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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlofski View Post
    It needs more content like Visions, it's group content but can also be played and finished as single.
    Despite my general reservations on solo content, I'm okay with something like Visions becoming a permanent fixture. Its rewards, despite going up to near-Mythic level, were not plentiful enough to have a hugely negative impact on any of the other group content in the game and it felt good to go in and blast it away on each of my alts. Just get rid of the currency grind to enter and I'd love to see something like that added. (Torghast was close but they went about its reward system entirely the wrong way, imo.)

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    People who are asking for more EXCLUSIVE solocontent or soloprogression - is deemed flakey and useless by Blizzard(they just won't invest in you - and I personally can't blame them).
    They never said that. If they really thought that there would be no solo content at all. They never would have allowed Torghast to be soloable.

    And because you are egocentric/subjective - you don't reliaze the problems you are creating:
    Talk about being insulting and condescending. Name calling makes people take you less seriously.

    1)How do you design a badguy - do you put him in a Magetower and write a story around him(i.e the Jailor)? Everybody is a hero - killing a badguy solo - is that the narrative? How does it fit the game?
    Do it just like Torghast and the Mage Tower. Who says there has to be one bad guy or the same bad guy as the raids?

    2)How do you deal with rewardsystem?
    People solo should access the same gear as raiders(you know - people who need to play a much harder game - with higher skill and social requirements).
    Nobody ever said solo players should have access to raid gear. Stop with that dishonest strrawman.

    How do you deal with gearing - which is the most essential part of the game?
    Give it normal raid gear, but at a lesser pace. This isn't hard.

    3)How does this affect the social atmosphere of the game(i.e everybody is in magetowers, torghasts etc.). WoD got critizied for killing the atmosphere, as everybody where in thier garrison - how do you avoid this problem again?
    Raiders are still going to raid. M+ players are still going to do that. Those doing solo content were never doing the previous two to being with so it has no effect on the social aspect. Torghast certainly didn't.

    You see - I think one of the biggest companies in the industry - researchs thier audiance(and they have the data - they know what people spends time on). They would implement anything, before you even would ask - as long as they would make people play and stay.
    Which is why they do things like Mage Tower and Torgahst. If they look at solo play the way you claim they do, neither one would have been soloable. They would have required a group. The fact that there is solo content already in the game says they know that there is a market for it.

    Whatever we don't have ingame - it's a strategic choice from the devs. Not because of it was mistake.
    Doesn't mean they were right. It can still be a mistake. They aren't mutually exclusive.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    All I want is stuff I can queue for and make meaningful progress on my character. This hasn't existed since MoP. MoP was awesome for being something most anyone had an avenue to enjoy in.

    What bugs the hell out of me is that people will call queueing for stuff single player content.
    Wha...? Are you referring to Scenarios? You'd only ever run them to grind VP. The gear was item level 516 which was roughly ToT Normal mode equivalent (SoO LFR was higher item level).

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Or is it? Those systems are iterated from previous ideas that morphed from content created exclusively for that expansion. Case in point: M+ is derived from the CM dungeons from MoP and WoD. That's the history of how M+ came to be. Granted the current iterations of M+ (IMO) lean to heavily on MDI and other tournament play that affects the rest of the player base in both positive and negative ways.
    Stratholme in classic had a 45 min timed run component. That is what M+ is from.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Nobody ever said solo players should have access to raid gear.
    People say this every day on some WoW forum or site. "Purple" gear existing outside of raid is proof enough of that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Otimus View Post
    All I want is stuff I can queue for and make meaningful progress on my character. This hasn't existed since MoP.
    This is what AP was, and it existed in Legion and BFA.

    MoP was the biggest failure in WoW, and everything from scrapping half of WoD onward has been undoing the MoP/Ghostcrawler damage to the game.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Or you could fuck off to a single player game? Who the hell joins a team based game and thinks that they can do whatever they want at the expense of everyone else?

