't... I mean I can understand the immersion argument in this case but I really don't want another beast form that can't be mogged and personally looks unappealing to me.
    Then do not play it ???

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    Also you will be able to make it so everytime you leave combat, you go back to visage form.
    _____________________

    Homophobia is so gay.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Worry not, though: I shall make my point much more briefly than you—Wc3 night elf good, WoW night elf bad. WoW harmful to night elf culture. You harmful.
    Disagree with you man - while wow night elf could have been much better and suffered from neglect, it was a progression that fit the race, just not the best side of the race. Still some good aspects, all the legion stuff was good, and i liked the night warrior stuff - even though it was not enough aif you ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    IT's good you automatically turn back to your vissage again after combat.

    I don't know why they don't allow this as an option for Worgen too.
    I think this is now the case in the latest build, or will be soon, you can toggle a default form, and it will switch you back to it. At least for visage form this means you will go back to it after combat.

    Still want you to go back to it after using dragon shifting abilities.

  11. #91
    If they made it possible to fight in visage ppl would claim new race is a lazy reskin of existing races with a useless transformation like the worgen human form.
    Besides, I don't think Blizz is too worried about people who only play human lookalikes. It's a high fantasy game. To me a dragon creature is way more interesting than yet another human. And I main a belf, mind you.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    If they made it possible to fight in visage ppl would claim new race is a lazy reskin of existing races with a useless transformation like the worgen human form.
    Besides, I don't think Blizz is too worried about people who only play human lookalikes. It's a high fantasy game. To me a dragon creature is way more interesting than yet another human. And I main a belf, mind you.
    I highly doubt that, there is nothing lazy about the visage from or the dragon form, when you compare it to any other race in the came, it's like 3 times as much - such statements expose the starter of bias and agenda.

    IT is possible to fight in visage form, but not for long, the idea is not to remove dragon form from the fight, but to have the option to be able switch back to visage form once the dragon ability is over because you prefer that form more.. Dragon form has the advantage because it can do all the abilities in Dragon form, so you can constantly stay there and never see a humanoid.

    The option here makes visage form possible to be the more primary form of choice, which should be possible. Look there are people who love dragon form and are welcome to stay in it, but there are those who love visage form and like to see their armour, so would prefer to stay in that - this option the druid never got and I think it would make the Dracthyr more appealing to more people without any drawbacks.. dragonform lovers won't be affected.

    But some people are spoilt children, despite the fact they get what they want, they just don't want others to get what they don't like, even when it doesn't affect them, - they are exactly the type that don't want to see people of other races around, or hate seeing beggars on the street, not because it breaks their heart, b ut because they don't like the ugly appearance and don't want it in their view - even though they are not affected at all. There are people like that, sadly.
    Last edited by Mace; 2022-07-21 at 01:10 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    but to have the option to be able switch back to visage form once the dragon ability is over because you prefer that form more..
    If you prefer the visage, you shouldn't be rolling a dracthyr in the first place.

    dragonform lovers won't be affected.
    False. As long as visage exists, Blizzard has an unacceptable and lazy way of sleazing out of making transmog function for the dragon form.

    But some people are spoilt children, despite the fact they get what they want
    Indeed—you. You have an entire smorgasbord of elf to pick from, but you insist on infecting the non-elvish dragon race with your garbage.

    As it stands, the dracthyr is feature-incomplete and has only a single class to its name—and it can't even tank, which is deplorable. There are four flavors of elf, with access to every class except dracthyr and I guess shaman. But still you demand more, like a spoiled kid who wants more, endlessly. And then you have the arrogance to accuse others of your own sins.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    If you prefer the visage, you shouldn't be rolling a dracthyr in the first place.
    Says who? i don't htink tha'ts the point of giving such a detailed visage form - in fact he opposite. The diea is that if you prefer that instead, youc an still roll aDracthyr.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post

    False. As long as visage exists, Blizzard has an unacceptable and lazy way of sleazing out of making transmog function for the dragon form.
    World view according to you. you can be in Dragonform all the time, in and all throughout combat if that is what you like.. so having a visage form, if you hate it, doesn't affect you because you don't ever have to switch to it.. not even on mounting any longer.


    I also don't think the real motivation for such a detailed vesage form was to get out of making a transmog function for the dragon form.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Indeed—you. You have an entire smorgasbord of elf to pick from, but you insist on infecting the non-elvish dragon race with your garbage.
    Your anti-elf obsession is paranoid.

