There needs to be more single player content

[Ashana Darkmoon]

By making a fun game that doesn't need numerical stat gain incentives to be worth playing. It's a game, not a job.

But it's also a business and this is what makes money and why basically every genre has stolen rpg progression

[Triceron]

people dont want solo content.

look, heres a great way to understand it. look at wikipedia vs britannica online. They are both encyclopedias. Britannica online offers a group of editors and superior experts who curate content and filter it down to the masses for consumption.

Wikipedia completely destroyed Britannica online. Its not close. This is because most people crave that social experience. It energizes them.

Bad example because the user experiences are the same between the two, with Wikipedia being 'easier to use'. Crowdsourcing doesn't change the user experience. Any regular Joe just types in what they want and they get the information they need. There's no social impact whatsoever unless you're one of the few who cares to contribute or edit Wikipedia.

It would be a social difference if say every time you used Wikipedia, you had to find 24-39 other people who are also searching the same keyword. I'm sure you could imagine how backwards the experience would be.

[Lolites]

And yet only 12% of the players completed the last raid tier. Including LFR.

actualy 21% by YOUR source... which is almost twice as much as 4th (of 8) layer of jailers gauntlet - you know, the SOLOABLE content that wasnt required, and reward "just" mount...
maybe if you stop pulling numbers out of your ass people might take your opinion a bit more serious...

[Kokolums]

Yeah. 60% play mainly solo in MMORPGs. At least if you ask one of the lead developers of Asherons Call. Well, and he also worked on WoW.

and the millions that left dont play wow at all!

the current wow playerbase is a tiny fraction of what it was. you cant keep polling only those people to try to attract more people.

lets say im pizza hut. everything is made fresh in the store. then in 2003, i swap to frozen ingredigents shipped from a central location. the bread has turned half the time. the toppings have lost their flavor. i lose a tremendous amount of my customers. but the people who remain, 60% say they really like the pizza. i would be a moron to claim i am doing a good job with my restaurant.

[Celement]

and the millions that left dont play wow at all!

the current wow playerbase is a tiny fraction of what it was. you cant keep polling only those people to try to attract more people.

lets say im pizza hut. everything is made fresh in the store. then in 2003, i swap to frozen ingredigents shipped from a central location. the bread has turned half the time. the toppings have lost their flavor. i lose a tremendous amount of my customers. but the people who remain, 60% say they really like the pizza. i would be a moron to claim i am doing a good job with my restaurant.

WoW never ever had what you are suggesting

[choom]

For the long-time players still playing WoW today, I don't think it matters how good or bad the game is or becomes. Over 15 years the game has done irretrievable damage to their brain wiring and psychology and to undo that deep conditioning would probably be a traumatic event.

[Mardux]

and the millions that left dont play wow at all!

the current wow playerbase is a tiny fraction of what it was. you cant keep polling only those people to try to attract more people.

lets say im pizza hut. everything is made fresh in the store. then in 2003, i swap to frozen ingredigents shipped from a central location. the bread has turned half the time. the toppings have lost their flavor. i lose a tremendous amount of my customers. but the people who remain, 60% say they really like the pizza. i would be a moron to claim i am doing a good job with my restaurant.

They always claim this but refuse to provide reliable sources. Wonder why that is.

[Celement]

For the long-time players still playing WoW today, I don't think it matters how good or bad the game is or becomes. Over 15 years the game has done irretrievable damage to their brain wiring and psychology and to undo that deep conditioning would probably be a traumatic event.

Or people enjoy different genres of games and trying to make every game identical is kinda moronic.

Why not just play a game you enjoy rather then complaining that a game doesn't redesign itself for your personal taste?

[dragonflight10]

Or people enjoy different genres of games and trying to make every game identical is kinda moronic.

Why not just play a game you enjoy rather then complaining that a game doesn't redesign itself for your personal taste?

This 100%
it baffles me how those people think that their singular ideas and personal taste should be implemented into the game? like how can they be serious about that lol

[Echo of Soul]

actualy 21% by YOUR source... which is almost twice as much as 4th (of 8) layer of jailers gauntlet - you know, the SOLOABLE content that wasnt required, and reward "just" mount...
maybe if you stop pulling numbers out of your ass people might take your opinion a bit more serious...

That's pretty God damn depressing. Their flagship game mode and 80% of the playerbase don't even touch it. They REALLY should focus their efforts elsewhere

[Celement]

That's pretty God damn depressing. Their flagship game mode and 80% of the playerbase don't even touch it. They REALLY should focus their efforts elsewhere

Why?

I'm so tired of these derpy takes. The majority of players dont make it past level ten by this backwards logic the game should only have 3 spells per class and everything dies in 2 hits.

Not everyone needs to stay subbed 24/7 nor should they.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Why?

