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  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    80%? Where is the source?

    Why are you doing this man?
    Well, we talked about 20% of the players completing the final raid tier. 80% of the players did not.

    Because they do not like the raid, or raids in general, i assume. As you do not like soccer. You are probably one in a million that bought fifa while not liking soccer.

    We talk about 80 of 100 players that did not complete the final raid.

    And if we talk about total numbers quitting the game completely, regarding Superdata/Nielssen around 40% of WoWs players quitted within the first two months after wows release.

    Even if you thought i referred to players that quit the game rather than those who do not raid it would be 40% within two months, which is a horrible testament of blizzards incompetence. How many quitted up to now? Is there even a million of players left playing this game regularily nowadays? When WoW had a total of more than 100 million players?

    When a new expac sells 10,000,000 copies and 4 ,000,000 players quit within the first 60 days? Because they have no endgame?
    Last edited by cantrip; Yesterday at 08:56 PM.
    "Ion and team own WoW, not me" - Mike Ybarra, president of Blizzard entertainment
    https://twitter.com/Qwik/status/1432432835873296384

  2. #742
    Even if that is true, you have no idea why they quit so the argument doesn't matter

    Like, just admit that it is what you want - that's totally fine!! Here:

    Honest: I want this content or I won't purchase the product. I don't care or even know if it is good for the game, it's what I want!

    Dishonest: My desires are the best path forward because of Blizzard for :Reasons:

    That's it! Super simple, and now it is an opinion rather than a declaration of unknowable BS.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Even if that is true, you have no idea why they quit so the argument doesn't matter

    Like, just admit that it is what you want - that's totally fine!! Here:

    Honest: I want this content or I won't purchase the product. I don't care or even know if it is good for the game, it's what I want!

    Dishonest: My desires are the best path forward because of Blizzard for :Reasons:

    That's it! Super simple, and now it is an opinion rather than a declaration of unknowable BS.
    In a vacuum that's the entirety of this thread. In reality, 30+ pages of this thread's discussion have been about certain players' insistence that if Blizzard had more single player content, fewer people would quit. And if fewer player quit, then the game is better and everybody's happy and then we all dance happily into the sunset with gumdrops and lollipops in hand. (Please pay no attention to players who quit because the game is now a single player MMO. They don't matter because there are fewer of them and Blizzard is a business and businesses only care about money.)

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Even if that is true, you have no idea why they quit so the argument doesn't matter
    Well, i am one of the quitters. And i know why i quit. Because the game simply does not adress me.

    You talked about life situations you think lead to that many quitters. You still have to tell me which life situation leads to 4 million of 10 million players quitting within the first 60 days?

    To me it is clear which reason those players have. They level up, 17% of them not even up to endgame level, have no gameplay left, and quit.

    For me that is the logical conclusion. For you, it is some other reason.. like.. moon phases? All those millions of players suddenly having a lot of real life issues? I mean.. really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Dishonest: My desires are the best path forward because of Blizzard for :Reasons:
    I do not ingore the numbers only because you believe it would be dishonest. The number of players quitting within the first weeks after they purchased a sub based game does matter, and no, you obviously have no logical reason other than "assumed life situation".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    In a vacuum that's the entirety of this thread. In reality, 30+ pages of this thread's discussion have been about certain players' insistence that if Blizzard had more single player content, fewer people would quit.
    Simply gameplay that adresses them. Why do 83% of the players level up to endgame level just to witness the literal mass exodus?

    I think they would not quit if they had endgame. And while i am not sure if solo player gameplay would be the only solution, i can tell you which gameplay does NOT adress the masses, and that is premade group raids and rated battlegrounds.

    For me it is logical that blizzard should focus on gameplay for the masses to actually even try to adress them. As they failed with tries in the last expacs and managed to literally turn the game into a level up rpg for most it is time to replace those in charge which obviously have a premade group bias, especially Ion Hazzikostas as game director, who did not know anything else than mythic raids and theorycrafting and encounter design during his career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    And if fewer player quit, then the game is better and everybody's happy and then we all dance happily into the sunset with gumdrops and lollipops in hand. (Please pay no attention to players who quit because the game is now a single player MMO. They don't matter because there are fewer of them and Blizzard is a business and businesses only care about money.)
    As if you lost anything if solo players were adressed as well. Noone is talking about removing your precious gameplay, it is simply about adding gameplay for those you normally sell boosts to. Instead of cash cows, casual gamers should have real gameplay. And no, that are no mythic raids or high end mythic+ runs.
    Last edited by cantrip; Yesterday at 09:14 PM.
    "Ion and team own WoW, not me" - Mike Ybarra, president of Blizzard entertainment
    https://twitter.com/Qwik/status/1432432835873296384

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Well, i am one of the quitters. And i know why i quit. Because the game simply does not adress me.