    You full well know that the Visage form are not elven at all. Just because the male uses the blood elf skeleton? I mean, Botanni and Zandalari males also use the night elf form - I don't see you calling them elven. You're combining your anger at lack of dragon form transmog with your anti-elf sentiment. That's all, there is no credibility to your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    As it stands, the dracthyr is feature-incomplete and has only a single class to its name—and it can't even tank, which is deplorable. There are four flavors of elf, with access to every class except dracthyr and I guess shaman. But still you demand more, like a spoiled kid who wants more, endlessly. And then you have the arrogance to accuse others of your own sins.
    Dracthyr should become shaman so i can get my elf shaman through them.. but wait, Dracthyr aren't elves - not in dragon or visage form.. so you are talking all jumbled up.

    Dracthyr could use improvements, but the night elf male could use improvements and I'm sure fans of nearly every race would point out to you thinkgs that need fixing or could improve.

    IF your biggest gripe is lack of transmog for the dragon form, I am on board with you for that, but don't start using it as some sort of excuse to spout your anti-elf crusade. You will just detract from a rather valid point about the xmog for the dragon form.


    Currently as it stands, the dynamic is out of whack - because if only the Dracthyr visage form can be xmoggable, but you deny the capability of using it in combat, then it makes it even more redundant and un-necessarily so. Visage form is part of the identity of the race and the nature of the dragonoid - they are part humanoid and part dragon -- please read the FUCKING lore. So they have access to both.


    Blizzard have every right to make both available an d useable, however there is an issue here, it makes no sense for visage form not to be useable for all of combat, with only dragon abilities forcing a dragon form transformation and reverting back to visage if that is your preferred form. Because that is what a Dracthyr is. It becomes even more vital to be able to do this because the dragon form has no transmog capability yet. this is a separate issue oc that should be corrected), but it makes visage form even more important, and not being able to use it all the way in combat to me is problematic

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    Then do not play it ???

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    Also you will be able to make it so everytime you leave combat, you go back to visage form.
    This, totally this!

    At this point people are complaining for the sake of complaining because im pretty sure a few days ago I read a post about a person wanting to be only in Dragon form during combat but was still upset because they would have to manually toggle being a dragon for mounting alone... I mean seriously...

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    My hope is that they expand visage options instead of "opening up" the class to other races. If you had a tauren visage option, would you need to be able to roll a tauren evoker?
    This seems the most likely path. Dracthyr will eventually get to be other classes, and then likely function more closely to Worgen in combat. That'll be relatively easy since a dragon form isn't required for any other classes combat, so the Chosen Identity power could likely cover preferences there.

    But Evoker abilities seem innately tied to having a dragon form, so future Evokers would need to either shift into that, or, as you've suggested, they could simply expand visage customizations to allow for other races.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    World view according to you. you can be in Dragonform all the time, in and all throughout combat if that is what you like.. so having a visage form, if you hate it, doesn't affect you because you don't ever have to switch to it.. not even on mounting any longer.
    Good job proving you missed the point entirely.
    Your anti-elf obsession is paranoid.
    I am not anti-elf. I am anti-fanatic. That is to say, I hate idiots such as you, Varodoc, anyone who ever asked for high elves, and actually, you know what, it's not even limited to elves because I hate other fanatics who blindly idolize and drool over one specific faction, such as all these zealous Garrosh or Sylvanas fans.

    Quit inventing narratives and pushing them on others.
    You full well know that the Visage form are not elven at all.
    Then why is it that you're so obsessed with them? That obsession is why they must be destroyed, not because they're elves.
    IF your biggest gripe is lack of transmog for the dragon form, I am on board with you for that, but don't start using it as some sort of excuse to spout your anti-elf crusade. You will just detract from a rather valid point about the xmog for the dragon form.
    My gripes are twofold: that Blizzard are leaving a huge, massively-important feature out of the dragon form because they can get away with it due to apologists like you, and that Blizzard are focusing any attention on this visage nonsense at all and are marketing it at you elf-drooling fools. That is the wrong target audience and is not what the dragon race that is a dragon class should be about. You taint it by your mere existence because Blizzard are mistakenly bending over backwards to appeal to this tasteless elf-mongering nonsense, because they know it sells. But dragons are not pretty elves, and by seeking to appeal to people whom it should never have been aimed at, nobody will end up happy. That's a basic fundamental.
    Visage form is part of the identity of the race and the nature of the dragonoid - they are part humanoid and part dragon -- please read the FUCKING lore.
    That's not how game design works. Lore exists as an excuse to create good gameplay. Mechanics must match aesthetics and vice versa. If the lore does not serve the mechanics and the aesthetics, it gets in the way and serves no purpose. It must be discarded.

