There needs to be more single player content

[Elbob]

It's not just about the mechanic - it's also about the frequency and execution. A good example would be Rygelon and Dark Eclipse. You have multiple people being affected constantly, thorough the whole fight, and mistakes can be made not only by the people affected (those having the debuff), but also by everyone else (mistakenly going into the portal and making it unavailable for someone who actually needs it). So the risk of a wipe grows exponentially, because there are countless chances during the fight to do something wrong. If you have a player who's slower to react, there are multiple chances for him to be affected; if you have someone lagging, there's a greater chance he will lag while being affected (because of the frequency of this mechanic). Etc. etc.

So just saying: "Look, bosses in the past also had one-shots!" is not enough. Those "checks" became more and more tight with time.

I agree that fights have gotten harder and have more expectations of players, so you have to remember you are comparing current wow players vs current mechanics against past wow players vs past mechanics. Rygelon is without a doubt one of the most demanding fights of personal responsibility but that mechanic is 90% of the fight. Entire strats are designed around making players with that ~8-10 debuff be able to find a hole to jump in. And even if one player can't find one it doesn't 1 shot the raid except on mythic. Being as the original quote I argued against specifically mentioned a higher barrier to entry I'm not sure if talking about the 2nd last boss on mythic is really equivalent.

If your argument is that mythic raiding is way harder than previous raiding and is loaded with more pass fail checks on the raid(personal and raid wide) you are right. But at the heroic level.... ehh I still think the increase is only comparable to the increase in general player skill.

[Echo of Soul]

Or you could just go play a game like this and not ask to break the progression system of a mmo that cant handle that..

I am, I play FF14 where this exact system exists. I'd just like to have it back in WoW too because removing it was the stupidest thing they ever did.

[Tentim]

I am, I play FF14 where this exact system exists. I'd just like to have it back in WoW too because removing it was the stupidest thing they ever did.

You cant remove what never existed... there was visions that had some fairly major issues then choreghast.

[Relapses]

Mmm yes. So I can kill stuff faster and have time do do other things or play other games.

Open YT and search for D3 Rifts in 2 minutes. That is roughly what should happen while I roam in ZM with ZM max level gear.

Oh, and also maxing ZM gear takes 1 month if you take it REALLY slow, what about the rest of the season? Alts?

I mean, somebody who's maxed all the open world benefits in ZM will likely clear things faster than a Mythic-geared raider without these benefits which is exactly the intention behind making a system that makes you stronger while you do that content. It may not be D3 rifts in 2 minutes fast but literally nobody is doing that so that seems like an unreasonable request.

[Echo of Soul]

You cant remove what never existed... there was visions that had some fairly major issues then choreghast.

Tell me you haven't played the game since 2005 without telling me you haven't played the game since 2005.

[Tentim]

Tell me you haven't played the game since 2005 without telling me you haven't played the game since 2005.

WoW isn't a single player game at end game... I doubt people are interested in it becoming one. Why not honestly fuck off to a single player game instead of turning every game genre into the same one?

[Triceron]

WoW isn't a single player game are end game... I doubt people are interested in it becoming one. Why not honestly fuck off to a single player game instead of turning every game genre into the same one?

Because there are far more people who treat WoW as a singleplayer experience than there are who play it as intended in groups. It's just that exactly what you're saying is already happening. They fuck off after the first 3 months and leave entire servers 'dead' as a result.

[Tentim]

Because there are far more people who treat WoW as a singleplayer experience than there are who play it as intended in groups. It's just that exactly what you're saying is already happening. They fuck off after the first 3 months and leave entire servers 'dead' as a result.

Then the system works

[Triceron]

Then the system works

No one has ever said it didn't.

We're saying it could be improved.

[Tentim]

No one has ever said it didn't.

We're saying it could be improved.

No that's a terrible idea. People who level only don't care about gear.

You are suggesting fucking up the end game for zero benefit.

[chiddie]

No that's a terrible idea. People who level only don't care about gear.

You are suggesting fucking up the end game for zero benefit.

Honestly I do care. Since the combat while leveling is brain dead, I would rather prefer double the quests with instagibbed mobs than the actual leveling structure (I’m talking about the current exp - not SL in particular, whatever the current exp is - ) that makes you take ages to kill mobs for basically no reasons.

[Triceron]

No that's a terrible idea. People who level only don't care about gear.

You are suggesting fucking up the end game for zero benefit.

Nah, you're just overreacting.

I mean I could just as much the same people who group don't care about singleplayer content, so they have nothing to complain about. What is being fucked up for them? Nothing.