    You talked about life situations you think lead to that many quitters. You still have to tell me which life situation leads to 4 million of 10 million players quitting within the first 60 days?

    To me it is clear which reason those players have. They level up, 17% of them not even up to endgame level, have no gameplay left, and quit.

    For me that is the logical conclusion. For you, it is some other reason.. like.. moon phases? All those millions of players suddenly having a lot of real life issues? I mean.. really?



    I do not ingore the numbers only because you believe it would be dishonest. The number of players quitting within the first weeks after they purchased a sub based game does matter, and no, you obviously have no logical reason other than "assumed life situation".

    - - - Updated - - -



    Simply gameplay that adresses them. Why do 83% of the players level up to endgame level just to witness the literal mass exodus?

    I think they would not quit if they had endgame. And while i am not sure if solo player gameplay would be the only solution, i can tell you which gameplay does NOT adress the masses, and that is premade group raids and rated battlegrounds.

    For me it is logical that blizzard should focus on gameplay for the masses to actually even try to adress them. As they failed with tries in the last expacs and managed to literally turn the game into a level up rpg for most it is time to replace those in charge which obviously have a premade group bias, especially Ion Hazzikostas as game director, who did not know anything else than mythic raids and theorycrafting and encounter design during his career.



    As if you lost anything if solo players were adressed as well. Noone is talking about removing your precious gameplay, it is simply about adding gameplay for those you normally sell boosts to. Instead of cash cows, casual gamers should have real gameplay. And no, that are no mythic raids or high end mythic+ runs.
    If so many people is arguing AGAINST you - then, you have to be honest with yourself. First of all - stop sounding like you represent the lost millions and millions of potential players. This proves that you are not having the viewpoint of the majority.

    You often come up with honest input and you have a logical start - but it all ends up in some emotional nonsense. Let's cut the emotional part off.

    So - we both know, that 80% is nonense(it has no reliability and validity - you can't use it in any professional setting).
    This leaves you with no argument.
    Last edited by HansOlo; Yesterday at 09:46 PM.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    In a vacuum that's the entirety of this thread. In reality, 30+ pages of this thread's discussion have been about certain players' insistence that if Blizzard had more single player content, fewer people would quit. And if fewer player quit, then the game is better and everybody's happy and then we all dance happily into the sunset with gumdrops and lollipops in hand. (Please pay no attention to players who quit because the game is now a single player MMO. They don't matter because there are fewer of them and Blizzard is a business and businesses only care about money.)
    I'm more confused why these people don't fuck off to games that offer what they want. Are they simply invested in the franchise?

    I refuse to believe it's the current story line that gripes them.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I'm more confused why these people don't fuck off to games that offer what they want. Are they simply invested in the franchise?

    I refuse to believe it's the current story line that gripes them.
    1. Played forever and is established...a lot of people have trouble just abandoning something they've done for literal years. A lot of folks have issues starting new MMOs cause then they have to start from square 1 again when they can go back to wow where they don't have to.

    2. Sunk cost. At this point someone who may of been subbed since the beginning have already dropped like over $5k on this game alone give or take...leaving might make them feel they dropped all that for nothing

    3. No other options: Let's face it... There isn't any game like wow and as hard as people look for "it's wow but better" they just struggle to find...even half this thread who is basically looking for Skyrim with Trade chat

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    1. Played forever and is established...a lot of people have trouble just abandoning something they've done for literal years. A lot of folks have issues starting new MMOs cause then they have to start from square 1 again when they can go back to wow where they don't have to.