I'm so tired of these derpy takes. The majority of players dont make it past level ten by this backwards logic the game should only have 3 spells per class and everything dies in 2 hits.

Not everyone needs to stay subbed 24/7 nor should they.

I again go back to that Mass Effect thing from years ago where a tiny % of players actually complete games. I'm sure that's still true, but it's also a problem with DLC - the number of people who will buy it outside of a bundle pack is tightly constrained if most people never finish it in the first place.

Like everything else, that 80/20 principle is probably pretty close! And designing for that 80 is foolish

[Celement]

I again go back to that Mass Effect thing from years ago where a tiny % of players actually complete games. I'm sure that's still true, but it's also a problem with DLC - the number of people who will buy it outside of a bundle pack is tightly constrained if most people never finish it in the first place.

Like everything else, that 80/20 principle is probably pretty close! And designing for that 80 is foolish

I mean they tried for years. Artifact power was a desperate effort to keep levelers around since they can keep leveling in a sense.

All it did was piss off end game players though.

[Echo of Soul]

I mean they tried for years. Artifact power was a desperate effort to keep levelers around since they can keep leveling in a sense.

That's not why they did it and I dare you to find an official quote saying that they did.

[chaoticcrono]

Itt are a bunch of anti social ass hats who are so unlikable they want to force other people to play with them because if given a choice no one would.

If wow focused on making quality content and made everything doable solo with the option to group the game would see sub levels surpass lich king era.

If you want people to play with you maybe try being a person people want to play with rather than insist that people be forced to do so.

[chiddie]

If they actually added solo progression almost no one who wants it would actually be able to defeat it, which is part of the problem Even visions ended up with tons of boosting because people couldn't do them.

People couldn’t do them because they were poorly tuned and had a timer.

Of course it Blizzard’s idea of “difficulty” always include a stupid timer and zero tuning, yes, most scrubs won’t even touch the content.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll just say one thing. If you could play fully true solo, your downtime will be next to zero and naturally be much much faster. Just think about all the time you spend trying to join a m+ group through the dungeon finder.

This means that a true solo progression would need to be artificially staggered/timegated. People would just nolife it otherwise and then complain they have notiing to do.

Zero downtime is the reason I love ARPGS like Diablo and hate playing in groups. Stopped playing M+ also because I couldn’t afford wasting half of my time searching for a group.

[Biomega]

Of course it Blizzard’s idea of “difficulty” always include a stupid timer and zero tuning, yes, most scrubs won’t even touch the content.

I also generally hate timers, however they're a bit of a necessary evil if you want to actually pressure people into performance. Without timers, not only would extremely defensive play be rewarded disproportionately, it'd also encourage things like AFKing for cooldowns etc. which lead to toxic gameplay loops where people feel they can't progress until their X minutes are up.

It's very difficult to challenge DPS unless you actually force them to do good damage in some way.

[chiddie]

Or people enjoy different genres of games and trying to make every game identical is kinda moronic.

Why not just play a game you enjoy rather then complaining that a game doesn't redesign itself for your personal taste?

For the same reason I didn’t really cope that much with Command and Conquer serie but I loved Age of Empires serie: the environment. I like WoW fantasy style, I don’t like the Witcher fantasy style or Final Fantasy fantasy style.

That’s why I would just love a single player RPG based on Warcraft universe.

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I also generally hate timers, however they're a bit of a necessary evil if you want to actually pressure people into performance. Without timers, not only would extremely defensive play be rewarded disproportionately, it'd also encourage things like AFKing for cooldowns etc. which lead to toxic gameplay loops where people feel they can't progress until their X minutes are up.

It's very difficult to challenge DPS unless you actually force them to do good damage in some way.

D3 rifts do have timers but I really never in 10 years thought for ONE time “damn if only there wasn’t a timer”, even when pushing high GRs. And WITHOUT EVEN NOTICING you are naturally pushed gently to try and finish them in the fastest way possible. I dare say I LOVE those timers because every time I beat my previous time I feel sooo satisfied. If you take too much you can just review your build and/or lower the difficulty level, you’ll only get less rewards (not lower level rewards, LESS rewards).

This happens when timers are designed in a good way and cope well with gameplay. When the design is poor and timers are there only to punish, you end up with horrible visions.

[Relapses]

This happens when timers are designed in a good way and cope well with gameplay. When the design is poor and timers are there only to punish, you end up with horrible visions.

Timers are timers my dude. You just prefer one game to the other and that's fine... but don't pretend that half a dozen isn't six of another.

[chiddie]

Timers are timers my dude. You just prefer one game to the other and that's fine... but don't pretend that half a dozen isn't six of another.

A timer is a timer but not all the timers serve the same purpose.

WoW timers are there to emphasize fails. D3 timers are more “ehi, try to beat it but no big worries if you fail it”.