    The visage form has no purpose. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't need to exist. It takes away from the aesthetics and compromises the mechanics. It is actively detrimental to the core concept of a playable dragon.

    If the dragon form was a true dragon with six limbs and a large size, there would be a reason for the visage form to exist as it would be mechanically necessary for the player to explore the world. I would not complain then. But that is not the case, and therefore it is vestigial garbage that only exists to appeal to the likes of you. The visage form is a marketing stunt and therefore I hate it.
    Last edited by Arikara; 2022-07-25 at 06:45 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Good job proving you missed the point entirely.
    You missed my point first - that is what I am responding to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    I am not anti-elf. I am anti-fanatic. That is to say, I hate idiots such as you, Varodoc, anyone who ever asked for high elves, and actually, you know what, it's not even limited to elves because I hate other fanatics who blindly idolize and drool over one specific faction, such as all these zealous Garrosh or Sylvanas fans.
    So you know you're all anti - so you just go around raging agianst people who love anything fanatical - or at least that which you perceive.

    So now I am an idiot, as is Varadoc - and you hate us for asking for high elves? And because of that you hate Dracthyr visage form

    Right, I think it's not easy to have a conversation with you at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Quit inventing narratives and pushing them on others.
    That's rich, considering what I've been reading from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Then why is it that you're so obsessed with them? That obsession is why they must be destroyed, not because they're elves.
    Get a new hobby then, if your gripe is with others obsessions, at least gripe about real world harmful obsessions, like greed, coveting and thigns that actually affect the lives of people in society, rather than someone else's hobby fave items or mythical pixel screens.

    You sound as unhinged as Syegfryed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    My gripes are twofold: that Blizzard are leaving a huge, massively-important feature out of the dragon form because they can get away with it due to apologists like you
    Apologists? For blizzard? You're having a laugh mate - here I am mentioning something I'd like to see they haven't done, and you are accusing me of making excuses for them. Why? Because I give them credit for work they do that I find good? You forget I am pointing out that something is missing i'd like to see added. And why should I hesitate to comment that work they do is good when I find it good? Should I only talk about the things I hate?

    And so because you are not happy with someone else, you come in intruding on another topic and having ago at the author for not harping on about what you're upset about - I mean ever thought of making your own topic about it?

    or how about mentioning it without criticising other players - if your vendetta is against elf players, you're not winning anyone over with that attitude, considering most of the wow population plays those elven races.

    Who is opposed to dragon from xmooggability? I am not, I haven't seen any one who likes elves or admires visage form (which isn't an elf) opposed to it - and you think people are going to support you when you immediately start attacking them because you don't like that they like something you don't care about and can't see that they don't have to join your bandwagon or crusade if they don't want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    , and that Blizzard are focusing any attention on this visage nonsense at all and are marketing it at you elf-drooling fools. That is the wrong target audience and is not what the dragon race that is a dragon class should be about. You taint it by your mere existence because Blizzard are mistakenly bending over backwards to appeal to this tasteless elf-mongering nonsense, because they know it sells. But dragons are not pretty elves, and by seeking to appeal to people whom it should never have been aimed at, nobody will end up happy. That's a basic fundamental.
    You sound crazy - Why don't you calm down, let your frustration melt way, and then calmly think about what you are saying and what is being done.

    you seem to forget that visage form is entirely a core part of the identity of the dracthyr which is a humanoid and dragon fusion - unlike Drakonids (whether bi-pedal or quadraped - that are entirely dragon based with no humanoid in them. Having a visage form and a dragon form is part of what the race is - which is why you can fight in either form and which is why both are incredibly detailed.

    Having visage form doesn't invalidate the dracthyr - as a dragonoid race, it isn't obsolete or meant to be just an off thing - it's part of the concept - and they wanted it that way. Shooting down fans for liking it because you think they like elves and that's why they like visage from (another mental hoola hoop), then bashing them for it - is just so self defeating, not to mention a little bit unhinged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    That's not how game design works. Lore exists as an excuse to create good gameplay. Mechanics must match aesthetics and vice versa. If the lore does not serve the mechanics and the aesthetics, it gets in the way and serves no purpose. It must be discarded.
    you simply forget that it's blizzard that determine both, they go with what they want to go with, if they wanted a pure dragon, they could have made us be dragons of the four flights, they could have also gone for Drakonids and updated their models, they went for a new concept - created it, and built it's lore - it's part of the package, - that is how their design works.

    if you don't like Dracthyr because they are also humanoid in part - then rail against blizzard for making them such, not against people who like the visage form design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    The visage form has no purpose.
    Again in your opinion. Not only subjective but clearly not design intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    It doesn't do anything. It doesn't need to exist.
    In your opinion again, go invent your own race or propose it and make it happen, you can choose to have it be a monolith and serve whatever you want, but it seems like just because you don't like something - it doesn't need to exist.

