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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    You are appealing to how the norm "used to be" in order to advocate for hanging on to older social norms....

    This is also known as.... conservatism.

    Would you take it seriously if someone said "I oppose gay rights and interracial marriage, but that was the norm in 1950 so really I'm the liberal!"
    Liberal social norms so that still makes me a liberal. What are you guys going to do when you've completely taken over the world, but there are people who want to push even further left and you don't want to. Will you be ok being called a conservative by them or will you tell them they're wrong?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    I dunno. Im not a conservative ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Orly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    It sucks that the entire industry is being taken over by woke idealogues but ill still continue to try to push them out
    This guy disagrees with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Liberal social norms so that still makes me a liberal. What are you guys going to do when you've completely taken over the world, but there are people who want to push even further left but you don't want to. Will you be ok being called a conservative by them or will you tell them they're wrong?
    There is no "further left"; left = love who you love, be who you want to be.

    If you believe that gender fluidity of other people is some sort of issue, you are simply not liberal. Describing yourself as liberal is nonsensical.
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-07-15 at 02:31 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    Even if this was used as the definition of liberal — which it is not, but we can play along — how do you define "social progress"? To my eyes, it seems to be defined as "anything different from what we had before." What exactly are we "progressing" towards? What was wrong with the concept of gender as it has existed for tens of thousands of years?
    I'm not sure what "tens of thousands of years" you are referring to. Gender norms vary wildly by society RIGHT NOW, let alone over time. It sounds like you are appealing to a fictional static norm that never actually existed.

    Social progress is generally understood as a movement toward a more just and tolerant society that does a better job of protecting socially disadvantaged groups.
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  4. #24
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    Even if this was used as the definition of liberal — which it is not, but we can play along — how do you define "social progress"? To my eyes, it seems to be defined as "anything different from what we had before." What exactly are we "progressing" towards? What was wrong with the concept of gender as it has existed for tens of thousands of years?
    There isn't but the change someone was talking about is obviously trying to be a bit more user friendly with trans people and considering what has happened recently, Blizz needs decent PR anyways. I don't think its something to rage about though.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Orly?


    This guy disagrees with you.
    Please stop conflating not being woke with conservatives. There's an entire spectrum of us from left of center all the way to nazis that hate it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Liberal social norms so that still makes me a liberal. What are you guys going to do when you've completely taken over the world, but there are people who want to push even further left and you don't want to. Will you be ok being called a conservative by them or will you tell them they're wrong?
    I thought gay people were icky when I was young. I grew up, I progressed, and realized I was wrong.
    Then I thought trans people were icky. I grew up, I progressed, and realized I was wrong.

    So, I would hope that as society moves toward a more just social order, I will go along with it, rather than fear monger and double down on my biases and bigotry.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Please stop conflating not being woke with conservatives. There's an entire spectrum of us from left of center all the way to nazis that hate it.
    Nobody left of center gives a fuck about a guy wanting to be a girl. On the topic of gender, you are conservative.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Please stop conflating not being woke with conservatives. There's an entire spectrum of us from left of center all the way to nazis that hate it.
    Fear mongering about social progress is conservative, and ranting about woke bogeymen is most certainly fear mongering about social progress.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I'm not sure what "tens of thousands of years" you are referring to. Gender norms vary wildly by society RIGHT NOW, let alone over time. It sounds like you are appealing to a fictional static norm that never actually existed.
    Gender norms and gender roles vary greatly by time and society, I agree. What does not is the concept of gender itself, which is what I was talking about. Men have penises, women do not, etc. The basic stuff. That's what's somehow come on the chopping block in the last few years after seeming pretty settled for a very long time. That norm did exist, and something tells me it will continue to exist once this fad passes.

    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Social progress is generally understood as a movement toward a more just and tolerant society that does a better job of protecting socially disadvantaged groups.
    Sounds great, I'm all for it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    Even if this was used as the definition of liberal — which it is not, but we can play along — how do you define "social progress"? To my eyes, it seems to be defined as "anything different from what we had before." What exactly are we "progressing" towards? What was wrong with the concept of gender as it has existed for tens of thousands of years?
    It fails to account for a significant portion of the population, and thus fails as a classification system?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    Gender norms and gender roles vary greatly by time and society, I agree. What does not is the concept of gender itself, which is what I was talking about. Men have penises, women do not, etc. The basic stuff. That's what's somehow come on the chopping block in the last few years after seeming pretty settled for a very long time. That norm did exist, and something tells me will continue to exist once this fad passes.
    Gender vs. sex.
    Sounds great, I'm all for it.
    As long as it is a group you approve of, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transg...0trans%20women.

    People who don't fit gender stereotypes have existed for as long as gender stereotypes have existed. It is a reality that many more than recorded likely existed, in proportion to the likelyhood that acting in such a fashion was likely to lead to an untimely death at worst, or significantly more difficult life at best.