And looky looky - I said it could be improved and the first thing you think about is what? 'Mythic Gear for everybody for free' ?. What a fucking joke dude.

[TbouncerT]

Nah, you're just overreacting.

I mean I could just as much the same people who group don't care about singleplayer content, so they have nothing to complain about. What is being fucked up for them? Nothing.

And looky looky - I said it could be improved and the first thing you think about is what? 'Mythic Gear for everybody for free' ?. What a fucking joke dude.

No thank you, the game is the way it is now because people like you.

[arkanon]

says everyone, if you ask around the majority of players and their friends have 1-3 char
The +10 alts crowd you see are actually a vocal minority who's very delusional and keep asking for stupid stuff in these forums

It changed very quickly from 1-2 to 1-3. If "everyone" agrees, why does the other person say 1-2 but you say 1-3? And why did you make the extreme leap from 1-3 characters to 11? what about 4, 5, 6, etc? You are confusing your personal experience with actual data and facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Says everyone who is casual.

Your arrogance is astonishing. What gives you the right to speak for ALL casuals? Most casuals i play with have far MORE characters they play compared to the hardcore people i play with.

Its not "bait" its me pointing out that you shouldnt be speaking about the difficulty of content you admitted to NEVER attempting even once. You dont even seem to realise how it scaled, it was actually very doable without the bis legos, myself and MANY others did most or all of them without ever having the bis legos. You would know this if you had ever actually tried.

[Triceron]

No thank you, the game is the way it is now because people like you.

So how is it the way it is now because of people like me when I haven't been subbed since Cataclysm?

Man, I'm doing so much damage to the game and I don't even have to do anything!

[VMSmith]

A relatively simple solution that would work for everyone is to create a gear stat that applies to specific content. i.e. a stat called "Raid" that gives +whatever only when you're in raids and only comes from raid content, a stat called "PvP" that gives +whatever only when you're in PvP and only comes from PvP content, and do the same for "Dungeon" and "World". That way everyone can have a gearing progression set to whatever timeframe will keep them busy for the bulk of the patch and everyone only needs to do that content that they particularly enjoy because the gear is mostly meh outside of its specific content.

The drawbacks to this are:

1) Multiple gear sets if you enjoy multiple types of content. Honestly, I see this as a minuscule problem that people can just deal with.

2) Not being immediately overpowered in, for example, PvP because you are a great Mythic raider. Some people will cry about this, but fuck them. If a Mythic raider wants to steamroll people in PvP then they need to PvP for the gear rather than kill pixel dragons.

3) Blizzard would be unhappy because they couldn't force people into the content that they don't enjoy and it would expose the lack of interest in certain types of content ... likely Blizzard's preferred content. This is the reason IMO that this solution would probably never be implemented.

[Tentim]

Nah, you're just overreacting.

I mean I could just as much the same people who group don't care about singleplayer content, so they have nothing to complain about. What is being fucked up for them? Nothing.

And looky looky - I said it could be improved and the first thing you think about is what? 'Mythic Gear for everybody for free' ?. What a fucking joke dude.

Because its how every suggestion ends... read the thread

[Triceron]

Because its how every suggestion ends... read the thread

Then go reply to every one of those suggestions.

I never implied any SIngleplayer content getting any gear that is better or equal to anything found in Group content. I don't think it's even necessary.

Having gear progression follow a separate branch, like how PVP gear is handled, would work just fine. Have Solo-specific stats attached, and that's all that you need to keep things separate. Ilvls don't even have to line up.

Or better yet, have Solo-oriented content be directly tied in with Crafting, and offering special mats that can be found in Solo raids to craft gear that is specific to the content rather than a traditional Loot-per-boss system. Offering a different reward system for Solo play that works for solo players would make the most sense. That would allow Solo players to make use of crafting orders and promote trading and keep relevant to the online community through the economy.

[chiddie]

I mean, somebody who's maxed all the open world benefits in ZM will likely clear things faster than a Mythic-geared raider without these benefits which is exactly the intention behind making a system that makes you stronger while you do that content. It may not be D3 rifts in 2 minutes fast but literally nobody is doing that so that seems like an unreasonable request.

Dude I won’t clear anything faster because mythic level gear is so much higher ilvl wise that will overcompensate by far the lack of bonuses.

It’s better than nothing? Yes. Is it satisfying? So and so, also because after you gather that gear, you can make no use of it since continue to farm dailies in ZM is totally useless.

[Bullfred]

Ah yes, that's why I play a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game, to do singleplayer content.

I think this game might not be for you, chief.