    Why are you even here? In chess you can't move pieces anyway you like because bishop's are op bs and you really wanna spec pawns.
    It's 2022, imagine still thinking that "MMO" actually still means "NO SINGLEPLAYER STUFF ALLOWED!".

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    An MMO might not be the thing for you.
    How long have you been confused and stupid?

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    They never said that. If they really thought that there would be no solo content at all. They never would have allowed Torghast to be soloable.

    Talk about being insulting and condescending. Name calling makes people take you less seriously.

    Do it just like Torghast and the Mage Tower. Who says there has to be one bad guy or the same bad guy as the raids?

    Nobody ever said solo players should have access to raid gear. Stop with that dishonest strrawman.

    Give it normal raid gear, but at a lesser pace. This isn't hard.

    Raiders are still going to raid. M+ players are still going to do that. Those doing solo content were never doing the previous two to being with so it has no effect on the social aspect. Torghast certainly didn't.

    Which is why they do things like Mage Tower and Torgahst. If they look at solo play the way you claim they do, neither one would have been soloable. They would have required a group. The fact that there is solo content already in the game says they know that there is a market for it.

    Doesn't mean they were right. It can still be a mistake. They aren't mutually exclusive.
    You have clearly given the impression of, that you want sologames overtake the socialgames. As you see - there are more work on creating meaningful solocontent, than working and improving core fundamentals of WoW(finetuning raids, dungeons, classes etc.).

    I will advocate for that making the essensials of the game better, overweights any new feature(which always been problematic since WoD).

    We won't have any mage/torghast tower in DF. It's a strategic decision and I want to assume, that they know what they are doing. I simple believe, that they are done inventing new systems - and I love it.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-08-11 at 01:58 PM.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    It's 2022, imagine still thinking that "MMO" actually still means "NO SINGLEPLAYER STUFF ALLOWED!".
    They have single player it's been done amazing well in mage towers and decently well in visions. The problem this conversation always runs into is people want wow to be an entirely different genre or to start showering them in gear.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    An MMO might not be the thing for you.
    Not at at this aint everquest era this is 2022 modern mmos alot of game have solo progression 100% dragonflight will or die.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    It's 2022, imagine still thinking that "MMO" actually still means "NO SINGLEPLAYER STUFF ALLOWED!".
    Hell, MMOs weren't group-focused even in 2002.

    It was Everquest and WoW that started the whole "only grouping matters" concept and companies rode with it because those games were successful and they surmised that that's what people wanted. The MMO genre has been mostly garbage ever since.

    Really looking forward to Palia and playing in a persistent world again.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Solo instances do not belong in WoW. Progression for solo players should not exist. It's good that the current game tells you to go out and group with other players for progression. This is how MMOs should work. If you're playing a MMO for solo experiences you're playing the wrong fucking game. End of.
    I fully agree. Then i see the actual playerbase and it's mostly comprised of solo players unable to play in group (as in finding a group to stick with and actually collaborate long term) so they resort to boosts to actually achieve what they want from the game.

    The asking for solo content in the game to me is the shout of people who already play nearly exclusively solo and complain how the game played solo basically sucks (which i agree with). Obviously not everyone falls in the same category nor all players are equal but there are some string trends that have been forming across the years from Legion onwards and are shaping how the game is played by the majority of the people.

    EDIT: pugging with random people through M+ is solo progression to me. Since there's next to zero interaction between players it doesn't really change much from having 4 AI controlled characters join you most of the times. And that steams from the inablity of said players to actually partake in content as a group and not as "i am doing X and i need other Y players to do it, otherwise i would do it solo".
    You tried, and you failed. What have you learned? That's better not to try at all.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    people will rather level through way thats faster than through the one they enjoy, you think it will be different at endgame?
    most people will choose whatever is most effective, not whats most appealing
    No, power gamers will play the way that is most effective over most appealing. Not everyone is a power gamer.

    I am a power gamer and this is how I play. I don't pretend that the method I prefer is the pace that everyone plays at. All it takes is playing in a guild with casual players to know the wide spread of gamers that exist out there.