    It's not your work, if you don't like the work so badly, do something else, play something else, write them about it- what you complaining to me about it?

    You hate it me because i like something you don't like. You hate me, a real person because i like a made up race in a fantasy video game of pixels that isn't even real - in a product you probably enjoy more than me.

    Right


    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    It takes away from the aesthetics and compromises the mechanics. It is actively detrimental to the core concept of a playable dragon.
    Because you have the option to turn to it? You don't have to use visage form at all, how does that take away the so called aesthetic?

    The Aesthtetic of the dragon form? or the aesthetic of the visage form>? your statement isn't making sense. Visage form has it's own aesthtetic, and so does the dragon form - both very different - they are entirely separate.

    Affect the theme of the Dracthyr? It is part of the theme of the dracthyr to have two forms. one aesthetic seems largely independent of the others as you can customise both independently, secondly it appears the Visage form takes inspiration from the Dragon form - but even if the reverse were true, it is part of the race.

    Oh and pointing this out is not defending anything.. this is what we are given, it is what they chose to create - you don't seem to realise this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    If the dragon form was a true dragon with six limbs and a large size, there would be a reason for the visage form to exist as it would be mechanically necessary for the player to explore the world. I would not complain then. But that is not the case, and therefore it is vestigial garbage that only exists to appeal to the likes of you. The visage form is a marketing stunt and therefore I hate it.
    The Dracthyr is not meant to be that - it's a Dracthyr - not a full dragon. Part of the dragon family but it's own thing. It's a new invention and has it's own story. They chose not to go with full dragons, nor with Drakonids.

    Instead they invented and added something they hadn't done before - they are allowed to do that in their own game and product. you don't have to like it. I have written about things I don't like about both the Dragon and visage forms for the Dracthyr , why i felt they shouldn't be race/class restricted - you missed all of that apparently.

    Yet I am not saying blizzard is wrong to do what they did, just questioning why it had to be that way.. but it is that way, so we run with it. Down the line I hope Dracthyr would have more class options and I hope other races would be evokers or Dracthyr would have visage forms of other races.

    Either way it's a new race and this is how they chose to do it, just because there are other ways they could have done it, and ways some of us feel would be better or preferred, doesn't mean this is terrible or bad. Some people feel visage form should just have been a copy of any existing race you want (which is effectively having every race be Evokers), yet if they had done that people would also say they should have made the visage form something more special than just clone an existing race - at least worgen had an excuse.

    You can criticise all you want.. not everyone would like the designs..some people love the visage form, some think it's hideous - this sis the same for every existing race in wow, some people love the dragon from, some think it's hideous.

    what is true is that by having two forms, you get more people to like the race. Both forms have their critics.. however appearance wise, visage form is largely been praised, Dragon form has issues with his "buffness" i.e. muscle bulk which is an art preference - that some have issue with and some don't. But like every race in wow, some are going to like it some aren't. The hope would be that everyone would find something cool about it.

    This is what developers want.. so why are you going about criticising those who like the visage form - it's there so that people who don't like monster forms as much can enjoy the new race - so why are you surprised they want to see it much more in combat? Dragon form is obviously a key part of the identity of the race, but yet again it's a monster race - and we know as cool as you may like it, monster races are quite niche.

    to me they are best made with humanoid forms too, and that way appeal to more people - this is not a bad thing at all, and for those who hate humanoid forms, they have the choice to stay in dragon form all the time, so why have a go at people who liek the humanoid form wanting to be in it as much as possible by their choice? it is part of the concept.

    You sound like an upset child having a tantrum and raging at everyone because he hasn't been given what he likes or wants. this is not the way to behave.
    Last edited by Mace; 2022-07-26 at 12:33 AM.

  19. #99
    The dragon form is so ugly and poorly animated that it is one of the main reasons I won't play that class. I hate the wings mostly, but the running is bad as well. If they let me stay in the human form as much as possible I might give it a shot.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyi View Post
    The dragon form is so ugly and poorly animated that it is one of the main reasons I won't play that class. I hate the wings mostly, but the running is bad as well. If they let me stay in the human form as much as possible I might give it a shot.
    Animations are fine, the power of the spells surging through their wings is a nice touch too. You not personally liking the look of them is something else entirely.

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