    2. Sunk cost. At this point someone who may of been subbed since the beginning have already dropped like over $5k on this game alone give or take...leaving might make them feel they dropped all that for nothing

    3. No other options: Let's face it... There isn't any game like wow and as hard as people look for "it's wow but better" they just struggle to find...even half this thread who is basically looking for Skyrim with Trade chat
    points 1 and 2 are the exact same thing....but anyway, you dont consider Final Fantasy to be another option? If not, what is it missing that wow has?
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    points 1 and 2 are the exact same thing....but anyway, you dont consider Final Fantasy to be another option? If not, what is it missing that wow has?
    I do others don't...this isn't me specifically

    Final Fantasy lacks a lot of the PvP options, class cusmiziation, raid difficulty, more actually open worldness, and the more Western style animation..if I learned anything from MMO Champion there's a nice chunk of people who absolutely LOATHE anything remotely anime. That's why people want the token system from FF14 to come to wow because they want the parts they like from 14 to come to the aesthetic they prefer it's the same thing like asking for Mortal Kombat Fatalities to be in Street Fighter or good animation to be in Mortal Kombat
    Last edited by Mysterymask; Yesterday at 11:55 PM.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    points 1 and 2 are the exact same thing....but anyway, you dont consider Final Fantasy to be another option? If not, what is it missing that wow has?
    It's not really all that like wow tbh, other than the very basic structure. Everything from aesthetic to story to game systems to culture is very different, just like ESO or SWTOR or whatever else.

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    points 1 and 2 are the exact same thing....but anyway, you dont consider Final Fantasy to be another option? If not, what is it missing that wow has?
    Does it have playable Druids that turn into bears? Or playable undead?

    WoW offers a lot of aesthetic that few other MMO's (of similar quality) allow you to play as.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    1. Played forever and is established...a lot of people have trouble just abandoning something they've done for literal years. A lot of folks have issues starting new MMOs cause then they have to start from square 1 again when they can go back to wow where they don't have to.

    2. Sunk cost. At this point someone who may of been subbed since the beginning have already dropped like over $5k on this game alone give or take...leaving might make them feel they dropped all that for nothing

    3. No other options: Let's face it... There isn't any game like wow and as hard as people look for "it's wow but better" they just struggle to find...even half this thread who is basically looking for Skyrim with Trade chat
    I guess I don't get it. Unless you are one of the few people who play wow professionally or are paid to play it you don't lose anything. I enjoy wow but once I have CE I go play other games outside the one night clear for mounts. I didn't even play bfa when I saw how garbage azerite traits were.

    If they are not having fun wouldn't it make more sense to take one of those actual different games? I don't play FF online because I found it to easy but I didn't go to forums and ask them to remake it into a harder game.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Does it have playable Druids that turn into bears? Or playable undead?

    WoW offers a lot of aesthetic that few other MMO's (of similar quality) allow you to play as.
    As does FF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    As does FF.
    So yes it has Druids that turn into bears and playable Undead?

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I guess I don't get it. Unless you are one of the few people who play wow professionally or are paid to play it you don't lose anything. I enjoy wow but once I have CE I go play other games outside the one night clear for mounts. I didn't even play bfa when I saw how garbage azerite traits were.

    If they are not having fun wouldn't it make more sense to take one of those actual different games? I don't play FF online because I found it to easy but I didn't go to forums and ask them to remake it into a harder game.
    There's also the very real possibility they just screaming...

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So yes it has Druids that turn into bears and playable Undead?
    This isnt hard to understand, im not sure why you are confused. Your statement is that WoW has some unique aspects, aesthetics, classes etc, and my response is SO DOES FF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This isnt hard to understand, im not sure why you are confused. Your statement is that WoW has some unique aspects, aesthetics, classes etc, and my response is SO DOES FF.
    I was being specific about Druids and Undead as those aesthetics. And you said so does FF.

    You decided to cherry pick the statement out of context for whatever reason. Stop being dumb.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I was being specific about Druids and Undead as those aesthetics. And you said so does FF.

    You decided to cherry pick the statement out of context for whatever reason. Stop being dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    WoW offers a lot of aesthetic that few other MMO's (of similar quality) allow you to play as.
    If you cant understand this is what i was referencing, then you are beyond hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by b1gh3x View Post
    And not just world quests and dailies, but rather, meaningful and challenging content that can progress your character through out the entirety of a season.

    I envision a solo end game content experience, much like Monster Hunter or Dark Souls/Elden Ring.

    As it stands, there is currently very little reason to log on, outside your weekly m+/raid times. There is just nothing to do.
    As i got older i prefer to do single player content with mmo elements. I don't want to be forced to interact with other players unless i want to.

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