    Fact is, there are more people who treat WoW as a singleplayer experience than there are people who play it as a group-oriented MMO. Every expansion will see a huge spike in returning players, which immediately dies down once the singleplayer content (questing) is consumed. This cycle happens every expansion, and the devs have done relatively little to ever appeal to this huge demographic of casual solo-oriented fans.

    We know they exist, we know they always return, and we know they rarely stick around for dungeons and raid grinds. And for good reason because the only thing to do in WoW after questing is either PVP or Raiding. There is very little alternative end game content.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-08-11 at 04:07 PM.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Nope, you're wrong. FFXIV does it just fine.
    I'm a big FF and FFXIV fan and even I know the combat and linear progression in the mmo is a drag. you're forced through EVERY content update and expansion in order to get to endgame, whilst dealing with the 1.5 second global cooldown on all your abilities. after a while, it starts to bore a lot of people. most peoples' biggest gripe about the game is the linearity of the story and the rail you're stuck on to endgame bouncing between point A and B to talk to NPCs or type an emote like /search just to progress a story quest. the single player content in that game is its biggest weakpoint for most people. even the diehard fans in FCs I've been in pretty regularly complain about it. I just guess I don't understand why someone would want an online game to be singleplayer.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Forteofgray View Post
    I'm a big FF and FFXIV fan and even I know the combat and linear progression in the mmo is a drag. you're forced through EVERY content update and expansion in order to get to endgame, whilst dealing with the 1.5 second global cooldown on all your abilities. after a while, it starts to bore a lot of people. most peoples' biggest gripe about the game is the linearity of the story and the rail you're stuck on to endgame bouncing between point A and B to talk to NPCs or type an emote like /search just to progress a story quest. the single player content in that game is its biggest weakpoint for most people. even the diehard fans in FCs I've been in pretty regularly complain about it. I just guess I don't understand why someone would want an online game to be singleplayer.
    The content is so good you can spend $25 to skip it.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    The content is so good you can spend $25 to skip it.
    No fucking way I'm doing it twice, just like certain movies serve no point to watch a second time. If I level a alt I'm boosting

  16. #276
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    I'm going to agree (sort of). I think there should be a lot of content that works for solo players that also scales when someone has a friend or friends along with them. There really does need to be a category of current progression content that works well for groups larger than one and less than five. There's no reason that that content wouldn't work well for solo players too. That answers the "MMO is for groups" crowd and works fine for those that wish to play alone. It's not like Blizzard doesn't know how to do this. Shadowlands had some of this so it's pretty clear that they do and they should.

    Social gameplay should be social. Being thrown into a possibly hostile, possibly abusive group environment with total strangers that you are unlikely to ever meet up with again is the opposite of social. There's a distinction to make and Blizzard should start moving to make it.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-08-11 at 10:34 PM.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  17. #277
    So I'm currently logged into WOW, off-peak for Oceanic, trying to find something to do. Suppose I could join a NA group for keys, but prefer not to have the Latency issues... the few OCE groups that have popped up already have Healers or I've been declined (which is fine, I don't usually Pug so my IO is a bit low early season relying on guild groups).

    Anyway, Single Player or Solo content doesn't necessarily mean you want to play entirely Solo... it just gives you options. I'm probably going to set my mission tables then log out... if Torghast (for example) had rewards similar to Horrific visions, I'd have something to do during off-peak times.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Only if there is no gear rewards or only the last boss rewards a single piece once a week.
    Sounds like Visions.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  19. #279
    There is no way in hell they are going to not have real solo player content most likely a solo play feature is coming think M+ but for solo players.

  20. #280
    The many insecure gatekeepers in the game will never allow for single player content in wow as otherwise they cant pat themselves on the back for killing some nerfed boss 7 weeks into a tier. mage tower is a perfect example you can easily have another pillar of content in the game at the level of the highest difficulty (mythic raiding/high keys), but god forbid you get the same rewards as some mythic raider contributing 5% in a raid.

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