    It isn't something that is just appearing out of nowhere as a fad; it is a thing that has always existed, and becomes more mainstream as it becomes more accepted.


    And, as a final point, even if what you say was true (which, again, it isn't), what benefit is there to you, or to society, to maintain gender stereotypes as they used to exist? The only context in which there is any problem at all is one based almost entirely in religion, as a means of control. Why does it matter to you personally if someone else defines themselves in a way that doesn't fit your model? Why does it make them "stupid" and in need of "calling out" as the OP described it? Why would the default NOT be to simply live and let live in cases where nobody is causing harm to anyone else?
    Last edited by Delekii; 2022-07-15 at 02:44 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Orly?


    This guy disagrees with you.


    There is no "further left"; left = love who you love, be who you want to be.

    If you believe that gender fluidity of other people is some sort of issue, you are simply not liberal. Describing yourself as liberal is nonsensical.
    I find your gendered language extremely triggering. Please check your privilege and be better.

  12. #32
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    Gender norms and gender roles vary greatly by time and society, I agree. What does not is the concept of gender itself, which is what I was talking about. Men have penises, women do not, etc. The basic stuff. That's what's somehow come on the chopping block in the last few years after seeming pretty settled for a very long time. That norm did exist, and something tells me will continue to exist once this fad passes.
    That's not gender, that's sex. You had societies where there were occasionally people who were physically women, but treated as men (AKA males) due to their role in the tribe, or vice versa. Even they show more creativity and understanding of gender most people nowadays do.

    Also, INB4 this thread is shut down.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I thought gay people were icky when I was young. I grew up, I progressed, and realized I was wrong.
    Then I thought trans people were icky. I grew up, I progressed, and realized I was wrong.

    So, I would hope that as society moves toward a more just social order, I will go along with it, rather than fear monger and double down on my biases and bigotry.
    Well that's fun but i've always been a normal lib and never thought they were icky. But frankly going along with the world just because you think you're supposed to when you know it doesn't make sense just makes you unprincipled and void of any true ideals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Nobody left of center gives a fuck about a guy wanting to be a girl. On the topic of gender, you are conservative.
    Good thing I don't care about that then, huh?

  14. #34
    Coming in clutch before Aucald shuts down this one too.

    As for your post OP. We can't let people have a laugh as that offends someone and we can't have that in *insert year here* - Even if denying people a laugh may offend those seeking a laugh, but this only swings one way, not both.

    Edit: Silly me, this is not the general forum. I suppose someone else will lock this thread then.
    Last edited by Knight Meta; 2022-07-15 at 02:47 PM.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    The conservative mass hysteria and meltdown over the new inclusivity updates is just baffling. Who are the snowflakes again?
    Heh, there's a joke in there, maybe you'll spot it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It seems weird how we can't talk about their new half assed empty pandering. Why not let people have a laugh?
    So you would like to have to rules relaxed in order to have the opportunity for what exactly? The ability to be a scumbag on a gaming message board? This thread is (not) going places.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    If anything I'm having a laugh at the reaction on the official WoW reddit that somehow can't agree what is or isn't the right interpretation of the change with flak going everywhere that they literally had a mod lock all threads talking about it and straight up request people to just DM them for a ban if they have any form of criticism of the change as it makes it easier for them to categorise who they should think is a bigot. Apparently asking "Is that Bigot Type 1 or Bigot Type 2?" also gets you banned. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    Dude literally has the Bowsette as the signature which is a symbol for trans people. Well, at least I perceive the meme that way. Maybe I’m wrong.
    Oh you're so wrong if you think Bowsette has any relation to anything trans, especially with regards to how that crown works and the endless memes of 'Alright we now know who's the mother, but who's the koopa kid's father.' that arose from that fan interpretation.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    Gender norms and gender roles vary greatly by time and society, I agree. What does not is the concept of gender itself, which is what I was talking about. Men have penises, women do not, etc. The basic stuff. That's what's somehow come on the chopping block in the last few years after seeming pretty settled for a very long time. That norm did exist, and something tells me will continue to exist once this fad passes.

    Sounds great, I'm all for it.
    There is no "concept of gender itself" that includes any of these things. Gender means "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with the sexes".

    Even if you were right, "but that's the way things have always been" isn't a coherent argument for anything.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #39
    Male\Female or Man\Woman is informative and self understandable. No additional info needed

    Body 1\Body 2 is not informative and gives 0 information without picture or context.


    Step back in usability

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Well that's fun but i've always been a normal lib and never thought they were icky. But frankly going along with the world just because you think you're supposed to when you know it doesn't make sense just makes you unprincipled and void of any true ideals.
    If you think that learning and growing and changing your mind makes you unprincipled, that certainly explains the incoherency of the arguments you are making right now.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

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